Approve My Transfer Plan

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poeticinjustices

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Okay so provided all goes well with the terracotta delivery the tank upgrade is happening this weekend. I think i will melt down emotionally if it doesn't haha. I have a plan mapped out for the transfer but want to get your input to make sure it sounds good. Please keep in mind I am doing this transfer basically alone (unless someone wants to come help?!?!) So it's going to take awhile.

The day before -
Pre - wash river stones and planting substrate and terracotta decor. Prepare and treat as much additional water as I can. This will probably be around 20-30g in buckets.

The day of...
1. Drain about 10g into a new kitchen trash (no liner but also never been used) can from the 29g. In this container I plan to put the fish as well as all biomedia to be preserved for transfer.
2. Drain additional tank water into a couple more buckets, set aside.
3. Move the 29g out.
**during this time there is to be a lull - I am running a dedicated line for 75g equipment and the outlet has to be changed out. This is really the only time this can be done. It should take no more than an hour. I plan to give a final rinse to the new substrate and decor during this time and clean some brown diatom off of the 29g filter. Will the fish be okay during this hour lull? I can run the air pump and drop their air stones in the can with them. I only worry because it's a tall container.*
4. Move the 75g into place. Add new stones and decor and air features, set up the canister and equipment.
5. Put the excess 29g water in and fill up enough water from the can with fish and maybe some new water to get fish in comfortably. Leave a little bit of water in the can so biomedia remains wet for a few more minutes.
6. Add in prepared water.
7. Prepare more water on the spot (I anticipate needing about 15g more gallons prepared on the fly.
8. Get the canister up and running. Add old, seeded media to the canister last and reattach biowheels to the HOB filter which will be running on the front for awhile.

24 hours later...TSS to buffer cycle loss from changing substrate or any other bacteria death.

Does this sound like it'll work? Any adjustments recommended?

Also, how long should I leave the HOB filter running on the front? Ideally I would just keep it there then transfer back to the 29g when I restock it but that is a good long while away and I cannot have the HOB running on the front of the 75g for that long haha.

 

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The fish will be fine for several hours in that can, the amount of surface area will provide plenty of oxygen for a couple days. Temperature would be your only concern and an hour is not going to be an issue.

You don't need to fill the 75 gallon all the way to the top, just high enough to get the HOB running. You can add the rest of the water in a day or two, after it is aged.

You don't need the 29 gallon HOB on the front of the 75 gallon, if you are taking the media and putting it in the new filter. In fact, I recommend against it, as you will be promoting the growth of bacteria in the front HOB to deal with the ammonia. This basically splits up your bacteria and when you remove the front HOB your are removing half your BB.

I read from this that this is a planted tank, which gives me a couple questions. Is this a NPT(walstad) tank? If so, you can not do a transfer of this type safely, as NPTs have fluctuations for the first month and the tank could give off a toxic amount of ammonia. If not, how heavily are to planning on planting? Planting heavily 50% or more with fast growing plants, along with seeded media will result in instant cycling in most cases. In this case, you wouldn't need the TSS.
 
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poeticinjustices

poeticinjustices

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The only reason I was going to keep the HOB was for the biowheels then remove them one by one. However prior to this transfer I built my own filter cartridges with extra biological media to pre-seed. I wondered about using the HOB at all myself because I do not want bacteria growing there before the biological media i put in the canister. So i was thinking maybe I should just rip the bandaid off and forget about the HOB as well.

However that means I would be losing whatever BB is in my substrate (I am replacing it as it's too small for my goldies) and the BB on the 2 biowheels if I did this. But with the extra water volume, the fact that 4 very young goldies in a 75g tank is under stocked and the additional media i seeded in preparation and the TSS I wonder if this would be enough to guard them from a recycle?

It's not a walstad and for now it's not that heavily planted though i do plan to continue adding plants. Some are fast growing and some are slow. I plan to make it a plants and fish only deal as i have had a lot of trouble with decor related injuries.

Good to know the can will hold for awhile. And yeah I was also considering just getting the water level high enough to run the equipment then adding more water later. The only catch is I am probably destroying more of my cycle than I am preserving esp without the HOB on there so I need to get the TSS in asap and taking a few days to add more water further delays that process.

Thanks for all your input

 

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The loss of BB out of the gravel is not all that significant, as most live within your filter. If you wanted to preserve the bacteria on the wheels, you can cut the media from the wheel, fold it, and place in front of the cartridge in the new filter.

Being under stocked as much as you are, will probably result in cycling without the addition of TSS. Either way, I would not add the TSS for at least 48 hours. The bio-load on a tank this size is so low that they are unlikely to produce enough ammonia concentration in the first 24 hours to support the bacteria in the bottle. I would test the water and wait till it reaches .5ppm to add the TSS, but I highly doubt you will see .25ppm in this tank. It is just too much water and the bb will be able to grow easily to handle the slow rise of ammonia.
 
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poeticinjustices

poeticinjustices

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Oh actually I really like that idea of cutting or folding up the biowheels but the new filter is a canister so I would have to put it in the baskets Still going to work as well?

You may just be right though. Use the extra media, if things start to spike then make a decision on TSS but don't just dump it in. I guess I am feeling a little guilty because these guys went through almost an entire fish in cycle naturally with only water changes and a reducing agent (Amquel Plus at the time, Prime now) before I knew about TSS and I don't want them put through too much again.

 

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If you don't intend to keep the HOB (HOF-your line, if I recall) filter on the new 75, and if you have room, perhaps you could put it on the 29, keeping the old substrate there.
You could then either keep it as a QT tank, in which case you would need to add ammonia from time to time, or just keep it as another set up aquarium. With a HOT filter, you would not even need a stand (for that casual look).
Your plan does sound very well thought out; I generally just go ahead and do something, and then concentrate my time thinking of what I should have done differently.
While it's in the bucket, you might want to place your air stone under or very near your old media to get oxygen to it; I would expect that your fish will be fine, as the air stone will cause a turnover of water and therefore enhanced gas transfer (I am assuming here that your media will sink to the bottom, which would otherwise be the most oxygen poor area) Anyway, sounds good, send photos-rick..

BTW, if you prepare the new water in a separate container, you only need add enough Prime for that amount, meaning that your seasoned water will stay seasoned, just as in a W/C. Depending on the volume of substrate and decor, you would end up with roughly half the water in the 75 being seasoned,
If You can keep the HOB on the 75 for a day or so, it might help. as you would be filling it with new water, and just over a half cap of Prime; The wait would allow new ammonia to form if you either decide to add fish, or ammonia for a QT.
Please disregard if you haven't room for both tanks, btw-rick

I am also assuming that there is no way to fit the HOT to the side of the tank, as they really are handy for short term use of chemical filtration.
 
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Yes you can put it in the canister. Just try and put it in so it runs over the media and not through it. The thicker weave of the bio-wheel media might impede the flow of water.

Small amounts of ammonia will not hurt your fish, especially gold fish. Most live through ungodly amounts of ammonia(disclaimer:don't test), lol. Like I said, I doubt you will see more then traces of ammonia.
 

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Only input I have is: first, plan for it to take three times as long as you expect (this is always a good rule of thumb with big tank projects). Get an early start and don't schedule anything else that day.

Second, you forgot the most important step. I thought you'd been around FishLore long enough to know better than this, but I guess I was wrong. Step 9: post about a bajillion photos for us to see your handiwork! ;D
 

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Yes! take lots of pictures Nothing I can add onto this as I have no experience but your plan sound good to me. Good luck!
 

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The only problem with putting bio wheel material into a canister, especially with a currently low bioload that might well not even need it as the water volume will be 2x in the new tank, and therefore the ammonia concentration at 1/2, is that you sort of defeat the purpose of a bio wheel. By alternating exposure to both air and water, they become almost as efficient as trickle filters.----rick
 
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Whew okay, lots of comments...
ricmcc - I would argue that I have PLENTY of room to leave the 29g up and running, adding ammonia occasionally to support the bacteria. This would of course not be consistent with the feelings of the other residents of the house and most of them know by now an empty, CYCLED tank does not often stay empty haha. But I do plan to re-stock the 29, it's just a long way away, so I'd like to avoid losing the bacteria BUT I still have the betta tank and the maturity of the 75g to worry about and I honestly have no idea what I want to put in the 29g. I am almost considering a SW setup as there is a niger trigger fish I am head over heels for but who is too mean to live with anyone else.
Sarcasm Included - Thank you for your continued replies, I am beyond grateful for it! You addressed a lot of issues I wasn't certain about, including how necessary the biowheels would even be in a situation where the tank will be so very understocked. I keep flashing back to the original cycle, in an over-stocked 29g, where things got really scary and STILL my fish seemed better off than I was. I may or may not put them in the canister (EDIT: The biowheels, not the fish. Those go in the tank. Just in case that wasn't clear...I'm looking at you ricmcc!) but I do feel a little less worried about throwing the tank into another nasty cycle. It wasn't exactly a rational fear, I admit, but the whole time I was wondering what the point was in running the biowheel temporarily since I don't even want bacteria there. Unless of course I were to immediately re-stock the 29g, in which case having a cycled biowheel filter to add back on would be nice. I may just leave the biowheel out of the equation now and try to keep the 29g up and running (if my boyfriend will humor me AND if I can find surfactant free ammonia).
aylad and petaddiction - Well, duh. I figured that kind of went without saying Now photos of me making ugly faces as I lug 5g buckets all over the house, but the before photos are already up and there will most certainly be afters as well. Maybe some photos of goldfish swimming in a clean trash can, I imagine that would be pretty cute. Just don't expect anything special yet, I have like one piece of decor for the 75g haha.
 
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Actually, it later occurred to me (but I was thinking lack of space) that you could get the smallest tupperware container that your filter would fit on to (just take off the inlet extension) and run that to maintain your filter, just adding ammonia as needed. The idea of using rubbermaid is that it is food grade, and would therefore hold potable water. Then you could discreetly hide the empty 29 (which would eliminate the threatening appearance of a ready to go tank in any case), and have a quick to set up QT tank on hand, should you need it. The downside of using a 29gal tank as opposed to say, a 10 gal, is the cost of whatever meds you might need.
Still, I find that quite often in a QT, pristine water is enough.
And then you could hide the rubbermaid filter maintainer under a large sombrero, for example and then, etc, etc.
Nature might abhor a vacuum, but not as much as I abour an empty tank (although, to be fair, I am not fond of vacuum cleaners, as they often attack me). Oddly, I didn't fear them until one of my dogs had a long talk with me (and if you can hug fish, I can certainly talk to dogs, especially if I turn around 3 times prior to sitting)----rick
 
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poeticinjustices

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I have a 20L for QT. Maybe I could just run it on that, taking off the extension as you suggested. They are awfully short though, not sure i could fit it on there even without the extension, I'll have to check. I was planning to run one of my smaller biowheels on the QT. If I used the 200gph, the biowheels between that and my cycled 350gph are compatible, but the 350gph has 2 wheels which leaves one wheel unaccounted for.

I second the pristine water. I've been cycling V's 10g using TSS and I so overdosed the bottle that I pretty much got nitrates within 24 hours of adding it. I almost don't believe it's possible, but it's been 9 days now and I haven't seen anything but nitrates and a very brief, almost imperceptible ammonia spike. Even with a betta in a 10g, I would think I would be seeing some kind of reading by now if the tank wasn't cycled. Anyway, his water is pristine and he came to me with fin rot and general damage from the betta cup. I'm spotting new growth, though the rays ARE a bit crooked, and the white tips look like they are beginning to fade. There's still one area that looks like it has a pinkish clump of something on it, but I can't be sure if it's just his color or if it's still some remaining fin rot. Either way, it's healing. And all I did was give him good water conditions plus added FIsh Protector (love this stuff), a tiny dose of AQ salt, and fleshed out his diet. He's the pickiest eater I've ever met though. All I've been able to get him to take are his pellets and daphnia, even bloodworms, both frozen and freeze dried, he wouldn't even taste. I think it might be the Garlic Guard though so I am going to try serving them plain. Anyway, that was a big tangent, but I'm with you on clean water as the first course of treatment. It seems to have done most of the work in getting him on the road to recovery.

I believe our dogs are far better communicators than we are, so you'll have no argument from me. Nugget is TERRIFIED of vacuums. He shakes so hard that the edges of his body blur. And if the fire alarms beep low battery, he won't go on the floor of the house where it is happening, sometimes not even for days after it's been fixed. Meanwhile, we just had our entire driveway, porch and patio redone and, for a month, there were major construction vehicles ripping up and laying new cement right outside the living room. This didn't faze him at all.
 

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Heres the process i've used to set up all my large tanks:

1. Make sure floor is level where stand will be placed
2. Place stand into position and allot for 4 - 5 inches of rear working area if tank will be against a wall
3. Place tank on stand and check with level, if on carpet, i usually use old tile pieces in each corner to give it some better ground
4. Use good quality painters tape and tape just above the bottom frame of the rear of your tank (trust me, no fun trying to dry your stand because something leaked or caused condensation)
5. If setting up tank decor, gravel or in tank equipment, I do this now, though nothing gets plugged in.
6. Add water conditioner and fill tank with Python 50%(this takes forever with large tanks...) and check with level. if everything is ok, continue filling.
7. When aquarium is full, wipe off any micro bubbles with algae scraper or similar tank maint. thingy
8. Add hoods/lights, canopy
9. Connect all electrical connections to surge protector, plug into wall, set up drip loops, I then let the water age for a few hours with my air pump on high and heaters on.
10. After an hour or so, turn on your equipment and make sure it's working properly and check for leaks, allow it to run for an hour or so and check for leaks again.
11. Test your water parameters. if everything is safe, turn your hood lights off, and add your fish into their now home, if your nitrates are rather high in the water they are being temporarily housed in versus the new tanks water, you will need to acclimate them as you would new fish.
12. Take a breath, clean up, have a beer and brag about what you did on Fishlore with plenty of pictures as proof.

 
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poeticinjustices

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Heres the process i've used to set up all my large tanks:

1. Make sure floor is level where stand will be placed
2. Place stand into position and allot for 4 - 5 inches of rear working area if tank will be against a wall
3. Place tank on stand and check with level, if on carpet, i usually use old tile pieces in each corner to give it some better ground
4. Use good quality painters tape and tape just above the bottom frame of the rear of your tank (trust me, no fun trying to dry your stand because something leaked or caused condensation)
5. If setting up tank decor, gravel or in tank equipment, I do this now, though nothing gets plugged in.
6. Add water conditioner and fill tank with Python 50%(this takes forever with large tanks...) and check with level. if everything is ok, continue filling.
7. When aquarium is full, wipe off any micro bubbles with algae scraper or similar tank maint. thingy
8. Add hoods/lights, canopy
9. Connect all electrical connections to surge protector, plug into wall, set up drip loops, I then let the water age for a few hours with my air pump on high and heaters on.
10. After an hour or so, turn on your equipment and make sure it's working properly and check for leaks, allow it to run for an hour or so and check for leaks again.
11. Test your water parameters. if everything is safe, turn your hood lights off, and add your fish into their now home, if your nitrates are rather high in the water they are being temporarily housed in versus the new tanks water, you will need to acclimate them as you would new fish.
12. Take a breath, clean up, have a beer and brag about what you did on Fishlore with plenty of pictures as proof.
Oh my. Checking that the floor is level. This is something I overlooked. Oh, I have such a bad feeling now haha. I laugh because I actually feel a little sick thinking about it. I just know in my heart it's not going to be.

I did start preparing for the nitrate discrepancy with very small, daily water changes (not touching gravel or filter) so that the nitrates will be pretty low by the time I add it to the tank.

All the means nothing if I can't level the floor though. Arrrrgh.
 
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poeticinjustices

poeticinjustices

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Yes I've already got the background ready. I just need to clean off the rear glass and veneer before adding. The previous owner duct taped the background to the veneer so I need a little goo-be-gone or something to pull that gunk off of the veneer. Other than that the tank is in excellent shape. A little vinegar scrub and it was good to go. The only thing I haven't been able to do is give it a real hose-down outside so I feel like I need to do that Saturday to be sure any problems have been flushed out.
 

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I am by no means close to a expert but rather a very much beginner that has had a aquarium for less than a year. But I went from a HOB to a cannister filter. A fluval C4 to a Fluval 306. I read the instructions ( a man reading the manual/ pictures) it showed the output line to be under water. Ok so I did that. Well I stopped the HOB ( to transfer Bio of course) had put away my water pump ( to provide water flow and aireration ) because the HOB was taking care if that. The daughter who sleeps twenty feet away complained about the noise of the air bubbles and the air pump. So I turned it off. The next morning I had 7 dead fish. Needless to say I put everything back into action air pump on, water pump back in, HOB back on and half the bio in each filter. Things went back to normal. Now I done this when I went from a 20 gal to a 30 gal. What I didn't know ( I had actually gone from a 13 to the 20 to the 29 in a matter of three weeks. My cycle had not completed so therefore I went through that on top of it all.
So whatever you ( I called fluval and they said that the output on the canister filter can be below OR above the water line. Of course the manual didn't say that.
Anyway just make sure you have a very good airearation going with the new cannister
Filter.
I would also keep the HOB going on the new tank as well until your sure the new tank cycle is done. Remember your going from a 29 gal to a 75 gal that's more than 2 times the size and you will need that bio to multiple onto the cannister. I would leave on there for a month to be safe.

I am now running into brown diatoms because they generally appear after a full cycle has completed ( brown algae over everything)
So I doing my water changes 20% weekly and monitoring my filters. That diatom can get gunk all over the place.


If you lived by me I would be happy to help. I am in Wisconsin

Beschef
 

ricmcc

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Oh my.
All the means nothing if I can't level the floor though. Arrrrgh.
I wouldn't go so far as to abandon hope about the floor being absolutely square just yet.
Generally, the greater the water volume, the greater the need for your tank to be absolutely level.
With both my 220 gal and 2 135 gal tanks I have used shims between the floor and the bottom of the stand to get the top of the stand perfectly level.
So long as the stand is leveled, the tank will be level, and no undue stress will be put on the tank.
As this arrangement has worked work about 6-7 months for the 220, and years for the 135s, I'm confident that the tanks are secure.
When I was freaking out about the 135s, I mentioned the problem to my brother, who suggested the shims. He is an engineer, so on this occasion he happened to know what he was talking about.
Btw, I used metal shims of metal stands, wooden on wooden stands. I also use the largest, or longest, I suppose, shim possible to more evenly distribute the weight.--rick
 
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poeticinjustices

poeticinjustices

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Yeah that would have to be the solution, a shim. Now, it's more important to be level in a big tank, but a difference of 1/8th of an inch is far more severe in, say, my 10g than it would be in my 75g, because of the distance end to end or even front to back,right?

I never leveled the 29g and at times swear I can see a difference end to end, but that may just be me haha. Hmm...looks like I'm off to pick up some wood for shims. Thanks guys!
 
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