Angelfish swimming vertically

I have a lot of experience with angels....as many of you know....but I am having a new issue with a very special angel of mine and it is making me nervous.

He is a male platinum pearlscale angelfish and he is part of a breeding pair. Several of you on fishlore know all about him and his babies. (the lone survivor baby for instance) He and his wife lived together temporarily in a 20 gallon for the last 3 months working on perfecting making babies for me. (they normally live in a 55 gallon) And I have had him for almost 2 years.

They had been doing very well in there, but With the most recent batch of eggs, mom and dad were getting particularly brutal with each other and would not stop fighting. I finally decided to remove dad for a bit. He is now living in a 46 gallon with 5 juvenile angels (quarter sized). That is my angelfish grow-out tank and I was nervous about putting him with the juvies (more worried for them than him!) but they have lived peacefully for several days now. He won't be in this tank for more than another week or two tops.

Anyway, the water in both tanks (the one he was in and the one he is in now) is pristine. Both tanks get 3 water changes a week and are in perfect condition. When I moved him...I noticed he was continuing to look straight up towards the surface like he was looking for food. But he rarely goes back to normal. He has spent a LOT of time swimming vertically like that and it just makes it look like he is sick or something. He started behaving that way immediately when I put him in the 46 gallon. I figured he was just a bit stressed from the move and he would go back to normal. But he has continued to swim vertically quite a bit. He is not swimming like a healthy angelfish should swim. Now...considering he was already acting that way the second I put him in the other tank....it leads me to believe the issues had already started when he was in the 20 gallon with his wife but I just didn't notice??? I don't know!

He is eating well, but not as "excitedly" as he normally eats. He has normal poop. He doesn't appear to have any cosmetic injuries of any kind from fighting with the female....in a still photo he looks like a stunning healthy angel...but his movements say otherwise. He does look a bit plump in the belly area. In fact he has for quite a while now. He just always looks like he has a full belly.... Any ideas of what could be wrong with him? I have done a little bit of googling and found things like maybe swim bladder issues? What exactly does that even mean though? Despite being in this hobby for over 4 years now...I have been incredibly lucky and have not had much experience with illnesses......so I am feeling like a beginner at the moment.

I am really worried about my daddy angel!!!! Is there a chance it is just depression? LOL I mean...I did take him away from his wife and kids......

 

Maybe @Tolak can help. Alison

Could you also post 3 pictures one from each side and also a front on shot that shows the belly. It might help them figure out what if anything is wrong. Alison

 

It may be a early sign of inflammation in the swim bladder. I had a Platy do the same thing but it was too late to save him because I was gone for a week. Right before I left I saw he was acting weird and swimming at the top (vertically) and looking like he was waiting to be fed. But I didnt know so I thought he was just stressed. So the next week I come home and he was laying dead on the gravel. :'(

 

Could you also post 3 pictures one from each side and also a front on shot that shows the belly. It might help them figure out what if anything is wrong. Alison

Here's the best I could do. I could post a video also if that's helpful. He's also been Crossing his ventral fins a lot which isn't normal either

 

Please do a video. It seems like your fish might just be missing his partner and wants to forgive her for what he has done

 

He is beautiful but I can see the belly bulge. I hope somebody will come to help, I see why you're concerned. Alison

 

Please do a video. It seems like your fish might just be missing his partner and wants to forgive her for what he has done

Ignore all the baby pleco poop on the sand back there. Lol I've got 4 baby plecos growing out in there too... which is why this tank gets three or more water changes a week. Trust me the water parameters are excellent 0, 0 and 10

 

Its good you keep the water parahments up!!

 

Beautiful angel, I hope he doesn't have anything serious! With the light behind him in the video I can see his organs in silhouette. Do they look normal to you? I was wondering if angels can suffer from displaced organs like some deep-chested dog breeds and other animals. Maybe his stomach/intestines shifted and squished his swim bladder more toward his head.

 

How is he doing today? Alison

 

How is he doing today? Alison

He is doing terrible Alison. I think I might have to consider euthanasia. If he's in pain I don't want to make him keep suffering. But he can barely even swim anymore. He's spending time just laying on the ground. I think it's a lost cause and I can't stop crying. I have a lot of tanks and a lot of fish but he was one of my top 3.

I am so grateful I was able to get some of his babies before this happened. Or else this would have been even more devastating.

 

Have you tried feeding him shelled peas in case he has a blockage or swim bladder issue? Alison

 

Have you tried feeding him shelled peas in case he has a blockage or swim bladder issue? Alison

It's too late for that. I just don't understand why the symptoms were immediate after moving him. You don't develop a problem like that the second you hit new water...... but it really did seem to come out of nowhere... in the water in each of those tanks is virtually identical. I tested them.

It's definitely a swim bladder issue but the only way peas would work is if the swim bladder issue was caused by constipation which in this case I do not think it was...... with all the reading I've done I think the best bet is that there was damage to his swim bladder when doing all the fighting with his wife... at least I hope that's what it is or else his wife and the fish he is with right now might be at risk... because I have read that swim bladder issues can also be caused by bacteria infections or parasites or whatever.... but again I think there would have been ugly poop in that case which there was not....

 

I just want to say that I'm very sorry this is happening. He's a beautiful angel.

 

Truly saddened by this news. He is a beautiful boy, and I am so sorry you are having this difficulty. I wish I could say something more comforting...

 

Well he's not laying on the bottom anymore which is an improvement from the first hour when I turned the light on today. And he even just ate a little bit of food. I'm not saying that means there's hope..... but he doesn't look as desperate as he did this morning.... but he's still in bad shape. I do not want to have any false hope

 

I'm hoping for the best!

 

Hugs to you and keeping my fingers crossed. Alison

 

I am really sorry to hear that your beautiful little guy is in such distress. Have you thought about putting him back in with his lady? It truly is possible that he is mourning himself to death

 

I am really sorry to hear that your beautiful little guy is in such distress. Have you thought about putting him back in with his lady? It truly is possible that he is mourning himself to death

You know what..... I really like that idea!!

except their newest babies are just starting to come off the leaf and starting to swim. So mom is busy taking care of them and I don't think that she would comfort him much.....

If those babies were not in there it would be so interesting to see if there's anything that the support of his partner could do.....

 

You know what..... I really like that idea!!

except their newest babies are just starting to come off the leaf and starting to swim. So mom is busy taking care of them and I don't think that she would comfort him much.....

If those babies were not in there it would be so interesting to see if there's anything that the support of his partner could do.....

If I had to make a choice between losing him or disrupting moms care giving to the babies I would have to choose him. Just being in the same tank as she is may be all that is needed. I have experienced what happens to a dog when he loses his partner and it is heartbreaking. I am just wondering if the same can happen with fish.

 

If I had to make a choice between losing him or disrupting moms care giving to the babies I would have to choose him. Just being in the same tank as she is may be all that is needed. I have experienced what happens to a dog when he loses his partner and it is heartbreaking. I am just wondering if the same can happen with fish.

I suppose I could try but I'm afraid that she'll start beating him up. The two of them were fighting pretty bad.... that's why I had to remove him in the first place. They get along well as long as they aren't protecting eggs. Then they just fight with each other...

 

Is there any way you can put him where he can see her? That might be the second best option.

A little story. years ago I raised some betta fry. Once they got big enough I put the boys in 1 gallon jars but kept all the females together in a 10 gallon tank. If I remember correctly I had at least 15 females. One of them decoded she wanted to start attacking her sisters. I removed her but kept her in a jar right beside the tank. I kept her like that for about 48 hours. I then put her back in the tank with her sisters and she never tried to bully again.

I am hoping that all he needed was a time out and once he can be put back in with his lady he will not try to hurt her again. I just hope he survives because, to tell the truth, he is the most beautiful Angel I have ever seen.

 

I'm sorry to hear this, I hope he pulls through x

 

Nice vid, it helps. I wouldn't feed at all, epsom salt baths 2, maybe 3x daily, in the hopes it's a constipation issue. Mix a fresh batch of epsom & water each time, a tablespoon or 2 of epsom per gallon of water. This has a great laxative effect, it's where I would start.

The feed a pea thing comes from way back, goldfish folks, who do mainly herbivorous fish. Works great for them, for a fish that may be constipated, and needs a more meaty diet it tends to add to the problem.

If the epsom doesn't do the trick after 2-3 days it's antibiotic time.

 

Nice vid, it helps. I wouldn't feed at all, epsom salt baths 2, maybe 3x daily, in the hopes it's a constipation issue. Mix a fresh batch of epsom & water each time, a tablespoon or 2 of epsom per gallon of water. This has a great laxative effect, it's where I would start.

The feed a pea thing comes from way back, goldfish folks, who do mainly herbivorous fish. Works great for them, for a fish that may be constipated, and needs a more meaty diet it tends to add to the problem.

If the epsom doesn't do the trick after 2-3 days it's antibiotic time.

Thanks Tolak you are the best

He is still alive today....so I will give the Epsom baths a try

Just out of curiosity though, do you think this could have been damage to the swim bladder from fighting with his wife? And if so.... can he heal? Or would the damage be permanent? Hypothetically speaking....

Thanks so much for your support

 

It could be, it could also be stress from that causing a bit of digestive trouble.

 

It could be, it could also be stress from that causing a bit of digestive trouble.

Should I use tank water, or fresh dechlorinated tap water for the salt baths?

Alright I went ahead and used tank water for the salt bath. I put two gallons in a bucket with 2 tablespoons of Epsom salt. Put dad in there for 5 minutes, and now he's back in the 46 gallon. I plan to give him one more bath tonight before I go to bed...

 

I hope that does the trick!

 

Well dad is still alive so far. But I don't have high hopes. Two salt baths later and daddy has pooped twice. So if the swim bladder issues were caused by constipation, you would think he would be improving after a couple poops....but he has not. And the good news is that the poops were normal looking poops....so It leads me to believe the swim bladder issues are NOT related to a parasite or disease...so his tank mates should be ok?

With that being said...I really do think the damage was in fact caused by a bad blow from his wife.

Its odd to me that he is even still alive. Usually once a fish starts swimming like he is drunk and laying on the ground and showing those behaviors....they typically are dead within 24 hours. But my daddy just keeps on fighting! He has been this way for about 5 days now.....I hope he is not in terrible pain or anything!!

 

Now that momma fish has eaten her babies have you considered putting him back in with her just in case he is just heartbroken? I am an optimist so hoping that he will heal

 

Now that momma fish has eaten her babies have you considered putting him back in with her just in case he is just heartbroken? I am an optimist so hoping that he will heal

Ya, I will probably put him back with her tonight when I get home. I just wanted to make sure that the babies were truly gone and not being hidden somewhere by mom. It wasn't the babies I was concerned about. I just know that if I had put him back while the babies were still there, she would have started beating him up again.

It wasn't until late last night that the last little swimmer seemingly disappeared. I am really bummed about it actually. I really thought it would be fun to watch mom care for them. But she gave up on them very quickly once they started swimming. But that was her very first time with live swimmers....so.....she just wasn't prepared for the challenge I guess.

I will look forward to seeing if dad's behavior changes if I put him back with her. I plan to give him one more salt bath this afternoon on my lunch break...not that he really needs it since he has been pooping...but why not.

And then this evening when I get home from work for the day, I will put him back with his wife. I can't do that at lunch because I won't be able to stay and keep an eye on them. It would be SOOOO precious if this was truly just a broken heart. But I highly doubt it! We'll find out though!!

 

Do Angelfish usually share the parenting chore? If so then maybe she was just overwhelmed specially since she is so new to the task. I am following Marks thread too and am learning a lot about what to do and what not to do

I have my fingers crossed hoping that he will pull out of his downward spiral.

 

Good luck! I hope he pulls through x

 

Do Angelfish usually share the parenting chore? If so then maybe she was just overwhelmed specially since she is so new to the task. I am following Marks thread too and am learning a lot about what to do and what not to do

I have my fingers crossed hoping that he will pull out of his downward spiral.

Yes, they do share the parenting responsibilities...but she only had 14 babies. I mean come on!! An experienced breeding pair would typically have like 100 babies!! She could handle 14! But there is a very good chance not having her partner once they started swimming stressed her out.

She should have just left them alone. They had no predators in their tank to worry about. And when I put food in there, mom wouldn't let them eat. She would grab them in her mouth and put them back in their place. Part of me thinks she may have accidently ate some of them. cuz when I put food in for her, she took a couple bites and halfway through her meal she spit out a baby. So...she may have had more babies in her mouth while eating and they didn't make it out? I don't know. So many possibilities. But they are definitely gone which is a bummer. But maybe it will end up being good for dad. I'll let you know!!

Good luck! I hope he pulls through x

Thanks for the support, this has been a tough pill to swallow.

I actually just ordered some pearlscale angels online...the idea of losing my pearlscale daddy was just too much to bare!! I am a little mad at myself though. lol

But the goal is to be able to breed my daddy's babies with angels other than their own siblings. And then since the ones I bought are pearlscale, then with my babies having that gene recessively (thanks to their dad), most likely THEIR babies will give me pearlscales just like their "grandpa". And maybe I will be even luckier and "grandpa" will still be around to see them!!! But that isn't looking very likely....

I am nervous cuz the ones I ordered are from Angelmania.net and from what I Understand, they are the same size and the same age as CHARMING!!!! How they handle the shipping process I do not know! But I am crossing my fingers that they arrive in good shape. And I will treat them the same way I am treating Charming, because at this size and age, they are still fry in my opinion!

 

Ooooh, I've spent some time on that site drooling over their angels! I'll never order any, but it's fun to dream

 

Ooooh, I've spent some time on that site drooling over their angels! I'll never order any, but it's fun to dream

Ya....Previously I have only drooled over their angels as well. I had no intention of ever buying from them. And I actually discouraged others because I felt they were being sold/shipped at way too young of an age. LOL And what did I do? I gave in!! I caved!! Although When I have looked at their angels in the past, I hadn't yet raised my own angels. Now that I have raised angels, I am not nervous about their size...because I feel that as long as they arrive in good shape, I should have no trouble nursing them into big beauties!!

I placed my order last night and he ships on Mondays. So I am bummed that I now have to wait until next Monday because of the fact that I ordered so late on sunday. Patience is not my strong suit. LOL

 

I'm jealous! I can't wait to see pics of them. And I don't blame you, I would be impatient as well.

 

They sure are a beautiful fish. I don't blame you one little bit it will be nice to have a tank full of them. How many did you order? Alison

 

They sure are a beautiful fish. I don't blame you one little bit it will be nice to have a tank full of them. How many did you order? Alison

Four

I wanted to get more....but I was worried about space. I do have 14 tanks...but still!! lol