Aragonite Sand was Killing My Corries

Sorry if this is in the wrong thread - I figured this was the most relevant spot to post it?


Hey guys,

So I'll go back to the start of things before I explain why I think aragonite sand was killing my corries. It's a long story, so get comfy, but I wanted to get this out in case anyone else does this too.

A year ago I had just started aquarium keeping, and had a little family of corries in my tank. I had those coloured stones/pebbles as substrate, but after researching corries I found out that they prefer sand. So off I went to my LFS to get sand - but was surprised to find that they only had one kind, and the cost of the sand. In the saltwater area, they had aragonite sand - 10kg for $30. Being the newbie I was, I was talked into buying it because it's "sand that is cleaned and meant for fish... the sand from hardware stores are very dirty and can make your fish sick if it isn't cleaned enough". Which was actually true, they hadn't lied or anything, and I didn't want to risk making my fish sick with dirty sand. So off I went, and put the aragonite sand in my tank.

Months passed, and I noticed every two months or so one of my corries would get suddenly sick and die within a couple of days, if not the same day the symptoms started. They would flash against the sand, get pop-eye, and die. I drew it down to bad stock, because it would only be one cory at a time and none of my other fish would get sick at all.

Towards the end of the year, I went and upgraded my tank from a 70L to a 214L so I could grow my little fish family. Being that aragonite sand costed $30, and that I would have probably needed around 3 bags to fill this new tank, I decided $90 on sand was crazy, and went and bought some of the dreaded hardware store sand. $7 for 20kg, and I only needed a bag and a half, so I was cheering - and it didn't take much to clean it at all. It even looked whiter and nicer than the aragonite sand, and it was much finer (the aragonite sand was very fine for it's kind though, it wasn't chunky like you see in normal salt water tanks). My corries were digging their little faces into the sand and swishing it everywhere - it was so cute!

But of course, with sand, when you vacuum the tank you lose a bit of sand each time, so I was losing a bit of sand around the perimeter in my tank. I had a bit of the aragonite sand left in a bag from way back, so I decided to top up the tank with it. It looked terrible mixed in with regular sand, and you could definitely notice the difference in grain size. Fast forward about a month, and my corries suddenly started getting sick again. It then clicked for me that it was the sand! I've never changed my cleaning routine, and I change out water about 10-15% weekly on a Sunday.

I've since lost three of my oldest corries, who were always very fat and happy, and now another one of my oldest is sick. The corries that have died have been a mix of sterbaI and trillineatus, from two or three different LFS, so it isn't the stock or the breeds.

The cory that is currently sick is at least a year old, and is named Big Mumma for a reason (loves food and breeding, lol). She had barely been eating for the past two weeks, and her barbels are now tiny nubs and she has a sunken stomach. I desperately did a larger tank change on the Sunday just passed, and vacuumed quite a lot of the top layer of sand (which was a mix of aragonite sand and regular sand, everything underneath is regular sand). Today is Thursday, and she has been eating (very slowly, but still... eating!) for the past hour. I don't want to count my chickens, but the fact that she is even eating is a miracle.

Every other incident with these corries getting sick, I have put them into a QT tank with Maracyn II, because this 'illness' is so fast acting. This has only managed to save ONE of my corries, out of the 5-6 corries I've lost. I decided to leave Big Mumma in the tank because she'd perk up if a cory swam near her, so I was hoping this would help her.

I'll keep you guys posted with how she goes, but I really truly think its the aragonite sand that has done this.

Has anyone else had experience with this sand?

 

Here are some pictures of Big Mumma, just in case you were curious.
You can see her sunken stomach, and the redness in her joints. I've always thought it was just septicemia, which is why I treated with Maracyn II in the past.

 

That is interesting! Keep us posted! And, I hope she makes it!

 

Your pictures are fantastic!

I hope your Cory makes it and this is what has been causing their (unfortunate) deaths so you know for future use.

 

Did some research overhere and noticed that Aragonite is only used for marine tank containing and releasing calcium (Ph will raise to my believe). Besides that it as a certain structure that probably causes (internal) damage (had a suspecion about that with black sand being vulcanic glass)
The other sand will be silicasand I suppose that has another (chemical) structure and won't.
Beautifull pics and I hope your fish will pull through.
My big adopted Paleatus is callen "Big Mum" hahaha

 

Doubledutch is correct. Aragonite is made of calcium (mostly), and bit dissolves slowly in your tank, raising carbonate hardness levels which in turn increases pH levels, and most species of tropical fish prefer a pH around 7-7.5. Aragonite raises pH usually to 8.0-8.4. Have you happened to test the water recently and have the results?

 

Doubledutch is correct. Aragonite is made of calcium (mostly), and bit dissolves slowly in your tank, raising carbonate hardness levels which in turn increases pH levels, and most species of tropical fish prefer a pH around 7-7.5. Aragonite raises pH usually to 8.0-8.4. Have you happened to test the water recently and have the results?

Yep, I have always tested the water when each of my poor corries got sick, and it has always stuck to 7.4, which really confused me :/

Day 2 Update:

She has been eating the past two days during feeding in the morning, which is great!

I tried to get a photo of her this morning to show her, but she wouldn't let me get close enough to get a photo - again, this is great! A week ago I could put my finger on the glass and she wouldn't even flinch, but now she's actually responding again.

Another thing - her top fin is raised, like in the photos I posted. Last week it was always down, and it made her look quite sad (as silly as that sounds).

So far so good! Tomorrow is Sunday cleaning day for me, so I'll vacuum a bit more of the sand because there's still a little bit of the aragonite left.

Will keep you posted - hopefully with photos, if she'll let me

 

Good to hear !!

 

Day 4 Update:

I did another big vacuum of the sand yesterday, but I haven't seen much improvement yet.
Here are some more photos of her, and I also took some photos of my healthy cory, Oddball (you should be able to tell the difference between the two - she's a big girl lol). This is just to compare how the two look. P.S Oddball isn't normally this lazy lol.

I'll post a video soon showing you how Big Mumma is swimming, which is a little concerning, but atleast she is eating.

 

Did have problems with Habrosus likewise. Thinking the nervesystem is damaged - affected in one way or the other. Does look healthy besides the clamped dorsal..you could try some waterchanges maybe??

 

Did have problems with Habrosus likewise. Thinking the nervesystem is damaged - affected in one way or the other. Does look healthy besides the clamped dorsal..you could try some waterchanges maybe??

The one with the clamped dorsal is Oddball, the healthy one lol.
The last photo is of my two healthy corries, to compare to Big Mumma in the top ones. Big Mumma is the one in photos 1, 2 and 4.

Oddball was just being lazy, I'm surprised I even got a photo of her because she is very skittish - I think she was playing dead lol. And above her was a breeding box I just put in, so she might've been a bit weary of it. Gutsy had his down too under that box, so I think they were checking it out.

Another update:
Big mumma is still slowly eating, yipee. Plus, she looks like she's getting a bit more colour to her. You can kind of see in the photos that she is a bit pale and grey compared to my other two, but today she's looking a little brighter.

Since I've vacuumed a fair bit of sand, I'm going to do one more big vacuum on Sunday again, and then lay a layer of play sand over the top to cap off any remaining aragonite.

So far, this is working!

 

The one with the clamped dorsal is Oddball, the healthy one lol.
The last photo is of my two healthy corries, to compare to Big Mumma in the top ones. Big Mumma is the one in photos 1, 2 and 4.

Oddball was just being lazy, I'm surprised I even got a photo of her because she is very skittish - I think she was playing dead lol. And above her was a breeding box I just put in, so she might've been a bit weary of it. Gutsy had his down too under that box, so I think they were checking it out.

Another update:
Big mumma is still slowly eating, yipee. Plus, she looks like she's getting a bit more colour to her. You can kind of see in the photos that she is a bit pale and grey compared to my other two, but today she's looking a little brighter.

Since I've vacuumed a fair bit of sand, I'm going to do one more big vacuum on Sunday again, and then lay a layer of play sand over the top to cap off any remaining aragonite.

So far, this is working!

Ahhh sorry I misread. As said they looked healthy haha!!!! Great she is eating. Fingers crossed!

 

I think that the main issue is that aragonite sand raises the ph (and hardness) as mentioned creating a less than optimal environment for cories, most of which come from soft to neutral waters. I think the 'sharpness' of basic sand/gravel etc can be a bit overrated.

 

I think that the main issue is that aragonite sand raises the ph (and hardness) as mentioned creating a less than optimal environment for cories, most of which come from soft to neutral waters. I think the 'sharpness' of basic sand/gravel etc can be a bit overrated.

That's what I've thought too, but the PH has never budged from 7.4. :/

 

Normally aragonite sand will buffer a tank to about 8.2ph.

 

Normally aragonite sand will buffer a tank to about 8.2ph.

Yep that's what I read too.
I wish that was the answer :/ but like I said, it's never budged from 7.4.

I'm only guessing at this point that aragonite harbours bacteria more than regular sand, so because the corries are bottom feeders they're pretty much living on this bacteria.
Like I said, just a guess, but it's turning out that way so far.

 

Yep that's what I read too.
I wish that was the answer :/ but like I said, it's never budged from 7.4.

I'm only guessing at this point that aragonite harbours bacteria more than regular sand, so because the corries are bottom feeders they're pretty much living on this bacteria.
Like I said, just a guess, but it's turning out that way so far.

Exactly what I was thinking this weekend !!!
Some bacteriaspecies won't survive in more acidic (low Ph) environments. (For instance Cardinals could get troubles in less acidic water.) My thoughts in cases of new corys having problems in a new tank / at new substrate as well.

Aad.

 

Unfortunately, Big Mumma died this morning.

I had only just taken all of the sand out, and put new play sand in, but I think it was too late.
I've only managed to save one cory out of the many that have died this way, so I think it's a matter of once they have it, it's too late.

Upside is that the tank has barely any aragonite left (less than 5%), so I'll keep this 'experiment' going and see if this has stopped their sudden deaths.

 

So sorry to hear about your loss.

 

Awwww sorry to hear.

 

Thanks guys.

I just thought of something I should add to prove my case.

I have a pair of sterbais who spawn weekly. I used to save the babies, but now it's gotten too much. I have a total of 5 juvis and 1 fry in a breeder box at the moment (couldn't resist saving this last one lol).

With that all said, the water conditions must be fine for 1) my corries wanting to spawn and 2) all babies that I save are surviving. From what I understand they are super sensitive as fry.

All the more proving it's the aragonite. Hmmm...

 

Fish spawning isn't proof everything is all right (could be btw). Even in very worse conditions fish often will spawn (survival tactics)
At an UK-forum a thread is going on (Dieing Trilineatus).
Conclusion is some sand causes (anaerobic) ammonia/nitrite-spikes above the substrate. Corys may have problems with that (I did loose 20 habrosus in fine PFS). Fry in a breederbox is far above the substrate, so those could have not any problems while their parents are dieing!!!
Just thought, suspecions, experiences in other threads, aso !!!

 

Fish spawning isn't proof everything is all right (could be btw). Even in very worse conditions fish often will spawn (survival tactics)
At an UK-forum a thread is going on (Dieing Trilineatus).
Conclusion is some sand causes (anaerobic) ammonia/nitrite-spikes above the substrate. Corys may have problems with that (I did loose 20 habrosus in fine PFS). Fry in a breederbox is far above the substrate, so those could have not any problems while their parents are dieing!!!
Just thought, suspecions, experiences in other threads, aso !!!

Hm, that sounds interesting. I'll look for it!
All the more proving to this case!
I wish there was more about it though - would have been nice to not see 8-10 corries die.