Are my fish ok?

Discussion in 'Freshwater Beginners' started by greenbeanette, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. greenbeanetteValued MemberMember

    Ok, so I really need some input here.

    I have 7 rasboras in quarantine after seeing possible fungus on 2-3 of their mouths. I treated with Jungle Fungus Guard (columnaris), which did nothing. I then treated with API Fungus Cure.

    The API Fungus Cure treatment is supposed to be done today. But the affected harlequins still have a white ball on the their lower lip. However, it doesn't seem to be spreading to the healthy ones and all 7 are active and otherwise normal. No sunken bellies either, so I guess they are eating.

    Can I put them in the main tank? Do I treat again? Maybe with something different?

  2. jerilovesfrogsFishlore VIPMember

    good job for putting them in a qt tank. i had some cories with that white cotton fungus on the mouth/tail....they didn't live. no treatment worked either. not saying yours will die...but possible. i'd not put them in the main tank. maybe do a water change....then one the next day as well. the only thing i can think of doing, is water changes. hope they make it...

  3. greenbeanetteValued MemberMember

    Well they were in the main tank for the first 2 days, then I saw that and moved them :-/ I've had them for 12 days now, if it was mouth fungus (columnaris) wouldn't they be dropping like flies? I just don't know, it's weird because I don't get why the meds don't do anything.

    How long did your cories live for? Did they all get sick?

  4. jerilovesfrogsFishlore VIPMember

    i am pretty sure there are different types of fungus besides columnaris. i forget what the white cotton kind is called. i'm trying to think how long they lived. it was 2 years ago. i think i had four or five and all died but one. however, i still have that one. :) he is an agasizzi, and has a false julii friend...along with albino friends. they didn't live a long time once they got that fungus though.
  5. greenbeanetteValued MemberMember

    Ok, thanks for your input :) I guess I'll give them a couple more days (no meds) and see if they start looking bad. The affected ones have been like this for almost two weeks now, so I'm not sure its killing them? All of them look otherwise normal.

    I'm thinking maybe if it isn't contagious, they can just go back in the main tank.
  6. bowcrazyWell Known MemberMember

    Columnaris is a highly fatal bacterial infection and can be quite contagous so I personally would keep them in the QT for the time being and keep up the treatment. It is most commonly found in warmer waters (77 to 90 degrees). I start my treatment by lowering the tanks temperature to the lower 70s.

    A treatment product need to include Potassium permangante or Terramycin. The quicker the treatment is started the higher the chance of recovery. Normally the treatment costs are a lot more than the cost of replacing the fish but I always try.
  7. psalm18.2Fishlore LegendMember

    QT fish that appear sick should stay in the QT for a few weeks to be sure. Make sure all evidence of disease is gone before re-entry into main tank.
  8. MD AngelsWell Known MemberMember

    Definitely keep them in the q tank - until a) the symptoms of disease go away and stay away for an additional week, or b) they die.

    It sounds like columnaris (cotton mouth disease), as it describes what your fish have perfectly. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is the length of time they have already had this problem. Columnaris can kill rapidly, even overnight.

    I don't really like API medications and jungle stuff is junk IMO, so its not too surprising nothing helped (mardel products are the best, IME). I would keep up with daily water changes and only return to the meds option if things get worse.

    I found this link after searching for white balls on fishes mouths. . . I think you'll find it helpful :)

    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  9. greenbeanetteValued MemberMember

    Ok, thanks guys. I'll keep them in quarantine. I've tried a full treatment of Jungle Fungus Guard (sodium chloride, potassium chloride, methylene blue, acriflavine) which was supposed to treat coulmnaris. Then I tried a full treatment of API Fungus Clear(Victoria green and acriflavine) which is suppose to treat both fungus and columnaris.

    If it is either columnaris or fungus, wouldn't one of these meds had done something? I also have Maracyn Plus I could try?

    MD Angels- its seems maybe it's nothing to worry about? I also found this thread from early this year. It looks exactly like that except is on the bottom lip.

    So if it's fungus, why didn't API Fungus Cure do anything at all?
  10. Wendy LubianetskyWell Known MemberMember

    I am going to probably get in trouble by some of the other members for suggesting this, because I am a true believer and some others think this cure is snake oil, but here goes. Get a small bottle of PIMAmix and a small bottle of MELAfix and mix them together in equal portions. These are totally herbal liquids made from tea tree oils and basil tree oils (I think Basil). It smells awesome and it can't do any harm. Treat your qt as directed. Now, you can ADD this to other treatments. It does not interfere with any other treatment and it does not interfere with your cycle. But if you have treated and it is not better ADDing this cannot hurt. I have treated a lot of ailments including fin rot, unknown fungi, and misc other with this course and it has worked wonders for me.:;bn
  11. jdhefModeratorModerator Member

    Wendy, I don't see any reason you would get in worst some may disagree. Personally, I have no opinion one way or the other since I have no experiance with either product. But if you have had success with using those products, and it isn't harmful in any way, why not post it?

    This forum should be a place where idea's are exchanged and sometimes debated. But that's how knowledge is fine long as everyone is polite.

    Now I do want to add one warning to this advice. There is some controversy about using melafix and primafix with labrenyth(spelling?) fish (fish that breath air form the surface such as betta's and gouramis and probably others). It is thought that the clove oil contained in those products can coat the labrenyth organ causing difficulty breathing. I think there is a sticky thread about this in the Betta Forum.
  12. cameronpalteValued MemberMember

    Just a small side not if you have another tank, move the ones that are healthy to another quarintine tank so if they don't have the disease yet, they won't get it, which can work a lot better. As for your other fish I'll let a fish lore VIP take care of this.
  13. jerilovesfrogsFishlore VIPMember

    i wouldn't move healthy fish around...unless something about them seems off. you can't have a qt jammed full of fish just in case of 'what if'. i'd just keep an eye on the main tank for any signs of disease....then move them to the qt if necessary.

    good luck :)
  14. sirdarksolFishlore LegendMember

    Agreed with Jeri on moving fish.

    As for the Pimafix and Melafix, you're not going to get in trouble. Even if you suggested actual snake-oil products (like Cycle) the worst that would happen is someone will disagree with you.
    Now, I am going to point out a few things about what you've said.
    "Herbal" does not equal "safe." Melaleuca oil is toxic. Also, in insufficient concentration, it can actually strengthen a bacterial colony, killing the weaker cells and making the stronger ones more resistant not only to melaleuca but also to other antibiotics. It certainly does not mean it can't interfere with other treatments. I'm taking St John's Wort (an herbal supplement). There is a pretty long list of meds that St John's Wort will mess with. In some cases, the results of mixing meds with the supplement can be near deadly. Melaleuca and clove oil are unlikely to react negatively with other meds, but that doesn't mean there aren't some meds out there that will react badly.
    And I still strongly suggest going by the instructions on the bottle and starting with one or the other (one of them does better with external infections like this... start with that) and only using the mix if one or the other doesn't work. Even API says that you should only use the mix if a dose of one of them doesn't work.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  15. greenbeanetteValued MemberMember

    Would it be wise to do another round of API Fungus cure? I'm not sure I'm comfortable have pima/mela fix around when I have a betta.

    I have 7 harlequins in qt, only 3 are showing symptoms though. But all came from the same tank at petsmart and could have something going on.
  16. sirdarksolFishlore LegendMember

    Is the betta in the same tank as the harlequins? If not, there's no worry. If it is, then you can easily use Pimafix. Melafix is the one that is easy to OD labyrinth fish.
    If the API Fungus Cure didn't work the first time, you probably want to try something else, since the infection may have a resistance to the Fungus Cure. If it's columnaris, you want to use Maracyn-Two (Maracyn works on gram-positive bacteria, while columnaris is gram-negative). Also, you probably want to follow up with Maracyn, as the columnaris can leave the fish susceptible to secondary infections.
    If it's a fungal infection, you'll want to use an anti-fungal. Honestly, Pimafix and Melafix are both excellent options (as mentioned above, avoid Melafix if there are labyrinth fish in the tank). Or you can try another anti-fungal. Last resort, if nothing else works, you could use salt.
  17. greenbeanetteValued MemberMember

    Ok, I'll look into getting some pimafix. I have Maracyn Plus, should I try that? I think its fungus, since no one seems to be meeting their demise, but I could use it to treat for columnaris, just in case that's what it is?
  18. greenbeanetteValued MemberMember

    So update:

    I decided to treat with Maracyn Plus yesterday and today I don't see any white tufts! :;bananagreen I'll continue treatment day 3 and 5 like the directions state. So happy, I hope it's working for real.

    I also decided today to treat the main tank as well, after seeing success with the quarantine. The harlequins were in that tank for 2 days (bad I know) and I know this stuff is highly contagious, so it's better to be safe than sorry. Also my betta in that tank started showing fin rot at that time, so it might be the same thing. I'll just have to buy a bottle of TSS for afterwards, I guess.

    So long story short, it seems it wasn't fungus at all, but bacterial in nature. It's possibly columnaris even though the fish don't seen to be declining rapidly. They act, look, and eat normally, although the worst one was spitting up some of his food. The only symptom was some white tufts hanging off the lip of one and a white spot on the lip of two others. If I understand correctly, after research, there some strains that are more aggressive than others. I guess this isn't one of them (fortunately).

    Fingers crossed! Thanks for your help guys! I'll keep you updated.
  19. sirdarksolFishlore LegendMember

    Hooray! Good luck. Keep an eye on the spots the tufts were. As I mentioned above, columnaris can leave fish exposed to secondary infections when it gets killed off. These secondary infections are usually gram-positive (mostly because you've just killed off all the gram-negative bacteria in the tank), so you would need to use regular Maracyn (or a similar med) to clear them up. It might be possible, though, that the fish will do fine since they weren't hit super hard by the infection. Just something to watch out for.
  20. Wendy LubianetskyWell Known MemberMember

    By the way, I do agree with the cautions on Pima and Melafix. You need to be careful with anything you use.... I appreciate the positive feedback. I have had such good results that I am a big believer in the product. It has saved several fish' lives for me. But all comments on here are correct in terms of care of use.

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