API pH down?

Amazoniantanklvr

Member
I could keep a reek tank with my water. It is that high. I'm sick of it. I was thinking of using fluval peat and/or andler cones but I wanted to get your guy's opinion on this product. How about the nutralizer product? My current ph is 7.9-8.2. I want to get it to 6.4-7.2. Id be happy anywhere in that range. I am only asking about there products. Tho you can aslo give your input on fluval peat and andler cones. Please don't tell me to get an ro unit or ro water. Thanks in advance!
 

Myyyman

Member
I use dymax (I think that's it) fluval stuff that keeps the PH steady - it looks mucky at first but it clears up quickly. I haven't used API PH down but I've had success (kind of) with other API products like bettafix.
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
Thanks. What does it keep your ph at?
 

sfsamm

Member
Chemicals to control ph are almost always a bad idea especially when going lower from a high oh as it will yes lower your ph.... temporarily... and will bounce right back.

I ran myself a little test scenario on my tap in a 20 gallon tank a couple years ago.

API ph down I used 16 times the dosage on the bottle to lower ph from 8.2 to 7.6 slowly over 6 hours adding more with circulation pump and filtration in the tank testing 30-40 minutes after adding... 12 hours after last addition the ph was at 7.8 and 12 hours later 8.2.... 24 hours later still 8.2... added 12 times the dosage to lower to 7.6 this time via the same process and in 12 hours my ph was 8.2.

Seachem acid buffer on the same process used 9 times the dosage and took almost 48 hours to be back to 8.2. Another 7 times dosage brought it to 7.6 and took 4 days and settled at a ph of 8.

Just for reference my tank was bare bottom and fluval c3 filtration a 400gph circulation pump no fish no plants for testing. Was drained entirely and all filtration media was removed from the filter as I didn't need to unnecessarily kill cycled media. And tanks was rinsed throughly with the same water used for testing (my kitchen tap) between tests.

Yup, still don't recommend chemicals to control ph. I know you don't want to hear the right answer so I won't bother. But that's my experience on a 7 day test with those two products in an empty well circulated tank. Good luck.
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
OK, thanks. I'll try andler cones or peat. I don't have to money for an ro unit so. And buying water is expensive
 

sfsamm

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
OK, thanks. I'll try andler cones or peat. I don't have to money for an ro unit so. And buying water is expensive
I don't either but the little RO buddy units are only like $45 and in short order it will be significantly cheaper than buying tons of cones and leaves and much faster than waiting for new water soak up the tannins enough to lower the ph.
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
Well I live at home and my mom really wants an ro unit but can't convince my dad so I'll wait until he gives in (if ever lol)
sfsamm said:
I don't either but the little RO buddy units are only like $45 and in short order it will be significantly cheaper than buying tons of cones and leaves and much faster than waiting for new water soak up the tannins enough to lower the ph.
Link?
 

CichlidJynx

Member
What are you trying to keep to need a low pH? Demineralizing the water is the best way to lower pH as you mentioned with your RO unit. Peat will work a little and I use alder cones and I’ve seen a very slight shift (.1-.2) But that’s only using 20-30 cones
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
I want to drop it .8-1.8.

CichlidJynx said:
What are you trying to keep to need a low pH? Demineralizing the water is the best way to lower pH as you mentioned with your RO unit. Peat will work a little and I use alder cones and I’ve seen a very slight shift (.1-.2) But that’s only using 20-30 cones
On top of this...most fish can easily adjust up to a higher PH/hardness with no problems because everything that they need out of the water column is still there, only in higher amounts, and the fish only use what they need. The only time PH/hardness should be an issue is if you were trying to keep something that needs high levels like African cichlids but you had a PH of say 6.5. That's because in this scenario not everything they need out of the water is available in the amount they need. Honestly, I really wouldn't bother trying if it's not doing harm to the fish

Well I want to breed apistos so...……..
 

nikm128

Member
This: is the RO buddie...I'll ping coralbandit since I'm pretty sure he just uses a mix of RO/Tap water to get the parameters he wants for breeding. But really it's more a matter of hardness and TDS than PH...
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
nikm128 said:
This: is the RO buddie...I'll ping coralbandit since I'm pretty sure he just uses a mix of RO/Tap water to get the parameters he wants for breeding. But really it's more a matter of hardness and TDS than PH...
Really? My hardness isn't bad. But not good either. gH: 13 kH: 6
 

CichlidJynx

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
I want to drop it .8-1.8.


On top of this...most fish can easily adjust up to a higher PH/hardness with no problems because everything that they need out of the water column is still there, only in higher amounts, and the fish only use what they need. The only time PH/hardness should be an issue is if you were trying to keep something that needs high levels like African cichlids but you had a PH of say 6.5. That's because in this scenario not everything they need out of the water is available in the amount they need. Honestly, I really wouldn't bother trying if it's not doing harm to the fish

Well I want to breed apistos so...……..
I personally would try using botanicals to lower it. Best of luck with your apistos! Some of them need as low as 5, please post about your endeavors!
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
CichlidJynx said:
I personally would try using botanicals to lower it. Best of luck with your apistos! Some of them need as low as 5, please post about your endeavors!
What botanicals would you recommend? of course. I'm doing A. Agassizii. Pretty easy from what I've heard.
 

CichlidJynx

Member

CichlidJynx

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
What is your pH and what does it drop it to?
My pH out of the tap is 7.4 and it lowered to 7.2-7.1. I also don’t have a lot of botanicals in my 20 Long. I’ve added 20 leaves and 30 alder cones. I bet if you doubled what I did it would lower it .4-.5
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
Well I guess that 7.6-7.5 is better than 8
 

CichlidJynx

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
Well I guess that 7.6-7.5 is better than 8
Is your water buffered? That’s extremely high!
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
I'm not sure. But my kH is relatively low so I'm not sure.
 

coralbandit

Member
Start collecting rain water ..
Test it obviously but I suspect it will be softer then your source .
 

CichlidJynx

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
I'm not sure. But my kH is relatively low so I'm not sure.
To test you can put water in a glass with an air stone then test tomorrow to see if it’s the same
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
But I don't have an air stone. How does that test it? What am I looking for?
 

sfsamm

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
Its not permanent either. Hook it up run your zero water and let it drain store in a 5 gallon bucket in the closet. Cheaper on Amazon and other online retailers than direct which is what I've linked. I have the full RODI and you can add DI later to keep it a few bucks cheaper up front. Filters are also quite reasonable and I replace about every 6-7 months with around 35g a week of zero water. Filters don't all croak T the same time.

 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
sfsamm said:
Its not permanent either. Hook it up run your zero water and let it drain store in a 5 gallon bucket in the closet. Cheaper on Amazon and other online retailers than direct which is what I've linked. I have the full RODI and you can add DI later to keep it a few bucks cheaper up front. Filters are also quite reasonable and I replace about every 6-7 months with around 35g a week of zero water. Filters don't all croak T the same time.

Thanks!
 

Kjeldsen

Member
The harder your water is, the harder it will be to change. My tap water is 8.2 pH with a TDS of 650 ppm and I tried everything from peat, cones, leaves, wood, you-name-it, wouldn't budge. I didn't want to install an R/O system so resigned myself to only keeping African cichlids and livebearers. Other fish can live it for a while, but not breed.
Then I got an R/O Buddy for $45.00 on Amazon, which required no complex installation, so I keep it hooked up an outside faucet with the drain line going to water plants and the R/O to a rubbermaid tote. Best investment ever, and only needs filter changing about once a year. Sorry, I know you didn't want to hear it but I don't think the pH Down will solve the problem.

RO2c.jpg

RO2.jpg
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
Ok, thanks. What is the water like that comes out of the buddie? I might have to just break down and get one.
 

nikm128

Member
Well if you get the one that does RO and DI it should come out as just pure water...neutral PH, 0 NA, no mineral content, etc.
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
What about no DI?
 

CichlidJynx

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
But I don't have an air stone. How does that test it? What am I looking for?
Some company’s and or piping can cause your tap water to change chemistry, aerating the water will allow the Co2 to gas off leaving you with your actual water chemistry
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
CichlidJynx said:
Some company’s and or piping can cause your tap water to change chemistry, aerating the water will allow the Co2 to gas off leaving you with your actual water chemistry
So how would that be different form my tank water?
 

nikm128

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
What about no DI?
Still neutral PH, and no NA, but it should only strip heavier metals
 

CichlidJynx

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
So how would that be different form my tank water?
It would differ because you have filters aerating the water constantly so it could be lower, when you posted your pH was that from the tap or from your tank?
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
nikm128 said:
Still neutral PH, and no NA, but it should only strip heavier metals
kk
CichlidJynx said:
It would differ because you have filters aerating the water constantly so it could be lower, when you posted your pH was that from the tap or from your tank?
Tank

Edit: I receive water form a big city so they may buffer it.
 

FinalFins

Member
If I am comprehending correctly you want to lower pH to breed a.agazzizi, correct? They should be able to breed in your water, but I think they have a bit trouble fertilizing if I am correct?
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
FinalFins said:
If I am comprehending correctly you want to lower pH to breed a.agazzizi, correct? They should be able to breed in your water, but I think they have a bit trouble fertilizing if I am correct?
Yes, you are correct. The feralization amount isn't as high in hard water as when in softer water.
 

FinalFins

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
Yes, you are correct. The feralization amount isn't as high as when in softer water.
I think you mean in harder water?

I do recommend rainwater like coralbandit said, it's usually safe as long as you don't have a lot of factories chugging emmissions into the air.
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
I live in Arizona. It doesn't rain in April/May (when I plan to start breeding). But it pours in July.
 

KribensisLover1

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
Well I live at home and my mom really wants an ro unit but can't convince my dad so I'll wait until he gives in (if ever lol)

Link?
There’s always divorce. Don’t come between us and our fishes.
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
SlvikanAKAMsWorryWart said:
There’s always divorce. Don’t come between us and our fishes.
Um, I'm not going there. Next!
 

KribensisLover1

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
Um, I'm not going there. Next!
I’m just teasing COMPLETELY.
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
SlvikanAKAMsWorryWart said:
I’m just teasing COMPLETELY.
Thank goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

CichlidJynx

Member
So I’ve been doing some research and looked into the acidification through nitrates and you can actually use nitrates to lower your pH. As your nitrates build up they will make small amounts of acids, those acids will build over time causing OTS, as OTS starts to set in it will lower your pH and when it gets to where you want you can start doing small water changes again to maintain that specific pH.
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
CichlidJynx said:
So I’ve been doing some research and looked into the acidification through nitrates and you can actually use nitrates to lower your pH. As your nitrates build up they will make small amounts of acids, those acids will build over time causing OTS, as OTS starts to set in it will lower your pH and when it gets to where you want you can start doing small water changes again to maintain that specific pH.
Cool. So I just don't do a water change for a little? Not super high tho.
 

CichlidJynx

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
Cool. So I just don't do a water change for a little? Not super high tho.
Correct, don’t water change for a while and it should build up acids to lower your pH
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

Member
Ok, cool! Wont a pwc rise the ph tho?
 

CichlidJynx

Member
Amazoniantanklvr said:
Ok, cool! Wont a pwc rise the ph tho?
Yes, that’s why you would have to do small water changes. You kinda want the pH the bounce .2-.3 . I would leave it until the pH drops then do a 10-20% wc and monitor the pH during the week until you have it dialed in
 

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