Ammonia no longer converting to Nitrites in Cycle

Hi Everyone,

I've been doing fishless cycling for a bit over a month now, and for some reason at this point I don't see my ammonia levels dropping and converting to nitrite anymore. It did that earlier in the cycle and I noticed that there was cloudy water for a week or so, but that went away. My current levels are:
- Ammonia: 2 ppm
- Nitrite: 0 ppm:
- Nitrate: 20 ppm
- pH: 6.6
I've noticed that my water's ph keeps dropping down to around 6.6, and I've had to do 25% water changes multiple times so far. Should I do a water change again, and is my cycle stalled for some reason? If so, is there a way to jumpstart it again? In the first week of cycling I added Seachem Stability everyday, and I have been dosing with Seachem Prime every other day since. I only have fake plants and rocks in the aquarium, and I have sand at the bottom. I set the temperature to around 80 deg F or so with the heater.

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks

 

Hi Everyone,

I've been doing fishless cycling for a bit over a month now, and for some reason at this point I don't see my ammonia levels dropping and converting to nitrite anymore. It did that earlier in the cycle and I noticed that there was cloudy water for a week or so, but that went away. My current levels are:
- Ammonia: 2 ppm
- Nitrite: 0 ppm:
- Nitrate: 20 ppm
- pH: 6.6
I've noticed that my water's ph keeps dropping down to around 6.6, and I've had to do 25% water changes multiple times so far. Should I do a water change again, and is my cycle stalled for some reason? If so, is there a way to jumpstart it again? In the first week of cycling I added Seachem Stability everyday, and I have been dosing with Seachem Prime every other day since. I only have fake plants and rocks in the aquarium, and I have sand at the bottom. I set the temperature to around 80 deg F or so with the heater.

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks

I want to clarify a few things.

1. You definitely saw nitrite before? Or was it more the disappearance of ammonia?
2. How are you adding ammonia, and how often?
3. What's the readings for your water source?
4. What is your target pH for your eventual stocking?

 

I definitely saw Nitrite before, I think like a week ago it was around 2 ppm and then it decreased. I'm adding ammonia with Dr. Tim's Aquatic Ammonium Chloride, and I was redosing to around 1-2 ppm when I saw that it was getting low or after I did a water change. For my water source, I am using tap water that has around 0.25 ppm Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 0 Nitrate, 7 pH. My target pH for my eventual stocking I think would be around 7 pH

 

Welcome to fishlore dew1234.
That’s good news dew1234,
As you now have the bacteria that eat ammonia and the second kind that eat nitrites and poop out nitrates you may never see nitrites ever again. Unless you have a major problem sometime in the distant future you will not see nitrites on a test.

You can not have nitrates on a test without the bacteria having nitrites to eat. They are now eating it faster than you can test for it . That is all. Nothing to worry about.

As the ammonia is still taking longer than 24 hours to be completely consumed you still need to wait a while while the bacteria numbers grow stronger that’s all.

Continue to add ammonia. You might be getting close to having a full working nitrogen cycle soon ?

 

Ah ok, that's good to hear thanks! So far it seems like the ammonia hasn't really decreased much after a couple days, so should I just wait until it gets to a lower ppm level and then redose on ammonia? My tap water has a bit of ammonia so it won't go completely to 0, but should I add it more maybe when it reaches 0.25 ppm or so?

Should I also still do a 25% water change if I see that the ph drops below 7? It seems like it keeps going down to 6.6 after like a week even after I do a water change

 

Water changes are not really needed with a fishless cycle. But I can understand why you have been doing them to keep the PH high while cycling.
I think the time is fast approaching for you to let the tank stabilise and find out what the PH settles to after a week or two of no water changes.

Without wanting to confuse you. I would like to say something that might be just a little to much information?

A PH of 6.6 is going to be OK for many soft water fish species. A stable PH is always best.

The bacteria that we all use are not just 2 kinds. Yes there is two kinds. One that eat ammonia and one that eat nitrites. However it’s a large group or family of bacteria really. At certain PH levels different species of the bacteria ( family) survive better. Normally we don’t need to worry about this information. If your intended stocking is a soft water species just leave things alone and forget what I just wrote.

Only if you intend to stock African cichlids or goldfish do you have an issue. Also live bearers like guppies may be difficult in your water without adding minerals?

I suspect you have a low GH level?
It would be interesting to know the KH of your water source?

A video link that may help explain the different kinds of Bacteria that live in different levels of PH.
Sorry this really is likely to be to much information? But at least Jason can explain it a little better than I can?

 

It sounds like everything is pretty much covered, but I have a question. Why have you been dosing with Prime every other day?

 

Water changes are not really needed with a fishless cycle. But I can understand why you have been doing them to keep the PH high while cycling.
I think the time is fast approaching for you to let the tank stabilise and find out what the PH settles to after a week or two of no water changes.

Without wanting to confuse you. I would like to say something that might be just a little to much information?

A PH of 6.6 is going to be OK for many soft water fish species. A stable PH is always best.

The bacteria that we all use are not just 2 kinds. Yes there is two kinds. One that eat ammonia and one that eat nitrites. However it’s a large group or family of bacteria really. At certain PH levels different species of the bacteria ( family) survive better. Normally we don’t need to worry about this information. If your intended stocking is a soft water species just leave things alone and forget what I just wrote.

Only if you intend to stock African cichlids or goldfish do you have an issue. Also live bearers like guppies may be difficult in your water without adding minerals?

I suspect you have a low GH level?
It would be interesting to know the KH of your water source?

A video link that may help explain the different kinds of Bacteria that live in different levels of PH.
Sorry this really is likely to be to much information? But at least Jason can explain it a little better than I can?

I have a 20 gallon freshwater aquarium, and I was thinking of potentially stocking Otocinclus Catfish, Cherry Shrimp, Honey Gourami, and some Harlequin Resbora. From what I can tell a 6.6 pH is fine for them although it's a little low for the Otocinclus catfish. During the cycling process I was changing the water since I saw this article (Should I Do a Water Change During Fishless Cycling? (Does It Affect Cycle) ) that said for the beneficial bacteria to grow in my tank, the water should have a pH of at least 7 or above. Is this not the case at this stage of the cycle?

I'm also not entirely sure about the GH or KH level, as I just have the API Freshwater Master Test Kit currently. Also for the ammonia I assume I just redose when it's lower like 0.25 ppm, right?

It sounds like everything is pretty much covered, but I have a question. Why have you been dosing with Prime every other day?

Oh, I was following this article posted by Seachem (https://seachem.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...73-Guide-An-introduction-to-cycling-your-tank) that said to dose with Seachem Prime every other day to keep the ammonia and nitrite bound up into a nontoxic form. Should I be dosing it less?

 

Ok
#1
As Jason mentions in his video, at a PH of 7 to 8 ish the most common bacteria grow the fastest. Below 7 different kinds of bacteria grow slower but eventually do the same job. If that is to be your tanks PH once fish are added and the tank is stable then those are the bacteria you need to grow.

#2
You only need to know what your town water supply is . You don’t hopefully need to test your tank water all the time . Just knowing what your town water supply is would be a good place to start.
There are maps of the US claiming to give an indication of each states water . But that seems a bit rough?

#3
Adding extra Prime frequently while cycling is something that is only needed for people that have fish in the water. / A fish in cycle.

 

Oh, I was following this article posted by Seachem (https://seachem.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...73-Guide-An-introduction-to-cycling-your-tank) that said to dose with Seachem Prime every other day to keep the ammonia and nitrite bound up into a nontoxic form. Should I be dosing it less?

Flyfisha already answered, but since you're doing a fishless cycle you don't need to be dosing it all unless you're doing a water change and you need to neutralize the chlorine or chloramine. If you have well water from your own well you likely don't need to use it ever. I don't.

 

Oh, I was following this article posted by Seachem (https://seachem.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...73-Guide-An-introduction-to-cycling-your-tank) that said to dose with Seachem Prime every other day to keep the ammonia and nitrite bound up into a nontoxic form. Should I be dosing it less?

You are not the first and won't be the last being mislead by this article. Adding Prime only needs to be done if someone is doing a fish in cycle. Unfortunately there is no distinction made between fish in and fish-less cycling. When fish-less cycling there are no fishes lives at stake so no need to detox the ammonia.

I am going to recommend you get some crushed coral. Put about a cup of it in a media bag and put that bag in your filter. As it very slowly dissolves it will stabilize your pH close to the same as your tap water. Since your nitrites have spiked and are now zero you should never see them again. I do suspect once you stabilize the pH you are going to find that this cycle is very close to complete.

Edited to add: I just contacted Seachem about this. hopefully they will make some changes to the article that is misleading folks about the use of Prime while fish-less cycling.

 

Hi, so around a few days ago I saw the ammonia was getting low so I decided to redose with it with Dr. Tim's Aquatic Ammonium Chloride back to around 2 ppm. However, I saw that the water started turning cloudy again like it did before earlier in the cycle and I was wondering if it is normal for this to happen?

Current levels:
Ammonia: 1 ppm, Nitrite: 0 ppm, Nitrate: Around 15-20 ppm I think, pH: 6.6

It still seems like the ammonia is being converted to Nitrate pretty slowly, but it does still look like it's doing it fast enough to skip the Nitrite in the testing. It also looks like the pH has stabilized to 6.6, as I don't see it dropping anymore currently. Do I just keep following this cycle of monitoring the decrease of ammonia into nitrate and redosing when it gets low until all the ammonia can be cleared in 24 hours? Just want to make sure I'm still on the right track, thanks

 

View attachment 828888

Hi, so around a few days ago I saw the ammonia was getting low so I decided to redose with it with Dr. Tim's Aquatic Ammonium Chloride back to around 2 ppm. However, I saw that the water started turning cloudy again like it did before earlier in the cycle and I was wondering if it is normal for this to happen?

Current levels:
Ammonia: 1 ppm, Nitrite: 0 ppm, Nitrate: Around 15-20 ppm I think, pH: 6.6

It still seems like the ammonia is being converted to Nitrate pretty slowly, but it does still look like it's doing it fast enough to skip the Nitrite in the testing. It also looks like the pH has stabilized to 6.6, as I don't see it dropping anymore currently. Do I just keep following this cycle of monitoring the decrease of ammonia into nitrate and redosing when it gets low until all the ammonia can be cleared in 24 hours? Just want to make sure I'm still on the right track, thanks

The cloudiness in your water is likely a bacterial bloom. Completely normal during the cycling process.

Did you add the crushed coral that mattgirl suggested?

 

I would seriously consider discontinuing the ammonia dosing for several days and add a few fish once it's down to 0.

 

View attachment 828888

Hi, so around a few days ago I saw the ammonia was getting low so I decided to redose with it with Dr. Tim's Aquatic Ammonium Chloride back to around 2 ppm. However, I saw that the water started turning cloudy again like it did before earlier in the cycle and I was wondering if it is normal for this to happen?

Current levels:
Ammonia: 1 ppm, Nitrite: 0 ppm, Nitrate: Around 15-20 ppm I think, pH: 6.6

It still seems like the ammonia is being converted to Nitrate pretty slowly, but it does still look like it's doing it fast enough to skip the Nitrite in the testing. It also looks like the pH has stabilized to 6.6, as I don't see it dropping anymore currently. Do I just keep following this cycle of monitoring the decrease of ammonia into nitrate and redosing when it gets low until all the ammonia can be cleared in 24 hours? Just want to make sure I'm still on the right track, thanks

Sounds like you have very soft water. You pH is too low, 6.6 is right on the edge of stalling the cycle. Baking soda will raise the pH, I would add 1 tablespoon to each 15 gallons or so to get it up to at least 7. Use lots of circulation and aeration too and I bet you will get to 0 ammonia quicker. Give the baking soda a try and let us know how it goes.
I have never had to deal with this low of pH and soft water but I'm sure you can explore the best way to deal with it. Maybe crushed coral like mattgirl mentioned.
Here's a little something on pH and cycling. This is not the first I've heard of low pH slowing and/or stopping the cycle.
Cycling with fish (LOW pH Tank) Will it work? | Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Forum | 241358

 

I am thinking this tank has been cycled for a while now. What size is the tank? What kind/brand of filter are you running on it? Insufficient filtration is often at the bottom of a tank seeming to take forever to complete the cycle.

 

mattgirl . Very good point! Some of these filters out of the box are laughable. They come with carbon and a small bag of expensive rocks.
I suggest something like this especially if you must run a HOB.

 

Hi, thanks for all the replies.

I am currently cycling a 20 gallon freshwater tank, using the Aqueon Quietflow 20 (Amazon.com) as the filter for it. I've mainly been following FlyFisha's advice of just letting the tank stabilize and seeing what the pH settles at after a week or two of no water changes, as he said that a pH of 6.6 is fine for many soft water fish. I'll try some baking soda to raise the pH though and see how that goes. How long would crushed coral last for if I use that for the pH, is that something I would need to add regularly even after the cycling ends?