Angelfish fry suddenly dying

So basically I had 2 batches of angelfish fry . Batch 1 from a pair of gold marbles while batch 2 is a gold female x male platinum. The fry grew up with their parents for a month and I didn't had room for two tanks I only had a 120 gallon(new tank) available so I filled up 50% of the tank with water from the parent tank while the remaining 50% of the tank is filled up with boiled cooled down dechlorinated water it's been a week and everyday I get casualties from the gold x platinum fry while the marbles are strong no deaths from the marbles I'm feeding them bbs, hikari first bites and spirulina powder. Their currently pea sized. Really need help as I have raised a previous 3 batches from the gold x platinum pair with no issues like thia

 

Couple factors in play here that it could be.
Angel fry die for about the first two months, 1-2-3-4 maybe 6 a day kind of normal with large spawns, of course it trickles off as they grow older and should see less deaths. if the parents spawn small, it can be devastating to your spawn count that makes it to market. If they are spawning 300+ at a time, and you lose 100 not a big deal.

For raising fry its recommended to stay small tank and frequent small feeding and frequent water changes, the thing is the fish have small stomachs and the more energy they spend swimming around to get food, the less they can grow, there is also a point where they expend more calories that they take in from feedings and starve off. Tank size and competition.

I don't think with the size of the tank that you are using, that water quality is the issue. However if the fry from the platxgold pair aren't as strong as the marble fry or younger than the marbles the marble fry will outcompete them for the food in a tank that size and they will have to run to get the food and if they don't, don't get enough and starve. Only the strong survive in that case.

That's what I think is going on. Marbles are outcompeting the platxgold fry.

I would suggest a tank divider and splitting the fish either by size or by spawn (I'd think size is the better solution) so it's more even competition. This also helps with the normal die offs in that first two months of life. The fry don't have fat stores so just swimming and not eating enough will make them drop.
Even dropping in 3 or 4 dividers and size sorting them, it will reduce how far they have to go to eat, and even out the competition for it.

I don't know your feeding schedule but, you can feed every 4 hours really, 6x a day. Kind of critical that they get enough to eat, put on fat and gain mass to grow. I feed something they can eat in 30 seconds roughly every 4-6 hours. Minimum time has to be 4 hours or they will just poop out the last meal and not retain much from it any faster than every 4 hours isn't effective and wasteful. Really, 3-6 feedings a day minimum will keep them in energy, putting on mass and growing, and you also need to keep increasing the amount of food as they grow, but just getting them the extra when they are really young will make them less prone to die off from over exertion or competition and increase your yield.

Hoping this helps some. I raised my fry from the start on only hikari first bites and transitioned to flake that was finely ground and worked up to just flakes. Nothing wrong with the food you are using the problem isn't there, just saying it's more about getting mass on them and some fat stores in that first 8 weeks and limiting death by sorting the fast growers that are thriving from runs that are behind the curve and then the average crowd. If you have the room to sort by sizelike with a divider it will reduce competition and deaths. And the runs will also catch up again.

 

Couple factors in play here that it could be.
Angel fry die for about the first two months, 1-2-3-4 maybe 6 a day kind of normal with large spawns, of course it trickles off as they grow older and should see less deaths. if the parents spawn small, it can be devastating to your spawn count that makes it to market. If they are spawning 300+ at a time, and you lose 100 not a big deal.

For raising fry its recommended to stay small tank and frequent small feeding and frequent water changes, the thing is the fish have small stomachs and the more energy they spend swimming around to get food, the less they can grow, there is also a point where they expend more calories that they take in from feedings and starve off. Tank size and competition.

I don't think with the size of the tank that you are using, that water quality is the issue. However if the fry from the platxgold pair aren't as strong as the marble fry or younger than the marbles the marble fry will outcompete them for the food in a tank that size and they will have to run to get the food and if they don't, don't get enough and starve. Only the strong survive in that case.

That's what I think is going on. Marbles are outcompeting the platxgold fry.

I would suggest a tank divider and splitting the fish either by size or by spawn (I'd think size is the better solution) so it's more even competition. This also helps with the normal die offs in that first two months of life. The fry don't have fat stores so just swimming and not eating enough will make them drop.
Even dropping in 3 or 4 dividers and size sorting them, it will reduce how far they have to go to eat, and even out the competition for it.

I don't know your feeding schedule but, you can feed every 4 hours really, 6x a day. Kind of critical that they get enough to eat, put on fat and gain mass to grow. I feed something they can eat in 30 seconds roughly every 4-6 hours. Minimum time has to be 4 hours or they will just poop out the last meal and not retain much from it any faster than every 4 hours isn't effective and wasteful. Really, 3-6 feedings a day minimum will keep them in energy, putting on mass and growing, and you also need to keep increasing the amount of food as they grow, but just getting them the extra when they are really young will make them less prone to die off from over exertion or competition and increase your yield.

Hoping this helps some. I raised my fry from the start on only hikari first bites and transitioned to flake that was finely ground and worked up to just flakes. Nothing wrong with the food you are using the problem isn't there, just saying it's more about getting mass on them and some fat stores in that first 8 weeks and limiting death by sorting the fast growers that are thriving from runs that are behind the curve and then the average crowd. If you have the room to sort by sizelike with a divider it will reduce competition and deaths. And the runs will also catch up again.

But the gold marble fry are smaller and are younger by a week but I have read some sites claiming that the blue blood angelfish (the platinum genetics) are sensitive than the rest is it true????

 

But the gold marble fry are smaller and are younger by a week but I have read some sites claiming that the blue blood angelfish (the platinum genetics) are sensitive than the rest is it true????

Platinum genetics tend to grow smaller and die younger, sort of like albino does. I don't know about "sensitive" though, the ones I have had dealt with the same water as everyone else, which for me is nothing special for adults, but angel fry in general are sensitve to bacteria and platinum fry might be more sensitive to bacteria or something like that.
I prefer small tank for fry rasing until they have to move to a larger growout. It's hard to keep the tank clean if it's too big, you can water change but the waste and stuff on the bottom tends to get really tedious to keep after and on top of, and yeah if the angel fry eat off the bottom and pick up an internal bacterial infection they aren't hardy enough to really take it as fry and deal with treatment for it. They just stop eating and decline rapidly.

Like I said there's a lot of factors that could be the cause, maybe genetics, maybe poor nutriton in the pair in the run up to the spawning. The 120 might have low nitrates and great as far as water parameters are concerned, but its a ton of space to keep after and keep clean of waste and a lot of space for the fish to swim around in that burns calories looking for things to eat, it's more forgiving on nitrates, less forgiving on waste cleanup and feeding everyone effectively.
You can't do anything about genetics except change the pair, BUT, you said that they spawned without problems before, so there is likely a correctable cause here. If it's the first time using the 120g for this, I'd suspect it's a difference in the water volume that is leading to the extra losses.

By the way, what are the losses we are talking about here? Ball Park estimate on the spawn size, how many pea sized angels, also estimated, and a guess at average daily deaths would be helpful.

If it was a weak spawn size/ poorer hatch rate, it could just be developmental issues with them, bad immune systems, organ failures that appear later.

All you can do is try to diagnose and fix what the issue might be. Some spawns I'm losing 3-4-5 fry a day for the first 6 weeks of life but the spawns are massive and in the hundreds to half a thousand. Everyone I talked to about angelfish fry recommended keeping them in a small tank and daily water changes and bottom vac and walking the line of "they got to move its too small" rather than going large tank with them, the reasons for that I already stated. You did have to move them from the parents at 1 month, they would have harassed the parents with nipping and caused the parents that can't swim away from them to kill them. I do think the 120 is too big for the fry though at the age they are, makes it costly and time consuming for water changes and cleaning.

 

Platinum genetics tend to grow smaller and die younger, sort of like albino does. I don't know about "sensitive" though, the ones I have had dealt with the same water as everyone else, which for me is nothing special for adults, but angel fry in general are sensitve to bacteria and platinum fry might be more sensitive to bacteria or something like that.
I prefer small tank for fry rasing until they have to move to a larger growout. It's hard to keep the tank clean if it's too big, you can water change but the waste and stuff on the bottom tends to get really tedious to keep after and on top of, and yeah if the angel fry eat off the bottom and pick up an internal bacterial infection they aren't hardy enough to really take it as fry and deal with treatment for it. They just stop eating and decline rapidly.

Like I said there's a lot of factors that could be the cause, maybe genetics, maybe poor nutriton in the pair in the run up to the spawning. The 120 might have low nitrates and great as far as water parameters are concerned, but its a ton of space to keep after and keep clean of waste and a lot of space for the fish to swim around in that burns calories looking for things to eat, it's more forgiving on nitrates, less forgiving on waste cleanup and feeding everyone effectively.
You can't do anything about genetics except change the pair, BUT, you said that they spawned without problems before, so there is likely a correctable cause here. If it's the first time using the 120g for this, I'd suspect it's a difference in the water volume that is leading to the extra losses.

By the way, what are the losses we are talking about here? Ball Park estimate on the spawn size, how many pea sized angels, also estimated, and a guess at average daily deaths would be helpful.

If it was a weak spawn size/ poorer hatch rate, it could just be developmental issues with them, bad immune systems, organ failures that appear later.

All you can do is try to diagnose and fix what the issue might be. Some spawns I'm losing 3-4-5 fry a day for the first 6 weeks of life but the spawns are massive and in the hundreds to half a thousand. Everyone I talked to about angelfish fry recommended keeping them in a small tank and daily water changes and bottom vac and walking the line of "they got to move its too small" rather than going large tank with them, the reasons for that I already stated. You did have to move them from the parents at 1 month, they would have harassed the parents with nipping and caused the parents that can't swim away from them to kill them. I do think the 120 is too big for the fry though at the age they are, makes it costly and time consuming for water changes and cleaning.

But both of this spawns are large the marbles laid eggs at 4 different areas ( drift wood , breeding cone back of the tank and the indian almond leave) while the platxgold laid on the side of the tank and the cone and this is my first time handling large spawns like this

 

But both of this spawns are large the marbles laid eggs at 4 different areas ( drift wood , breeding cone back of the tank and the indian almond leave) while the platxgold laid on the side of the tank and the cone and this is my first time handling large spawns like this

How many are dying per day?

 

How many are dying per day?

One to five

 

Couple factors in play here that it could be.
Angel fry die for about the first two months, 1-2-3-4 maybe 6 a day kind of normal with large spawns, of course it trickles off as they grow older and should see less deaths. if the parents spawn small, it can be devastating to your spawn count that makes it to market. If they are spawning 300+ at a time, and you lose 100 not a big deal.

I'm going to disagree with this - in my raising of angels fry - usually the group is between 40 and 80; i only have deaths the first 5 to 7 days and usually due to my errors. frys are extremely sensitive to change in water condition; bad water quality; trace amount of ammonia and so forth. When feeding frys i have to remove all decaying food before the next feeding else that decay will produce enough ammonia to kill frys. It could be genetic issues between parents (most angels are heavily inbred) but i can't say anything definitive in that area but my personal experience has been to keep the water extremely clean; well filtered; very low current and no quick changes in water condition or temp. I tend to grow out my frys in a small container that filters into the main aquarium - the first week or two i will feed them 4 to 6 times a day and clean out any uneaten food i see before the next feeding.

 

I'm going to disagree with this - in my raising of angels fry - usually the group is between 40 and 80; i only have deaths the first 5 to 7 days and usually due to my errors. frys are extremely sensitive to change in water condition; bad water quality; trace amount of ammonia and so forth. When feeding frys i have to remove all decaying food before the next feeding else that decay will produce enough ammonia to kill frys. It could be genetic issues between parents (most angels are heavily inbred) but i can't say anything definitive in that area but my personal experience has been to keep the water extremely clean; well filtered; very low current and no quick changes in water condition or temp. I tend to grow out my frys in a small container that filters into the main aquarium - the first week or two i will feed them 4 to 6 times a day and clean out any uneaten food i see before the next feeding.

I raise mine for the first month with the parents in a 20g. 50% water change daily. I wasn't so concerned with daily deaths as the pair has spawns in the hundreds each spawn, 300-400 fry a pop.

After 1 month I move the parents, the fry ride out the 20g until it's impossible to keep nitrates low anymore and they start stacking up daily with the daily water change, then switch parents back to the 20g and the babies to the 72g to finish grow out to market size. I might of took that for granted.

Probably I lose 100 of them in that first month but still 200 or 300 of them left that do fine. I'd say first week losing like 5 a day or so, then it's drops to less and less losses as time passes, to 1 every few days at the 1 month mark as it trickles off to no more deaths.

Trying a 1 gallon container just wasn't functional for me with so many fry, I'd lose half or more in the first week and all dead by two weeks, I think ammonia being a factor. Sponge filters and daily water changesand a bottom vac were clutch though in the 20g. Just kind of hard to have the filtration/ biofilter needed in a container for me. I'd agree though pretty much feed and in an hour tops water change and vac if you can get away doing it that small, for me the bioload of the fry was just too much to be that small a container. 10g would work for me though but they'd outgrow it too quickly also.

Just kind of proves that there's different situations and different methods of handling the situation depending on a lot of factors.
Yes and 100% Linda1234, missteps and mistakes are costly learning lessons.