Angel fish eggs

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MarkN1990

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Ok so anyone who's been following my previous threads will know the situation and luckily my angel fish are, as we speak, laying eggs on the slate I purchased !

Now, I don't have a sponge filter as it hasn't arrived yet. I will have to use a new fluval u3 and turn it right down, but obviously that means it's not cycled. I will take some of the established bio max from my current filter to aid the cycle but my question is this.

At what stage will the eggs start producing ammonia? I don't want the BB that I transfer to starve if no ammonia is produced when they're just eggs.
@aliray

Thanks

Mark

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bizaliz3

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MarkN1990 said:
Now, I don't have a sponge filter as it hasn't arrived yet. I will have to use a new

At what stage will the eggs start producing ammonia? I don't want the BB that I transfer to starve if no ammonia is produced when they're just eggs.
I think that is where the daily 50% water changes come into play!! :)

edit: I have never moved the eggs and done that part myself though. I have only moved the fry as soon as they start swimming. But they require daily water changes for the first few weeks. Maybe Tolak can help with the raising the eggs yourself part of the equation. :)
 

aliray

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Congrats on the new eggs. I guess they really liked your slate. I have never raised or bred angel fish but Tolak and bizaliz3 both do and maybe they can help. I wouldn't think eggs that were fertile would add anything to the bioload. Iwould ask them . hopefully they will see this mention and come to help. Alison
 
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bizaliz3 said:
I think that is where the daily 50% water changes come into play!! :)

edit: I have never moved the eggs and done that part myself though. I have only moved the fry as soon as they start swimming. But they require daily water changes for the first few weeks. Maybe Tolak can help with the raising the eggs yourself part of the equation. :)
Daily water changes when they're free swimming? Or every day from today when they're just eggs

bizaliz3 said:
I think that is where the daily 50% water changes come into play!! :)

edit: I have never moved the eggs and done that part myself though. I have only moved the fry as soon as they start swimming. But they require daily water changes for the first few weeks. Maybe Tolak can help with the raising the eggs yourself part of the equation. :)
Daily water changes when they're free swimming? Or every day from today when they're just eggs
 

bizaliz3

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MarkN1990 said:
Daily water changes when they're free swimming? Or every day from today when they're just eggs
Daily water changes until they've been swimming for a few weeks. At that point I added more filtration to their tank because they were a little bigger and then I started doing water changes twice a week.

I was not able to keep any angel fish fry alive until I started doing daily water changes on their tank and fed them live baby brine shrimp...

 
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This is what I have set up so far. I've removed the eggs. I'll do daily changes starting tomorrow and need to look into baby brine shrimp as I have no idea what to do with them or how to hatch!

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MarkN1990 said:
This is what I have set up so far. I've removed the eggs. I'll do daily changes starting tomorrow and need to look into baby brine shrimp as I have no idea what to do with them or how to hatch!

ImageUploadedByFish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum1458661859.112416.jpg
I am envious that your angels used the slate you gave them!! Mine never would. They insist on leaves or filter intakes. Much harder to remove :) That is part of the reason I haven't tried to raise them from the egg stage.

My little prince charming lone survivor angel was moved after being laid 3 days prior. So just a little wiggler....not free swimming, but no longer at the egg stage. That is the closest I got to removing the fry BEFORE they started swimming.

I think your set up looks great! Congrats on the new batch of eggs, I hope it all works out for you! I am excited to see how it all plays out after removing them at the egg stage. :) Do you have eggs that have turned white? I know you have to remove those since mom and dad are not there to do it...otherwise they will damage the good eggs that are near them.
 
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bizaliz3 said:
I am envious that your angels used the slate you gave them!! Mine never would. They insist on leaves or filter intakes. Much harder to remove :) That is part of the reason I haven't tried to raise them from the egg stage.

My little prince charming lone survivor angel was moved after being laid 3 days prior. So just a little wiggler....not free swimming, but no longer at the egg stage. That is the closest I got to removing the fry BEFORE they started swimming.

I think your set up looks great! Congrats on the new batch of eggs, I hope it all works out for you! I am excited to see how it all plays out after removing them at the egg stage. :) Do you have eggs that have turned white? I know you have to remove those since mom and dad are not there to do it...otherwise they will damage the good eggs that are near them.
No white eggs get - I have some tweezers at the ready though. Please don't be envious yet it probably won't work!!

Just looked in to hatching baby brine shrimp and seems like a lot of effort to hatch them. How about blending frozen bloodworms in tank water, could that work ?
 

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MarkN1990 said:
Just looked in to hatching baby brine shrimp and seems like a lot of effort to hatch them. How about blending frozen bloodworms in tank water, could that work ?
Its really not as much work as it seems. I felt the same way as you. I tried everything before I broke down and made a hatchery. I tried hikari first bites, I tried frozen baby brine shrimp, I tried instant baby brine shrimp (which is sort of like a canned version) I tried finely crushed flakes. I tried everything to AVOID a stupid hatchery....but finally I gave in and made a hatchery because I was not having luck keeping the fry alive. As soon as I started with freshly hatched BBS, it made all the difference in the world.

It is definitely annoying and inconvenient...but it really doesn't require a ton of effort. And it is only for the first couple weeks and then you can start to get them onto other things. I chose to do much smaller hatcheries than what you see on youtube and stuff because I have never had a gigantic spawn. (probably because I wait until they are free swimming...if I moved them as eggs and cared for them myself I might get a much larger spawn)

I use a 16.9 oz bottle and a small air pump and some air tubing. I got my eggs from, I found that to be the best price out there and I use aquarium salt.
 
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Do you have a picture of how your hatchery was set up?

I have some spare airline tubing and can go grab a couple of bottles of water to make something

Do you just have one hatchery for a spawn I assume ?
 

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MarkN1990 said:
Do you have a picture of how your hatchery was set up?

I have some spare airline tubing and can go grab a couple of bottles of water to make something

Do you just have one hatchery for a spawn I assume ?
It depends on the size of your hatchery and size of your spawn.

Here is my mini hatchery...

 

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bizaliz3 said:
It depends on the size of your hatchery and size of your spawn.

Here is my mini hatchery...
Think that's what I'll be doing, just a couple of bottles. That will be enough to satisfy one spawn? Isn't a huge amount of eggs

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bizaliz3 said:
It depends on the size of your hatchery and size of your spawn.

Here is my mini hatchery...
Also, how do you get the BBS out from the hatchery to feed? Do you have to rinse off the salt water ?
 

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MarkN1990 said:
Also, how do you get the BBS out from the hatchery to feed? Do you have to rinse off the salt water ?
I don't know if I should answer this...because the way I do it is NOTHING like how others do it. or how it is "supposed to" be done. And the biggest spawn I have raised was 27 babies. So I don't think my process would even work for a really large spawn.

After 18-24 hours, I turn off the bubbles and shine a flashlight towards the bottom of the bottle and most of the babies will go towards the light. After a little time has passed I take a straw, cover one end with my finger and put the straw to the bottom of the bottle and release my finger and then put my finger back on again really quick. It will suck up a bunch of babies. I then release them into a bowl with tank water in it. Those babies will survive in the bowl for another 12-24 hours. I then use a turkey baster to suck up a bunch of babies from the bowl and put them in the fry tank. As a result a very VERY small amount of salt may get into the tank. But we are talking a very tiny amount!! Most of the water in that bowl of BBS was tank water. It was nothing that caused any problems for my fry. There will still be some BBS in that bowl for the next feeding. Also, Not all of the BBS eggs hatch in those first 24 hours...so The hatchery gets put back under the light with the bubbles and harvested again about 12 hours or so later. After I take out the BBS at that point I start a new batch.

This is what has worked for me for small spawns and it has worked for my one single angel baby I am currently raising. If you have a really large spawn, you will want two hatcheries going and start them maybe 24-36 hours apart. You might want to go larger with your hatcheries too. And my process most likely won't work for a big spawn.

There are tons of videos on youtube showing the "normal" harvesting process. If you haven't already checked it out.
 
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bizaliz3 said:
I don't know if I should answer this...because the way I do it is NOTHING like how others do it. or how it is "supposed to" be done. And the biggest spawn I have raised was 27 babies. So I don't think my process would even work for a really large spawn.

After 18-24 hours, I turn off the bubbles and shine a flashlight towards the bottom of the bottle and most of the babies will go towards the light. After a little time has passed I take a straw, cover one end with my finger and put the straw to the bottom of the bottle and release my finger and then put my finger back on again really quick. It will suck up a bunch of babies. I then release them into a bowl with tank water in it. Those babies will survive in the bowl for another 12-24 hours. I then use a turkey baster to suck up a bunch of babies from the bowl and put them in the fry tank. As a result a very VERY small amount of salt may get into the tank. But we are talking a very tiny amount!! Most of the water in that bowl of BBS was tank water. It was nothing that caused any problems for my fry. There will still be some BBS in that bowl for the next feeding. Also, Not all of the BBS eggs hatch in those first 24 hours...so The hatchery gets put back under the light with the bubbles and harvested again about 12 hours or so later. After I take out the BBS at that point I start a new batch.

This is what has worked for me for small spawns and it has worked for my one single angel baby I am currently raising. If you have a really large spawn, you will want two hatcheries going and start them maybe 24-36 hours apart. You might want to go larger with your hatcheries too. And my process most likely won't work for a big spawn.

There are tons of videos on youtube showing the "normal" harvesting process. If you haven't already checked it out.
Thanks for the detailed response. As you can imagine I've spent all day looking at YouTube! Ordered my shelled eggs today using Prime so will be here shortly.

I only have one spare airpump slot at the moment so unfortunately will only be able to get one batch going at a time. I'm going to use a coffee strainer to separate the BBS and rinse with dechlorinated water, then store these in a tub of tank water for as long as possible and restart the hatching process instantly.

God knows is this will work, not holding out much hope for this batch to be honest but is all a learning process. I'll get another air pump and maybe a more advanced hatchery soon
 

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Pile some of the mature bio max on top of the brand new sponge filter. It will have enough current going through the mature media to provide bio filtration, and will help seed the sponge filter. Back in the day when undergravel filtration was the newest & best plenty of folks did this with gravel when they had to set up a tank in a hurry without a mature sponge filter.

I run just air in hatching tanks until the wigglers are swimmers, then run a sponge filter. Be aware that a sponge filter run at that low of a flow provides very little mechanical filtration, water changes every day are the mechanical part, as well as wiping & siphoning the bottom of the bare tank.

Hatching bbs is pretty easy once you get a routine down. You'll hatch all the bbs you'll ever need at this point with a cut down clear 2 liter bottle. I feed hundreds of fry with a single 2 liter setup, though my hatcher is set up to hold a maximum of a pair of gallon jars. I've rarely had to use a single gallon jar, once you get past around 1/2, maybe 3/4 of a teaspoon of bbs the hatch rate seems to go down, I guess like anything else the little shrimp suffer from overstocking. For a single spawn 1/8 tsp is more than enough for feeding them for a 24 hour period. A little practice hatching bbs before the angels are swimmers won't hurt, many adult species such as corys, loachs & so on will be more than happy to chow down on any extra once it hits the bottom of the tank.

I guess my cut down hatchery holds about 1.5 liters of water, maybe a bit less. I start with straight cold tap, no dechlor, 1.5 tablespoons of salt, half a teaspoon of baking soda to increase water hardness, and two drops of plain chlorine bleach. At 80F I get a hatch every 24 hours, I built a cabinet with a 40w bulb on a dimmer, hold temperature pretty accurately.

Come evening, I pull out the air line, pull out the bottle, park it on a counter with a clamp light shining on the bottom, and go do something else for about 10 minutes. The bbs will settle to the bottom, where the light is shining in that amount of time. I then take my turkey baster, and suck out all the nice orange bbs, squirt them into an old sour cream container that has a hole cut in the lid. That gets set to the side, the plastic bottle setup goes to the sink, gets dumped, refilled with fresh cold tap, & set up for the next evening's bbs harvest. Here's a harvesting trick; the surface will be covered with shells, really not harmful to fry, but makes a mess of the fry tank. Before going at it with the baster rub your nose, touch the surface of the hatcher, the oil in your skin reduces surface tension, the shells all go to the side, giant baster hole just waiting.

By the time the new batch is set up the bbs in the smaller container have settled to the bottom. I ave a large plastic cup with a paper coffee filter rubber banded to it, pull out some shrimp with an eyedropper, squirt it in the filter. I have a used 1 liter water bottle with tap water, a quick rinse for the bbs in the filter, they're ready to feed. For a singe spawn of 200-300 newly swimming fry you'll need 3, maybe 4 drops of bbs in the filter, this will increase as the fry grow. This is why you start with 1/8 tsp at first, if you feed 4-5 times daily you're looking at 16, maybe 20 drops of bbs. The sour cream container about half full of brine solution with the rest of the bbs goes in the fridge, they will keep for 48 hours no problem this way. This makes morning & later in the day feedings real easy, a few drops in the filter cup, a quick rinse & feed, especially mornings since I'm in no way a morning person.

With hatching bbs cleanliness is as important as with the fry tank, this is the reason for chlorinated tap, a couple drops of bleach, a room temperature tap water rinse, and daily rinsing & refilling. Folks try to take short cuts, reuse brine solution, squirt them brine solution & all into fry tanks, it's a problem waiting to happen, as warm salt water with no bio filtration is a nasty bacteria factory.

Here's a couple links off my worm site, first has saved me countless hours of typing over many years, second is from some time back after I took one of my usual breaks from breeding;

I know I've got bbs hatching pics, I helped someone out some time back, let me do a bit of digging for those. Any more questions feel free to ask, I'm a terrible angel breeding enabler!
 

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Tolak said:
Pile some of the mature bio max on top of the brand new sponge filter. It will have enough current going through the mature media to provide bio filtration, and will help seed the sponge filter. Back in the day when undergravel filtration was the newest & best plenty of folks did this with gravel when they had to set up a tank in a hurry without a mature sponge filter.

I run just air in hatching tanks until the wigglers are swimmers, then run a sponge filter. Be aware that a sponge filter run at that low of a flow provides very little mechanical filtration, water changes every day are the mechanical part, as well as wiping & siphoning the bottom of the bare tank.

Hatching bbs is pretty easy once you get a routine down. You'll hatch all the bbs you'll ever need at this point with a cut down clear 2 liter bottle. I feed hundreds of fry with a single 2 liter setup, though my hatcher is set up to hold a maximum of a pair of gallon jars. I've rarely had to use a single gallon jar, once you get past around 1/2, maybe 3/4 of a teaspoon of bbs the hatch rate seems to go down, I guess like anything else the little shrimp suffer from overstocking. For a single spawn 1/8 tsp is more than enough for feeding them for a 24 hour period. A little practice hatching bbs before the angels are swimmers won't hurt, many adult species such as corys, loachs & so on will be more than happy to chow down on any extra once it hits the bottom of the tank.

I guess my cut down hatchery holds about 1.5 liters of water, maybe a bit less. I start with straight cold tap, no dechlor, 1.5 tablespoons of salt, half a teaspoon of baking soda to increase water hardness, and two drops of plain chlorine bleach. At 80F I get a hatch every 24 hours, I built a cabinet with a 40w bulb on a dimmer, hold temperature pretty accurately.

Come evening, I pull out the air line, pull out the bottle, park it on a counter with a clamp light shining on the bottom, and go do something else for about 10 minutes. The bbs will settle to the bottom, where the light is shining in that amount of time. I then take my turkey baster, and suck out all the nice orange bbs, squirt them into an old sour cream container that has a hole cut in the lid. That gets set to the side, the plastic bottle setup goes to the sink, gets dumped, refilled with fresh cold tap, & set up for the next evening's bbs harvest. Here's a harvesting trick; the surface will be covered with shells, really not harmful to fry, but makes a mess of the fry tank. Before going at it with the baster rub your nose, touch the surface of the hatcher, the oil in your skin reduces surface tension, the shells all go to the side, giant baster hole just waiting.

By the time the new batch is set up the bbs in the smaller container have settled to the bottom. I ave a large plastic cup with a paper coffee filter rubber banded to it, pull out some shrimp with an eyedropper, squirt it in the filter. I have a used 1 liter water bottle with tap water, a quick rinse for the bbs in the filter, they're ready to feed. For a singe spawn of 200-300 newly swimming fry you'll need 3, maybe 4 drops of bbs in the filter, this will increase as the fry grow. This is why you start with 1/8 tsp at first, if you feed 4-5 times daily you're looking at 16, maybe 20 drops of bbs. The sour cream container about half full of brine solution with the rest of the bbs goes in the fridge, they will keep for 48 hours no problem this way. This makes morning & later in the day feedings real easy, a few drops in the filter cup, a quick rinse & feed, especially mornings since I'm in no way a morning person.

With hatching bbs cleanliness is as important as with the fry tank, this is the reason for chlorinated tap, a couple drops of bleach, a room temperature tap water rinse, and daily rinsing & refilling. Folks try to take short cuts, reuse brine solution, squirt them brine solution & all into fry tanks, it's a problem waiting to happen, as warm salt water with no bio filtration is a nasty bacteria factory.

Here's a couple links off my worm site, first has saved me countless hours of typing over many years, second is from some time back after I took one of my usual breaks from breeding;

I know I've got bbs hatching pics, I helped someone out some time back, let me do a bit of digging for those. Any more questions feel free to ask, I'm a terrible angel breeding enabler!
I think we can change that to a lifesaver for advice on angelfish. Thanks Tolak. Alison
 
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Tolak I've only just seen this and can't thank you enough for typing all this out... Completely invaluable information and no teacher better than experience ! Thank you so much


 
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bizaliz3 Tolak

I'm slightly confused with a couple of small aspects here. I plan on buying a small 1-2 gallon jar to put the slate in (a vase) and running an air stone in this to make dosing methylene blue easier and cheaper.

At what stage would I take the slate out of this jar and put it into a hatching tank? When I see wriggles or when free swimming? If free swimming, how do I transfer them?

At what stage so I put a sponge filter in the tank? The meth blue will obviously kill any beneficial bacteria and it'll also need waste to feed on.

Thanks
Mark


 

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How are the eggs coming along? Any news yet? Alison
 
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aliray said:
How are the eggs coming along? Any news yet? Alison
Ah I forgot to update this thread did a different one! Unfortunately I woke up one morning and all the eggs were on the bed of my tank and white. Either unfertilised or a fungus issue, not sure which. I've got some methylene for my next batch and BSS so just waiting now !


 
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