AmQuel Plus

I received my AmQuel + ( and other fish drugs) in record time. Ordered from fosters & Smith late Sunday, had email Mon they had been shipped and another early Wed morning saying they had been delivered. Wow!

Neptune is currently on TriSulfa meds, with the last dose being tomorrow, (5 days) so I am going to finish that round.

I went to Kordon website (mfg) to read about the product. Following is something of doseage:

"As described in ABOUT KORDON'S WATER CONDITIONERS under "Which Water Conditioner Should be Used for What..." not all the conditioning needed for water is done by Amquel+ or any one other single water conditioner. When new water is added, usually Amquel+ should be used with Kordon's NovAqua+, as explained in ABOUT KORDON'S WATER CONDITIONERS under "Which Water Conditioner Should Be Used for What". It is recommended that both be used to fully condition new water, such as out of the tap from public water suppliers.

This sounds to me like you need to use both a regular water conditioner and the Amquel??

My questions are:

I have already added todays dose of Trisulfa ( no water change - ammoniam between 0-,25 ppm)). Should I add Amquel now also?

Or should I wait until I am finished medicating , andon Friday morning do a treated water change ( how much) , replace carbon filter, and then add Amquel?

Do I add it daily, or just the once?

Thanks, Val

PS : Neptune is holding his own, still some redness, no shredding however now that I said that, it will happen later today -- LOL

 

Amquel+ is a stand-alone water conditioner that takes out all the usual suspects including ammo, nitrites, and nitrates.  Kordon's doesn't mind you using it together with Novaqua as it brings them more profit.  But Amquel+ is sufficient by itself.

Use 1/8 of a teaspoon (or 15 drops) of the stuff per gallon.

I don't like tossing in too much of any conditioer(s).  I've been taught to treat conditioners like meds and not overdose the tank.  You should be able to add enough to treat the whole tank w/o problems, though.

Mike

 

Should I add Amquel now also?

Or should I wait until I am finished medicating , andon Friday morning do a treated water change ( how much) , replace carbon filter, and then add Amquel?

Do I add it daily, or just the once?

Sorry I make things more conplicated than they are, but could I get help specifically for these questions so I know how to proceed?? ???

Thanks. Val

 

You can add the Amquel+ anytime. Adding it now would be fine. The dose is 1/8 teaspoon or 15 drops per gallon. It doesn't last forever, but will get you through any treatments where no water changes are implied in a med's directions.

Before cycling the tank, you will need to remove the Amquel+ as it suppresses what is needed for the cycle. That's not hard to do. I would think that several 1/3 water changes over a couple of weeks would do it, unless Neptune has other accommodations while you do a 100% water change in his home tank.

Mike

 

I added the Amquel to Neptune's tank. So when his medicating is finished ( tomorrow is last ) should I just replace carbon filter and see how it goes without doing any water changes - to monitor his fin rot?

Then I am thinking if his fin rot seems under control, I can do those water changes you suggested over a couple weeks and then concentrate on cycling the tank.

And from now on, do I use Amquel to to treat his water instead of Stress Coat? (ie) Can I pretreat my town water with Amquel as I currently do with Stress Coat.

Each answer brings a new question LOL. Sorry. :-[ Val

 

Follow the water change procedure as stated on the med's directions.  Use Amquel+-treated water for the change.  You can use Stress Coat if you want, but I'd use it at a minimum dose.  When you are done with the water changes (the meds may call for two 50% water changes in 12 hours, some meds do, idk about the meds you used), you should have added enough Amquel+ to treat the whole tank (1/8 teaspoon per gallon).

Regarding water changes, always treat tap water with water conditioner BEFORE the water goes into the tank with the fish.

When doing water changes I prepare the replacement water beforehand (at least 24 hours, if not more).  I add the conditioner I'm using and store the container w/o a top to allow any harmful gases to escape.

When it's time to do the water change, I extract all I'm going to take out of the tank first.  Then, I warm the replacement water container(s) in our kitchen sink using the hottest water the heater can make.  I take the water out when the temp has reached 90 degrees and give it a really good shake to disperse the heat throughout the container.  (While heating it, it won't warm evenly; the cooler water will remain low and the warm water will rise.)  That gives me a gallon of water at about 85 degrees.  GB's tank is around 84 degrees, so I have some time to pour the water in before it cools too much.

Idk how long Amquel+ will suppress the ammonia levels in the tank.  My experience is that, using it at minimum strength, I've easily been able to get 5 days in before I've changed the water.  I don't know if I could have held out for a longer time period, I did the water change to clean up solid waste.

Over the next week to two, you'll get a fairly good idea if the fin rot has abated.  I'd still do a water change every four days or so, using Amquel+ as the water conditioer, just to freshen things up and clear any solid waste.  (So get out your siphon vac.)

When you do the water changes, 25% to 30% should be about the limit.  More than that, IMO, is more stressful for the fish.

Mike

 

My AmQuel+ doesn't have any odor to it, and the label says it's supposed to? ??? I can't find any expiration date on the bottle, is it good? Can I still use Stress Coat along with it? I got the Novaqua + stuff too, and that's supposed to enhance the slime coating, too, but I don't really trust it as well as the Stress Coat.

Val, what I did was after medicating, I did a 95% water change, taking the water down as far as I possibly could with Spartacus still in it, and then added a new filter. I treated with the Stress Coat and then added the Bio Spira. (AmQuel+ supposedly kills the Bio Spira, but, wouldn't that mean you could never use it in a cycled tank then? ??? ??? ) My tank is now cycling but his fin rot isn't progressing. I feel it's safe to bet that once his tank gets cycled, and only then, will he be able to fully recover from it. After the tank is cycled I'm just going to monitor him and take frequent water readings. Would I be able to use the AmQuel plus to minimize frequent water changes? Or, will it hurt the biological filter?

Anyway, those are my plans. I'm 100% confident though that he, along with Neptune, may never recover fully unless the tank is cycled, so now that's my main priority.

 

I am pretty sure I read on their web site that there is no expiration date for Amquel+ - it is a newer product than AmQuel and eventually will replace it.

I can't get Bio Spira because of the delivery thing - there has to be someone to accept it, and while I have both a Post Office box and a relatives house in Minnesota, I can't count on someone always being there with work, etc. So like it or not, I am going to have to get that tank cycling on its own.

Until I know for sure what is happening with the fin rot, I will just keep the water clean, perhaps do a 25% change on Friday morning - as per instructions on med pkg -, with a new filter and replace the AmQuel I would lose with this. I will also use siphon vac, as per Mike's suggestion. If I can see some improvement, I will leave him a little longer and hope to get some action on the cycling. Label says AmQuel doesn't affect biological filter - but I don't know if that means established or developing.

Long term planning seems weird to me, since Neptune & I have been on the medication merry go round, I can hardly wait until I can just enjoy my fish!

Tonight Neptune seems perky and happy with the changes made to his tank and is whipping up and down, back and forth, in and out of the leaves - there really is a lot of room in the 6gal Eclipse! I think I could compare it to me getting new shoes - LOL .

Val

 

What you might want to do, and I believe Mike suggested this to me about a zillion times before I got the Bio Spira, is try moving him to a different tank or container, treat him in that one, and keep him in there until his 6 gallon finally cycles. That way you won't be interfering with the cycle by constant water changes and medication in that tank, but you can assure he's in an ammonia/nitrite/nitrate free environment by being in the other container for now.

You don't have any stores that carry the Bio Spira? I went to Marineland's website and entered my zip code to "find a marineland dealer" and found several stores that carry it. Instead of paying $40 from F&S, I only paid $12.80 at Petland. (Althought I HATE Petland with a passion! I never would have even considered stepping foot inside their puppymill store if I hadn't have needed the Bio Spira so badly.)

 

If BioSpira didn't need to ship Overnight Fedex I would get it. in the US>

However, where I live, in Canada, FedEx interlines with a smaller carrier and it could be several days for delivery. I have checked online, found a place in BC but it was like $40 overnight ( which isn't overnight ) delivery. I would pay it if it would be overnight, but there is no such thing in a small town like this. My husband looked in 2 huge petland kind of stores in the city, and they had never heard of it. UPS also interlines with another carrier, so I am screwed.

Too bad, since as I said yesterday when I wrote Neptune was holding his own, but it would change since I was writing that down -- this morning, the red growth is shredded again. What a weird condition.

I will just use the AmQuel+ and not have to do water changes, and monitor closesly.

Maybe Neptune is upset cuz I posted a pic of him with his anemone and he finally realized he IS having a bad hair day - and " how dare you publish a photo of me in the less than perfect state??' LOL

 

Idk about the expiration of any conditioner.  If you find the stuff has been around the house for a couple of years, maybe it's time to replace it.  But purchased from the store, it should be okay.

Too bad Neptune's tail shredded again, but it's good he's active.  If you don't already have it (too many threads to search through to find out), you might get some Maracyn and Maracyn 2.  In a tank where a full treatment of either the M2 or a combo of M/M2 could be used w/o the need for water changes might bring some good results.

As for cycling the tank, the suggestion in Eskielvr's post above would allow you to cycle the 6-gallon while keeping Neptune safe from the ammo needed for the cycle.  For the cost of the Bio-S delivered to your home, you could get a fair bit of h-tank equipment, if not all of it.  All you need is a 3-gallon <a href=" Keeper</a> (or something similar), <a href=" 25W heater</a>, and a <a href=" filter</a>.

As for cycling the 6-gallon, there are a number of degradables that can cycle the tank.  Some have used fish food, others have used fish bits.  These "products" will take some time to break down, time to induce the growth of bacteria to eat it, and more time to generate the nitrites needed for the second phase of cycle establishment.  IIRC, pure ammonia (not the sudsy stuff, just plain pure ammonia) will get the job done quicker.  I don't know the measures (hopefully someone can help with this), but, IIRC, it's something like a teaspoon a day into the tank until the nitrate numbers started coming up.  After that, you may only need enough to keep the cycle going.

Mike

 

Ya know since I have spent so much $$$$ on drugs lately, I think I will wait this out for awhile. I did the last of 5day dose of TriSulfa today, and I may just do another 5 days. I it says you can only repeat it once.

Since I spent the $$ on AmQel, I may as well give it a shot. I only put it in yesterday.

Actually I think I now have every product Mardel makes -- LOL - if you read the labels and the stuff in the catalogues, many of these do all the same stuff, and it sounds like TriSulfa and Maracyn Plus are the big guns. He is acting his goofy self.

I am just stunned that the tank hasn't cycled??!! Oh well we have come this far.............

Hey Mike, should I still do tank testing for Ammonia when I use Amquel??? And just to confirm, I can use it as the only tank conditioner? ( I do mine ahead, same as you).

And it says it won't interfere with the biological filter, but does it interfere with cycling??Thanks, Val

 

HI Whitney - thanks for your encouragement! When I first got Neptune I had no idea any of this even could happen!! The idea of putting stuff into the tank was just weird, although I am getting better -- I still have Neptune, so I haven't done anything to kill him - LOL. He always gives me the eye when the top comes off the tank like " Is this for food? No? Well do you know what your're doing, go ask someone before you guinea pig me, Mom". LOL


I was so confused ( even tho I read up ) that I had the tank running for 10 days before I got the fish, then I did this huge water change before I put him in....dahh! :-[

So I will leave him and probably do another 5 days of TrisSulfa then try to cycle and stop medication altogether. Now would you know if I have to re dose the Amquel, or will this get me through another week??

Thanks again. Val

 

You should be fine for the week, but if you're nervous about it you can always just check the ammonia levels. As long as everything's at 0 you're fine.

 

So, after a tank is established and cycled, is it still safe to use the AmQuel + then?? I'd assume it wouldn't be if it interferes with the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate then?

 

Well the package specifically says it is safe, but I personally would switch to a different product that doesn't remove the ammonia/nitrites/nitrates.

 

I believe Amquel+ removes ammonia, correct? In that case, yes using it is technically safe... BUT--because it removes the ammonia, the biological filter is starved of its food and dies off. So, if you ever run out of Amquel+ and have to use dechlor that doesn't remove ammonia, your fish will get ammonia poisoning since the biological filter is no longer working. In other words, your tank becomes dependent on it and you have to keep using it forever unless you want to re-cycle the tank. IMO, not worth the risk...might as well just let the filter do its job.

 

I thought it just made it into the nontoxic form, but could still be used by the biofilter. you can't just have stuff magically removed. changed, yes, but just completely gone, no.

I think I may have misunderstood something?

 

HI Griffin...I believe you are correct regarding what AmQuel + does to Amm etc. Here are a couple of paragraphs copied from the website of Kordon, mfg of AmQuel +.

**********************************
2. A primary purpose in aquariums and ponds is to protect aquarium and pond fishes and invertebrates by quickly eliminating (actually detoxifying) the harmful components of the biological nitrogen cycle - ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates without slowing the nitrogen cycle (see KPD-64 "Biological Filtration"), or interfering with the beneficial bacteria involved, or depriving these bacteria of their food.

Among AmQuel+ benefits are that it is easy to use and equally effective in fresh and salt water, and it does not affect the beneficial bacteria of the biological nitrogen cycle. AmQuel+ is compatible with all water conditioners and all Kordon medications and other medications on which it has been tested, and with all aquatic life - including live rock and reef tank inhabitants. Other benefits are that AmQuel+ does not affect pH (acidity and alkalinity), and does not discolor the water. AmQuel+ has a long indefinite shelf life expected to be many years.
*********************************

So I have used it for a week, while medicating with TriSulfa. I have done no water changes. Tomorrow is the last med dose, then I am going to do 25% water change, with water treated with StressCoat, put in a new carbon filter and then also add AmQuel for one more week, so that I don't have to keep disturbing Neptune.

If he is healing better,I will do another change the week after that and try to let the tank cycle. My tank has been running for two months, and is not cycled, but I have been medicating for 7 weeks at least, with water/filter changes. Poor fish....poor budget -- LOL :-\

We'll see how it goes. The website for product is interesting. ( Kordon.com) I don't want to use this product forever, but right now the fish needs a rest I am thinking.

( Well look at me, making my own decisions!!! LOL - Never would have done it without the help of all the good people on this site). Val

 

Good job, val. 

I have been advised in the past to clear any tank being cycled of Amquel+.  Kordon's claim that A+ doesn't interfere with the good bacteria seems limited to tanks already established.  Even then, there have been a few posts here wrt meds that have trashed a cycle when they claimed they wouldn't.

As for how long A+ is effective, I've limited my use to 5 to 7 days.  Maybe the stuff lasts forever, idk.  But, I won't push it past a week.

Mike

 

what do you mean by effective only for 5-7 days? is that effectiveness in bottle or out?

 

I'm talking about when it's in use, after the product has been exposed to water (or rather ammonia, nitrites, and/or nitrates).  From posts I've read elsewhere, along with other articles, terms like "bind" and "sequester" are used when referring to what A+ does to ammonia.  And, from what I've read elsewhere, the bond doesn't last forever.  How long?  I don't know, maybe it does last forever.  But, when I'm using the product, I usually stick to a 5 to 7 day period.  What remains in the bottle is fine.  If it's still around two years from now, I'd be inclined to replace it, though.

Keep in mind, I'm only using it when necessary, like when I need to do a five-day treatment in an uncycled tank and the directions (like Maracyn 2) deter me from doing a water change for the treatment period.  Using A+ keeps the ammonia down while allowing me to skip the water change. 

And, I'm not talking about using the product in a cycled tank when meds are needed.  In that case, stick to the meds only.  But, if the meds do interfere with the cycle, as has happened, then A+ could come in handy to knock down any mounting ammonia levels.  Someone here just addressed that issue in another thread, I believe.

For me, A+ is merely a simple tool to be used when ammonia levels need to be knocked back, but when water changes are not desired or allowed due to med directions, or because they may induce stress at a time when stress is to be reduced.

Mike

 

I don't know if this site copied/pasted. This is an interesting site/product.

Bottom line, I realize it is still a product and they want to sell it. However, I have read a lot of their web site, and I think while Neptune battles fin rot and tank hasn't cycled, I will turn to this product. Now unless I have read it wrong six times, the nitrogen cycle should still take place, could take a while. Well, it is doing that anyway, so I may as well protect Neptune from Ammonia/Nitrite poisoning. Oh ya, and the bottle I got treats 900 gallons...LOL

And Yay!! I got a "good work, Val ". Yay!!

 

I copied/pasted this bit also - of interest to us who are medicating/cycling. Griffin, I am sure he means in the tank. There is no expiration for the bottle if stored in cool, dark, place. Val




The Effects of Medications on Water Conditioners and Vice Versa
When water conditioners are used at the same time as medications and something goes wrong, it is often the question of whether the water conditioners or the medications are at fault. Except for AmQuel and Amquel+ in use with medicinal chemical dyes (such as malachite green, methylene blue, potassium permanganate, and acriflavine), Kordon's water conditioners are completely compatible with all of Kordon medications and with all others for which Kordon has test results. In the case of AmQuel and AmQuel+ they reduce or remove the chemical dyes but are not in any way toxic. Other than as indicated for AmQuel and AmQuel+, Kordon's water conditioners do not interfere with the medications' actions, and vice versa.

In particular keep in mind with the use of medications that when the aquarist and pond keeper uses his own diagnosis to treat fishes, he is acting as the "veterinarian" and is using medications that would normally be diagnosed, prescribed and administered by a veterinarian. The question is ­ how knowledgeable is that person in making his own diagnosis?

Many medications used in aquariums and ornamental ponds are stressful and may kill fishes that are already far advanced in being infected and near death. Especially unsafe from some suppliers are the treatments that are multiple medications, each component being stressful in itself. This "shot-gun" approach is for those who do not know what disease(s) the fishes have, and perhaps one of the components in the medication will work. For fishes that are extremely ill, this can be toxic, rather than helpful. In such cases a milder medication is needed. A majority of aquarists and pond keepers do not notice serious infections in fishes until they are far advanced, and do not realize just how sick those fishes are. It is not just their fault, because it can be difficult to see fish diseases, sometimes not until it is too late. Often they make the wrong diagnosis and do not use the right medication. For further information on medications see Product Data Sheets under the Kordon Medications category.

All of this really makes me more comfortable with treating Neptune. At least I know I don't have to stress him by doing water changes every day when he has this fin rot - which I think I am seeing some improvement in. I still check the water Ammon every 2nd day.......but this is much less disruptive.

Val

 

All of this really makes me more comfortable with treating Neptune. At least I know I don't have to stress him by doing water changes every day when he has this fin rot - which I think I am seeing some improvement in. I still check the water Ammon every 2nd day.......but this is much less disruptive.
Val

Good. I think sometimes we get so caught up doing what's right/wrong & how this might do that & etc, etc. that we forget part of getting our Bettas healthy is for us and our Bettas to enjoy time together and relax.. I know we do sometimes trying to do just what's right. I can see you do your best for your Neptune and he'll fight hard and get better.

 

hehe, I just wanted to make sure I was reading it right. wouldn't quite make sense if the stuff went bad in 5-7 days in bottle

 

The only words of wisdom I can offer are that neither Amquel or Amquel+ should be used in a tank while it is cycling as it does seriously disturb the cycle process, but so does medicating so I guess that for ONLY the period of time while you are medicating it would be okay but be prepared to have a cycle that takes a L O N G time.

Rose

 

But, is it ok to use in a tank that has cycled already? My 20 gallon has no ammonia or nitrite and just a low nitrate reading. If I add AmQuel+ to that tank after a water change, it won't hurt the bacteria?

 

Eskielvr: I printed off all the info on both Amquel + and ZymBac when I found the Zymbac. In front of me now, Amquel literature says "AmQuel + is harmless to plants, fishes, invertibrates and other aquatic life froms. This product is safe for use in aquariums and ponds and will not interfere with biological filtration or its bacteria. When Amquel+ detoxifies ammonia, nittrite, nitrate and other organic compounds, it breaks the links of molecules apart. The bacteria do not know the difference and eat the parts, just as they would the whole original compounds......Amquel+ detoxifies /removes all of the toxic nitrogen compounds that can appear in aquarium and pond water over time, thereby making water changes less necessary and providing a safer environment for fishes and aquatic life.....Amquel+ does not interfere with the beneficial sludge removing bacteria or their food sources."


It sounds like it is fine, and also says there is a claim on an internet website that the product does not work, and that the of tests done by independent scientific laboratories, the obnly test that indicated Amquel+ was inactive was"... under complete anaerobic conditions in the water and that since these conditions are not going to exist in aqaurium and pond conditions, it is not a factor as to the effectiveness of the product. .." If you go on the website and read FAQ and all the other info, as well as testimonials by huge well known commercial aquariums that use the product, it appears to be a good product.

The same information also is shown for ZymBac, the product I am waiting for that is like BioSpira. If you compare the info/claims/testimonials regarding Bio Spira and Zymbac, products, they are the same, except ZymBac takes longer and costs less - a lot less.

As an aside, Kordon screwed up my order, and so are sending it second day air UPS to a Minnesota UPS office so I can go pick it up on Wed. I am anxious to try it.

Neptune just finished a course of Maracyn Plus, so today I did a 30% conditioned water change, new carbon filter, cleaned the tank/gravel & plants, added AmQuel which I have been using for a couple weeks, and we will monitor his fin rot. He looks great, there is new growth despite last weeks set back. Not having to do the water changes has been so much better for him. I only added 1/2 tsp of AmQuel+ two times ( every 5 days with the partial water change. ) So we will see how it goes with just the clean water.

I haven't decided yet if I will move Neptune to another tank when I add the Zymbac. It says there is no need, but I will decide later. I was actually in Duluth and tried to get Bio Spira at Petland or Petco or whatever it was and they had never heard of it, and tried to get me to buy Cycle ( I didn't).

Neptune will be the guinea pig for ZymBac...I guess there comes a time when having read and read and researched a product, you have to make a decision. Since I cannot get Bio Spira, we will use Zymbac and I will post progress reports ( I am trying to be confident that there will be progress).I will also continue to use Amquel+ in the tank also.

Sorry this post is so long..........so many products, so much hype & marketing.........how to know??? Again, don't call this as advice, cuz I am just experimenting, :-\ but it good to share these experiences and their results.

I am happy to hear that your fish is doing well........ Continued good luck!! Val

 

The only reason NOT to use Amquel or Amquel+ during the cycle period is that it does work to keep the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates down and those things need to be worked on by the bacteria that NEED to grow for the bacteria that are needed in the new filter during the cycle process. The cycle process does not allow them to grow to a dangerous level but they do need to be present and if you use this product, it will keep your cycle from happening or lengthen it to a ridiculous length of time. If you can use StressCoat or NovAqua+ for that short time that your tank is cycling then it would be perfectly proper to switch to Amquel or Amquel+ as they are good products.

I personally use the NovAqua+ simply because it contains vitamins and echinacea that I feel helps my fish and their immune systems, but the choice is entirely up to you.

Rose

 

I finally talked my LFS into getting some amquel+ yeeaaaaaa!

I have a question. Do I still have to treat the clean water going in for chlorine?



One more question. I've been using something else so how do I change to amquel???

 

The AmQuel+ treats chlorine/chloramines

 

cool just one step not two. Do I put it in the tank after the new water is in or treat the water in the bucket?

 

It's recommended to treat the water before adding it into the tank, although in my larger tanks I find it more convenient to add it as I'm filling it up because I'm going straight from the showerhead. When I don't have ammonia problems, I strictly use NovAqua+ but after adding fish or whenever else ammonia tests positive, I use AmQuel+ and NovAqua+ together because the NovAqua+ also helps to add a protective slime coat which the AmQuel+ doesn't. Hope this helps ;D

 

Good afternoon,

I use Amquel + and Nova Aqua + too. Have for many years (before they added the + ). Be sure to read the directions and labels. I'm sure it states everything that the conditioners are meant to be used for.

Ken

 

Ok I have another question.
It takes a couple of buckets of water for my water change should I add the Amquel+ to the first bucket or how should I do it?

Thanks so much for all the help so far.

 

You must measure the doses accordingly.

 

huh? I know how much to add for my tank.
I put in enough to treat the whole tank right?
Can I just put that amount in the first bucket of clean water going back in?
Or just wait and put it in when I get the all water back in?

 

I add enough conditioner to the bucket to treat the amount of water in the bucket.
If I use two buckets of water I treat each bucket separately.

Some members use a python for water changes. In those instances, they add the water then put add enough conditioner to treat the entire tank.

Hope that made sense

 

Thanks Lucy.

Sorry to be a pain about this, I just waned to do it right.

 

Hey, no problem! You're not being a pain at all