Angel Sizes Please Help

I have one large angelfish probably 3inch long. Would it be ok if I added 4 smaller ones that are about a 1 to 1.5. The tank is a 40 breeder, I have great filtration and the only other fish are 2 plecos and a Raphael cat. Let me know your opinions please thanks

 

Maybe Angelfish321 can help with that one.

 

What is your goal for the 4 smaller ones? Your tank is not large enough for 5 adults angels.

As for if they would get along temporarily, that depends on the personality of your current angel. Its totally trial and error with multiple angels. And you should re-scape the tank before adding the new angels.

but again, your tank is not large enough for 5 angelfish long term. I would put no more than 2 adults in a 40 breeder. So if you want to try the 4 small ones for a while, then over time, you can see who your current one likes the best and then keep that one.
There is nothing wrong with growing them out in there (assuming your current angel isn't a bully to them) but you have to be prepared to rehome some of them down the road.

 

My larger angle is is not very aggressive at all and when they get bigger I would like to upgrade to a 75. Right now it is just a grown out until they get larger

 

My larger angle is is not very aggressive at all and when they get bigger I would like to upgrade to a 75. Right now it is just a grown out until they get larger

But the larger angel hasn't been with other Angels yet. (Or has he?) Their aggression is usually saved for other Angels. He's not going to get aggressive with plecos and Raphael cats... so you don't know yet how he will be...

I highly suggest you redecorate before adding them.

 

He has and he was fine. His mate passed a few weeks ago. There was never aggression between them

 

He has and he was fine. His mate passed a few weeks ago. There was never aggression between them

That is different, he was used to her and she was his partner - when they really bond they don't break it, but new angels often trigger aggression even if the angel has been around others previous, they are seen as entering territory, which is why moving decorations/plants around can help alleviate some of that. However your angel may take a dislike to one or more of the angels added and get highly aggressive with them, on the other hand he may be completely enjoy the angels, he may ignore them, you do not know until you try - but you need a backup plan just in case something goes wrong or very wrong.

 

but again, your tank is not large enough for 5 angelfish long term. I would put no more than 2 adults in a 40 breeder.

So what size tank IS appropriate for 5 adults?

 

So what size tank IS appropriate for 5 adults?

That's debatable and not black and white.. But as a reference point Dave125g you have had trouble just getting a few to get along in your 125g right???

You need at least a 4 foot tank to do that many angels in my opinion. Your 3 foot tank will not work long term. (edit, never mind, you are not the OP)

I have 4 in my 4 foot long 55 gallon at any given time. But I have had to shuffle many times due to aggression that arises.

 

I would say at least a 75g. 90g would be better for height IMO.

 

I wouldn't get 5 adults. I would either get 4 or 6. But not in a 40 breeder. If you want 4 adults I would say 55 or 60. 6 adults like a 75 or 100.

 

I have 5 jouveniles (nickle size) in a 60 right now. I'm prepared to rehome when that time comes, but I'd like to keep as many of them as possible... Just thinking ahead.

What's the problem with 5 adults? Pairing would leave one odd man out?

 

I have 5 jouveniles (nickle size) in a 60 right now. I'm prepared to rehome when that time comes, but I'd like to keep as many of them as possible... Just thinking ahead.

What's the problem with 5 adults? Pairing would leave one odd man out?

You can't even have two in a 125g if they don't get along! Its more about how the angels get along than if they can "fit".
Tank size for multiple angels is trial and error. You might have 4 that get along in a 3 foot tank. You might have two that can't even get along in a 6 foot tank.

You just have to wait and see. Lets keep this convo going on your thread

 

I have 8 angels in my 90g, but they are a smaller angelfish and they grew up together. Only one pair has formed so far. All of them get along send the tank is heavily scaped.

In my 120g, I have always kept a minimum of 4 angels, atm I have 9. I always seem to get two pairs in this tank, and they have enough room on each end. The other angels are just added angels. Meaning they don't cause much trouble.

The biggest issues with aggression is when they decide to spawn. Then every other angel and often other fish get chased to the opposite end of the tank. When that happens, the rest of the angels and fish would have to get along in a smaller area.

As mentioned, angelfish each have their own personalities. They are more likely to accept new angels as tank mates if they already are housed with other angels, but it's always best to add new tank mates when the angelfish are still juvies.

So the golden rule for keeping angels is 20 gallon HIGH for the first (I feel 20 gallon is too shallow, better to say 29g), and 10 for each additional angel. Of course that all depends on the tank arrangement and individual angelfish personality.

 

You can't even have two in a 125g if they don't get along! Its more about how the angels get along than if they can "fit".
Tank size for multiple angels is trial and error. You might have 4 that get along in a 3 foot tank. You might have two that can't even get along in a 6 foot tank.

You just have to wait and see. Lets keep this convo going on your thread

wow, just realized I was talking to the same person! LOL

 

That's debatable and not black and white.. But as a reference point Dave125g you have had trouble just getting a few to get along in your 125g right???

You need at least a 4 foot tank to do that many angels in my opinion. Your 3 foot tank will not work long term. (edit, never mind, you are not the OP)

I have 4 in my 4 foot long 55 gallon at any given time. But I have had to shuffle many times due to aggression that arises.

Yea I couldn't get 2 mated pairs to work in my 125. I have 2 males in there now and they fight on occasion. I think multiple males would work (as we have discussed) in a large enough and heavily planted tank.
If you start mixing males and females, that's when the fighting can get out of hand. Problem is it's tough to accurately ID gender on these guys.

 

I think multiple males would work (as we have discussed) in a large enough and heavily planted tank. .

As long as one of those males isn't Sharkbite!! hahahahaha

 

Yea I couldn't get 2 mated pairs to work in my 125. I have 2 males in there now and they fight on occasion. I think multiple males would work (as we have discussed) in a large enough and heavily planted tank.
If you start mixing males and females, that's when the fighting can get out of hand. Problem is it's tough to accurately ID gender on these guys.

Here I will tell you what I did. When I had 4 smaller angels I added an adult male. Everything was perfectly fine. Once I added a female one of the smaller angels started growing faster and starting fighting the adult male. I saw tubes on every angel I had. The two males faught to get her attention. The bigger one did so they literally just layed eggs. Problem is that the other male keeps on trying to fight. Going to move him to his own 20 long soon. So yes, males will do fine together until you add a female. Or you could just do females. Your choice.

 

As long as one of those males isn't Sharkbite!! hahahahaha

Yea all males doesn't always work, as we found out with shark bite. That's 1 mean angel. Lol

 

Here I will tell you what I did. When I had 4 smaller angels I added an adult male. Everything was perfectly fine. Once I added a female one of the smaller angels started growing faster and starting fighting the adult male. I saw tubes on every angel I had. The two males faught to get her attention. The bigger one did so they literally just layed eggs. Problem is that the other male keeps on trying to fight. Going to move him to his own 20 long soon. So yes, males will do fine together until you add a female. Or you could just do females. Your choice. View attachment 468187

Females will spawn with females and often will spawn by themselves, which creates that aggression still.

 

So yes, males will do fine together until you add a female. Or you could just do females. Your choice. View attachment 468187

Be careful making concrete statements based on your limited experience. (and that isn't meant in a nasty way, so please don't get defensive about it) Your smaller males were not even sexually mature adults before you added the female. (you said they grew more after she was added) These are your first adults and you have only had one breeding pair. Your experience with your current angels is just one of MAAAANY different examples of how these things play out. So to say something like "males will do fine if there is no female" is a generalization that shouldn't be made. It completely depends on those males!! An all male tank with no females CAN work. But it often won't work either. It depends on the personalities.

ALSO, an all female tank will almost always NOT work. Females will fight with each other and still even lay eggs and protect those eggs without any males around.

I just want to encourage you to not talk so "black and white" When talking about angels. You have good knowledge to share, I am not discounting your advice, but just don't be so black and white about it. There is a LOT of gray area with angels and it really does depend 100% on their personalities.

Yea all males doesn't always work, as we found out with shark bite. That's 1 mean angel. Lol

Bella is pretty bad too!! An all male tank has potential for sure. But you have to find the right males. And I haven't quite found the right balance yet. If I remove Sharkbite, then Bella will probably get worse again. The males will still fight over who should be the alpha male. And if they can't come to an agreement, the aggression will never stop.

 

Be careful making concrete statements based on your limited experience. (and that isn't meant in a nasty way, so please don't get defensive about it) Your smaller males were not even sexually mature adults before you added the female. (you said they grew more after she was added) These are your first adults and you have only had one breeding pair. Your experience with your current angels is just one of MAAAANY different examples of how these things play out. So to say something like "males will do fine if there is no female" is a generalization that shouldn't be made. It completely depends on those males!! An all male tank with no females CAN work. But it often won't work either. It depends on the personalities.

ALSO, an all female tank will almost always NOT work. Females will fight with each other and still even lay eggs and protect those eggs without any males around.

I just want to encourage you to not talk so "black and white" When talking about angels. You have good knowledge to share, I am not discounting your advice, but just don't be so black and white about it. There is a LOT of gray area with angels and it really does depend 100% on their personalities.



Bella is pretty bad too!! An all male tank has potential for sure. But you have to find the right males.

I had two breeding pairs before, but yes you are right. It really does depends on the angel itself. Just like betas. Can't be black and white which sucks.

 

I had two breeding pairs before, but yes you are right. It really does depends on the angel itself. Just like betas. Can't be black and white which sucks.

Oh ok. I guess I made an assumption that this was your first pair since you have asked questions that a person with their first pair would ask. Not someone with their 3rd pair.
I shouldn't be making assumptions. I apologize!!

Keep in the back of your mind though, don't suggest an all female tank to anyone in the future And don't say that an all male tank will be just fine. You can tell people that an all male tank has potential, but just don't be so black and white about it The angelfish world is way too gray!!!

 

Oh ok. I guess I made an assumption that this was your first pair since you have asked questions that a person with their first pair would ask. Not someone with their 3rd pair.
I shouldn't be making assumptions. I apologize!!

Keep in the back of your mind though, don't suggest an all female tank to anyone in the future And don't say that an all male tank will be just fine. You can tell people that an all male tank has potential, but just don't be so black and white about it The angelfish world is way too gray!!!

I haven't had a pair in two years. My fault sorry. It just feels like when you want a fish to breed they don't but when you do nothing they breed. And yes ma'am!

 

It just feels like when you want a fish to breed they don't but when you do nothing they breed!

STORY OF MY LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'll confirm even 3 month angelfish can be abnormally aggressive. I had this (turned out to be male) platinum angelfish juvenile bite the dorsal fins off two of his blue silver siblings. I moved him to a tank with larger young angels and he was put in his place.

 

Yea I couldn't get 2 mated pairs to work in my 125. I have 2 males in there now and they fight on occasion. I think multiple males would work (as we have discussed) in a large enough and heavily planted tank.

I have a 120 gallon (5ft tank) heavily planted with lots of driftwood and territorial divisions. The tank has changed decor and scape over the years, but I've had many 'schools' of angelfish in this tank. One thing I've noticed though, I feel it is not big enough for 3 strong adult males. I've always only comfortably been able to keep two in there at a time with females.

 

I have a 120 gallon (5ft tank) heavily planted with lots of driftwood and territorial divisions. The tank has changed decor and scape over the years, but I've had many 'schools' of angelfish in this tank. One thing I've noticed though, I feel it is not big enough for 3 strong adult males. I've always only comfortably been able to keep two in there at a time with females.

Yea diplomacy goes out the window when you mix sexes.

 

I'll confirm even 3 month angelfish can be abnormally aggressive. I had this (turned out to be male) platinum angelfish juvenile bite the dorsal fins off two of his blue silver siblings. I moved him to a tank with larger young angels and he was put in his place.

I've had several quarter size angel juveniles that had to go in with my three inch angels because they were terrorizing everyone their size and when they tried to terrorize the big ones that got an answering smack that stopped the attitude.