Apistogramma with bottom feeders?

RandomFishBoi

Thinking of doing apistogramma for my 45 gallon. Foot print is about 36x16, give or take an inch. I think 6 apistos with a 1:2 male female ratio would be a good fit. However, I do want to have some bottom feeders, and I am concerned that they will be picked on by the apistos. I'd also like some recommendations for bottom feeders. And is 6 apistos of that ratio ok?

To be more specific, I am thinking of Apistogramma Panduro.

The tank will also be heavily planted. In terms of other fish, I am thinking a school of a tetras of the genus hyphesoobrycon, and I am still debating a pair of angelfish.
 

MacZ

The females of A. panduro tend to fight a lot. A group of 3 (1m:2f) would be allright. More can go wrong easily in that tank size.

I would not combine any Apistogramma with bottomfeeders. Usually Corydoras and loaches will not understand the Apistogramma's attempts to scare them away, so they will break the territories all the time, resulting in being attacked by the Apistos. The whole situation ends in stress for every fish involved. Just leave them be.
 
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RandomFishBoi

Based on my research, some bottom feeders aren't actually bothered by the apistos aggression, and it seems that people often house bottom feeders with apistos.

Is there another species of apisto I can do that is less aggressive towards conspecifics? I chose Panduro mainly because of its look. So maybe a less aggressive similar looking species?
 
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MacZ

People house them together and say it works often because they don't really observe what's happening in their tanks... As I mentioned above: The tank would need to be much bigger, then it could (not can, not will, not has to) work.
Besides, A. panduro are one of the real blackwater species, they would need a somewhat different eater chemistry and tank design than most cories.
 
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RandomFishBoi

If the fish keeper can hardly notice the aggression, then is really that big of a problem? If the aggressive encounters happened enough for it to become problematic, than the fish keeper would know, whether it is a quick glance at the tank or it is staring at it for hours.

I was thinking panda cories, to almost make a panda theme. They can handle ph down to 6.
 
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MacZ

If the fish keeper can hardly notice the aggression, then is really that big of a problem? If the aggressive encounters happened enough for it to become problematic, than the fish keeper would know, whether it is a quick glance at the tank or it is staring at it for hours.

I was thinking panda cories, to almost make a panda theme. They can handle ph down to 6.

No, many people just have no idea what many behaviours actually mean and interpret them dead wrong.

It's not just the pH that makes blackwater blackwater. And within the blackwater category there are several different setup types.

But, alas, I'm out now. Sent you a PM why. Good luck with stocking your tank at some point.
 
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Fishnturtleguy933

Thinking of doing apistogramma for my 45 gallon. Foot print is about 36x16, give or take an inch. I think 6 apistos with a 1:2 male female ratio would be a good fit. However, I do want to have some bottom feeders, and I am concerned that they will be picked on by the apistos. I'd also like some recommendations for bottom feeders. And is 6 apistos of that ratio ok?

To be more specific, I am thinking of Apistogramma Panduro.

The tank will also be heavily planted. In terms of other fish, I am thinking a school of a tetras of the genus hyphesoobrycon, and I am still debating a pair of angelfish.
You could always keep a single male apisto if you don't want to breed. It might not display completely normal tank behaviour, but with no spawning happening the aggression might be quelled a bit. I've heard(no experience with them) that a.hongsloi are pretty peaceful and they do have great color. But if breeding is something you want to do then i would avoid the corries.
 
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noobscaper

According to what I just read over at the Apistogramma forum (had the same question haha), the females turn into little terrors when breeding and would go after the cories. Apparently cories are either really dumb or have short memories as well, so they'd just go back after being chased away. The females might then lose their patience.
Never had apistos though, take this with a pinch of salt
 
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jake37

If you intend to breed the panduro you will need to condition your water as they will not normally breed successfully in tap water.

I have sterbai and khuli with my hongsloi and nijsseni (closely related to panduro). The nijsseni female is far more territorial than the hongsloi and she has carved out a small area in the tank will no one is allowed. For the most part her area is honored but there is some intrusion and she does chase the intruder out. The sterbai mostly ignore her but they are far more massive than her and she is more of a chaser than biter so it mostly works. The kuhli in this tank are mostly nocturnal so i do not have as much observation but they prefer the other side of the tank where they have a nice cozy home and the hongsloi pretty much ignore them. The hongsloi I've not seen interact with the cory or kuhli. I have 2 confirm males; 1 confirm female and 1 likely female for the hongsloi.

Thinking of doing apistogramma for my 45 gallon. Foot print is about 36x16, give or take an inch. I think 6 apistos with a 1:2 male female ratio would be a good fit. However, I do want to have some bottom feeders, and I am concerned that they will be picked on by the apistos. I'd also like some recommendations for bottom feeders. And is 6 apistos of that ratio ok?

To be more specific, I am thinking of Apistogramma Panduro.

The tank will also be heavily planted. In terms of other fish, I am thinking a school of a tetras of the genus hyphesoobrycon, and I am still debating a pair of angelfish.
 
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RandomFishBoi

The sterbai mostly ignore her but they are far more massive than her and she is more of a chaser than biter so it mostly works.
To my understanding, apistogramma in general rely more on intimidation than injury. And I also find It hard to believe that she can physically harm an armored catfish like a cory.

I do not intend to breed them. If they breed, than fine, and if they don't breed, than also fine. However I am not sure if they can be kept at a higher ph, as most sites tell you the ph of an apisto with the idea that you intend to breed it. If they still do require specific water parameters, breeding or not, than I will have no problem trying to meet them. Although I am hoping they can be kept at at least 7 ph if they are not breeding, so I have more options on tank-mates.
 
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jake37

Apisto prefer lower ph not higher. They prefer very soft water at lower ph. I'm not sure of the ph requirement for panduro to successfully breed (they will lay eggs at higher ph they just won't hatch); but i think it is around 5.7 to 6.3 (you should double check if you actually want them to hatch). To sustain such a low ph you will also need very low kh.

To my understanding, apistogramma in general rely more on intimidation than injury. And I also find It hard to believe that she can physically harm an armored catfish like a cory.

I do not intend to breed them. If they breed, than fine, and if they don't breed, than also fine. However I am not sure if they can be kept at a higher ph, as most sites tell you the ph of an apisto with the idea that you intend to breed it. If they still do require specific water parameters, breeding or not, than I will have no problem trying to meet them. Although I am hoping they can be kept at at least 7 ph if they are not breeding, so I have more options on tank-mates.
 
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RandomFishBoi

Apisto prefer lower ph not higher. They prefer very soft water at lower ph. I'm not sure of the ph requirement for panduro to successfully breed (they will lay eggs at higher ph they just won't hatch); but i think it is around 5.7 to 6.3 (you should double check if you actually want them to hatch). To sustain such a low ph you will also need very low kh.
Like I said, breeding them is not my goal. I'm just wondering if they can be kept at a higher ph (7) when not breeding. If not, then I will still comply with their water chemistry needs
 
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jake37

I am unware of issues keeping them at higher ph/harder water though it helps if they are tank bred as oppose to wild.

Like I said, breeding them is not my goal. I'm just wondering if they can be kept at a higher ph (7) when not breeding. If not, then I will still comply with their water chemistry needs
 
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