Angelfish Expert Advice Please

  1. tfreema Well Known Member Member

    I have some of this information in my Breeding Angelfish Pair thread that I started when I figured out that I had a couple that had paired up and were laying eggs. They ate the first batch within a day. They cared for the second batch for about three days before eating them so I thought hey, we have progress, yay!

    Well, things took a vicious turn with the 3rd batch. I noticed the female was looking a little tattered and he was eating the eggs immediately. And I mean as soon as she laid them he was gobbling them up.

    The next day I came home from work to a very chewed up tail fin on the female
    ImageUploadedByFish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum1466023365.781136.jpg
    Needless to say, I was very upset and sat watching them for a while thinking about what I should do. They were being very aggressive with one another almost the whole time, chasing and bumping one another, shaking and posturing at one another as well as their own reflections in the glass.

    I decided to remove her to a fully cycled 10g QT tank and started Melafix to help heal the poor girl's fins. I did not want to leave her in with him while I am at work all day to be further damaged.

    Here is where I need help in what to do now. I was very excited about having a breeding pair and raising baby angelfish.

    Choices:
    1. Try to reintroduce her back into main tank with him this weekend while I am home to observe. Maybe take him out briefly so she can be reacclimated to the tank before interacting with him again. Rearrange and/or add new deco to change the dynamics of the tank.
    2. Try to introduce another larger koi angel fish to him to see if they will pair up. If so, put other female in the koi's tank.
    3. Take both back to fish store after she is healed up to trade for several baby angels to see if two pair off. (I am quite attached to my fish so this is a hard option for me.)
    4. Move one to my 26g bow front that currently has a pair of Bolivian Rams and 3 peppered cories and keep one in the 45g and just make it a community instead of angel pair tank. I now know the peppered cory needs lower temp. If I trade them in at lfs, chances are someone else will get and keep them in higher temps so I have been keeping temp on the low side for BR at about 75. That is really low for an angelfish though. :-/ AND I wonder if 26g is big enough.

    Note: The tank is a 45g high (36x13x24high), with the only other inhabitants being 5 cory cats.

    This is tough because I love these Angels, but I also bought and set up this tank specially for a pair of angelfish with the hopes of successfully breeding.

    Thanks for any advice, opinions, suggestions you can offer!
     
  2. bizaliz3 Fishlore VIP Member

    Again I am so sorry you are dealing with this. It is frustrating that some angels will pair up but then not get along! Why did they pair up in the first place?! right??!!

    I would be worried about ever putting them together again. It doesn't sound like they have formed a very good bond with eachother. Maybe they haven't even paired. Maybe she wants him as her mate but he doesn't? I don't know. But if I were you I would give up on that pair.

    You could try another larger angel and see what happens....but do you really know the gender of that larger koi angel you want to add?

    I do think your 26 would be big enough for a single angel if you want to try just separating them. But I understand your desire to breed. Would you be ok parting with the bully male angel? And just keep the female? Put the female in the 26, get rid of the mean male and then put 4-6 baby/juvie angels in the 46 until you get a pair....but you still get stuck with having to get rid of some at some point. However, if you breed angels successfully, there is a lot of having to part with angels....and parting with the babies can be just as sad!
     

  3. tfreema Well Known Member Member

    It is definitely frustrating when it seemed I had a mating pair, plus the fact that I just three days before gave up some smaller ones that seemed to be showing signs of pairing off because I just don't have the space for two mating pairs or all the fry.

    The koi angel lays eggs so she is definitely a girl.

    I think I may put the female in the 26 after her fins are healed up. I will need to crank the heat up some which will shorten the lifespan of my peppered cories. I know not to buy those again unless I stock a tank with fish requiring cooler temperatures. She would make a good dither for the rams.

    Big sigh!!!
     
  4. tfreema Well Known Member Member

    ImageUploadedByFish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum1466183768.541496.jpg

    I don't know if you can tell from this picture, but I realized yesterday that the bully I thought was a male is very fat/bloated. Sooooo, either I was wrong about it being a male and she is gravid, or he has dropsy, or a parasite. He/she is acting and swimming normally and eating good. Water tests last night showed 0 ammonia and nitrites, and about 30 nitrates so that's too high. Strange since I just did pwc last week, but maybe I didn't shake the bottle good enough. Will test again after water change.

    I am picking up some peas and Epsom salt today, will perform a large water change, and trade him out tonight with female that is in QT tank so I can focus on him/her.
     
  5. bizaliz3 Fishlore VIP Member

    Can you get a side shot of him/her?
     
  6. tfreema Well Known Member Member

    I am at work right now but here are some others I took last night.

    ImageUploadedByFish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum1466187041.083416.jpg
    ImageUploadedByFish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum1466187054.381258.jpg
    ImageUploadedByFish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum1466187077.726326.jpg
    ImageUploadedByFish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum1466187089.382513.jpg
     
  7. bizaliz3 Fishlore VIP Member

    Hmmm...he/she doesn't really look too bloated in those pics.....and his/her fins look great and healthy.....and if he/she is swimming fine, that is also promising....

    You said he's eating normal...how about pooping? Does the poop look normal?
     
  8. aliray Fishlore VIP Member

    Could they both be females? I have heard of them pairing up but the eggs would not be fertile, unless you can see the breeding tubes. Bizaliz3 can explain how to tell. Alison
     
  9. tfreema Well Known Member Member

    Looks pretty bulgy compared to other Angels that may not show well in pics.

    I did look for and noticed normal looking poop in the tank last night.

    They could be. His/her breeding tube has not protruded like the other one for me to tell for sure. About 1/3 of the eggs did not turn white after 48 hours so I assumed they were fertilized confirming him as a male. I know for sure now it was the marble laying the eggs.

    That would explain the recent aggression though.......
     
  10. bizaliz3 Fishlore VIP Member

    if the breeding tube is not protruding as far as the female's...it could very likely be a male. Their breeding tubes are much smaller and narrower and sometimes not even see-able! I remember my male daddy angel...you could hardly see his at all. Even when he was fertilizing the eggs!

    And angelfish pairs can get NASTY to each other!! They aren't always just nasty to the other angels or fish in the tank, they also get nasty to eachother. It's really sad.
     
  11. tfreema Well Known Member Member

    Maybe I am not cut out for breeding Angels then. It is very difficult to deal with the aggression and the damage it causes. Is it common for one to be chewed up as badly as my marble girl got this week?
     
  12. tfreema Well Known Member Member

    What do you think about a changeover to discus in the 45g high?

    It has a thin layer of sand, a penguin 350 hob and a 3 stage canister filter, and just some fake plants and wood decor. I am thinking about making it my dive into live plants.

    Maybe I should post for advice from discus experts......