Angelfish genetics- ghost angelfish

erinw347

Member
One of my angel pairs laid eggs, and I have successfully hatched the fry. The mom is the typical silver angel with stripes- the dad is I believe a blushing angelfish. Based on genetics, I believe that means 100% of the fry will be “ghosts”. I’m just confused on what the definition of the ghost coloring is? Because upon googling, there are a lot of different varieties. I’m just so curious to see what the fry look like. Pictures of the parents are attached. Thanks!
(Mom and dad)
9A8B7CEA-2AFC-4504-A9B5-49F8CA75C7B2.jpeg

(dad)

FAE1BB48-6958-42DB-B54D-0B1504D02BFE.jpeg
 

jake37

Member
adding bizaliz3 who seems to know everything about angel genetics.
 

bizaliz3

Member
You are on the right track.

Yes, a blusher and a silver will produce 100% ghosts. But a ghost can come in ANY variety. It is not color related. Any color morph can carry one stripeless gene making it genetically a "ghost".

Basically, a ghost carries one stripeless gene (a blusher carries two) So every baby got one stripeless gene from the blushing parent.

The stripeless gene removes stripes from a silver. So a silver ghost (which is what I expect you to get) will look like your silver with no stripes. But if you were to have a gold or gold marble or several other types....you wouldn't know if it was a ghost (one stripeless gene) unless you bred it. A single stripeless gene can be hidden on several phenotypes.

I have gold marbles that I have proven to be ghosts through breeding. But it is still just a gold marble as far as the phenotype is concerned. The genotype would be gold marble ghost.

If your blusher was a koi, or a sunset or a Paraiba or some other type of blusher, your results would be greater. But your blusher is a silver blusher. So you should just get 100% silver ghosts.
 
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erinw347

Member
bizaliz3 said:
You are on the right track.

Yes, a blusher and a silver will produce 100% ghosts. But a ghost can come in ANY variety. It is not color related. Any color morph can carry one stripeless gene making it genetically a "ghost".

Basically, a ghost carries one stripeless gene (a blusher carries two) So every baby got one stripeless gene from the blushing parent.

The stripeless gene removes stripes from a silver. So a silver ghost (which is what I expect you to get) will look like your silver with no stripes. But if you were to have a gold or gold marble or several other types....you wouldn't know if it was a ghost (one stripeless gene) unless you bred it. A single stripeless gene can be hidden on several phenotypes.

I have gold marbles that I have proven to be ghosts through breeding. But it is still just a gold marble as far as the phenotype is concerned. The genotype would be gold marble ghost.

If your blusher was a koi, or a sunset or a Paraiba or some other type of blusher, your results would be greater. But your blusher is a silver blusher. So you should just get 100% silver ghosts.
This was very helpful. Thank you. So I have another pair, a silver and a koi. Does this mean I won’t know what the babies will be?
 

bizaliz3

Member
erinw347 said:
This was very helpful. Thank you. So I have another pair, a silver and a koi. Does this mean I won’t know what the babies will be?
Not necessarily. But you will learn things about each of them through their babies.

What we do know for sure is that koi are blushers, so again you will have 100% babies that are genetically ghosts.

Koi can be gm/gm (Gm= gold marble) or they can be Gm/g (g=gold)

If the koi is gm/g, you will have 50% silver gold marble ghosts and 50% silver ghosts.

If the koi is gm/gm you will have 100% silver gold marble ghosts.

A silver gold marble looks different than a regular gold marble. They will have the same body color as a silver, but black splotches from the gold marble gene.

Last but not least....in BOTH of your pairs, there is always a slight chance that the silvers and silver blusher could carry a recessive gold gene.

In this pair, if the silver happens to have a recessive gold gene and the koi is gm/gm...then half the babies will be regular gold marbles and the other half silver gold marbles. If the koi is gm/g you would get 25% gold marble, 25% gold, 25% silver gold marble and 25% silver ghosts.

In the other pair, the only way a recessive gold gene would make any difference is if BOTH parents carry one. In which case, 25% would be sunsets (gold blushers)

This is what I enjoy most about breeding angelfish. Learning about their hidden genetics through breeding them. hehe
 

jake37

Member
Is the lesson from this information - use platinum instead of silver ?

bizaliz3 said:
Not necessarily. But you will learn things about each of them through their babies.

What we do know for sure is that koi are blushers, so again you will have 100% babies that are genetically ghosts.

Koi can be gm/gm (Gm= gold marble) or they can be Gm/g (g=gold)

If the koi is gm/g, you will have 50% silver gold marble ghosts and 50% silver ghosts.

If the koi is gm/gm you will have 100% silver gold marble ghosts.

A silver gold marble looks different than a regular gold marble. They will have the same body color as a silver, but black splotches from the gold marble gene.

Last but not least....in BOTH of your pairs, there is always a slight chance that the silvers and silver blusher could carry a recessive gold gene.

In this pair, if the silver happens to have a recessive gold gene and the koi is gm/gm...then half the babies will be regular gold marbles and the other half silver gold marbles. If the koi is gm/g you would get 25% gold marble, 25% gold, 25% silver gold marble and 25% silver ghosts.

In the other pair, the only way a recessive gold gene would make any difference is if BOTH parents carry one. In which case, 25% would be sunsets (gold blushers)

This is what I enjoy most about breeding angelfish. Learning about their hidden genetics through breeding them. hehe
 

bizaliz3

Member
jake37 said:
Is the lesson from this information - use platinum instead of silver ?
That would be a matter of preference

If we replace the silver in each pair with a platinum....a couple things come to mind first. Platinums carry two blue genes, and the koi and silver blusher probably don't carry a blue gene recessively. So you can probably count the blue genes out. (if the koi and blusher do happen to have a recessive blue gene, the list of phenotypes produced will grow)

Platinums also carry two gold genes, so every baby would have one recessive gold gene. Also, two gold genes can mask many other genes....so a platinum angelfish (which carry two gold genes) could also have hidden genes like zebra, smokey and stripeless for instance.

Basically any time you use a gold (or platinum) for breeding, there are a lot of question marks due to the genes they can hide. So I can't really predict what you would get from a platinum and koi, or platinum and silver blusher. You can learn a lot about the platinum or gold parent by breeding them with a non-gold.
 
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erinw347

Member
bizaliz3 said:
That would be a matter of preference

If we replace the silver in each pair with a platinum....a couple things come to mind first. Platinums carry two blue genes, and the koi and silver blusher probably don't carry a blue gene recessively. So you can probably count the blue genes out. (if the koi and blusher do happen to have a recessive blue gene, the list of phenotypes produced will grow)

Platinums also carry two gold genes, so every baby would have one recessive gold gene. Also, two gold genes can mask many other genes....so a platinum angelfish (which carry two gold genes) could also have hidden genes like zebra, smokey and stripeless for instance.

Basically any time you use a gold (or platinum) for breeding, there are a lot of question marks due to the genes they can hide. So I can't really predict what you would get from a platinum and koi, or platinum and silver blusher. You can learn a lot about the platinum or gold parent by breeding them with a non-gold.
I believe my silver blusher might carry a blue gene, as he has some blue shine (if that’s how it works anyways.) Just thought Id put that in lol. Thanks so much for chiming in on that... that definitely grows my excitement about my pair with the koi.

(Dad)

00C5A76C-339E-49F6-A910-9BD2DA613914.jpeg


And here is my other pair. Koi is male, silver is female. (White angel in the picture is no longer relevant to this mix as she was rehomed.)

D39CD6A2-A2B4-4022-B9B6-A255DE07CD58.jpeg

And this picture of the male here is an older picture, so he looks rather young and has changed color slightly but not much
A4FC6D19-592B-4B7E-B631-6466ABEAFF4C.jpeg
 
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erinw347

Member
Hello again! My angelfish fry are doing very well. I ended up with 8- not very many, but I’m pleased with how they are developing!!

My question now is, I’m wondering if it’s possible Dad is actually a ghost... some have quite bold stripes!!
Here is was they look like.
1AB9DE07-B2DF-4132-9836-DB7D63F984ED.jpeg

ACD1F32E-D657-42D6-9005-E84690A30347.jpeg

B2EA7D2B-F00E-4E1A-AEFD-6BF06214ADC3.jpeg

65251E79-F1D7-411D-9F27-366BA02DE5C1.jpeg

ACB5DC62-097C-4DF5-9A27-7FDA0043AA92.jpeg
 

bizaliz3

Member
No, the dad is 100% a blusher. Not a ghost. Your babies are ghosts. Some will get more black markings than others.
They look great! Nice job!
 

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