Ammonia In Tank After Massive Water Changes

I wonder if the problem is keeping a culture of snails with the predators. You'll have to feed the the tank enough to keep the snails going. Catch 22.

A plant growing out of the snail tub could dramatically control the ammonia and nitrAte. Plus floating plants. I use soil bottoms (let it cycle) whenever I was ever trying to keep snails. The soil holds a ton of bacteria for me and keeps my softwater buffered. I don't even necessarily use a filter, but some water movement would be best. You could even plant it with low light easy plants and use sunlight. Essentially a little ecosystem if you get the right balance.

That is what it is...I little almost self sustaining ecosystem. Mine doesn't have a light but it is sitting right inside a north facing window so gets a lot of natural light.

I forgot to mention that I also have crushed coral, a piece of cuttlebone and seashells in my snail jar. I have no substrate in it. For me it is easier to clean up the piles of snail poop with no substrate. I have fairly soft water and know the snails need calcium to grow strong shells. I usually don't keep an eye on the perimeters other than the PH of the snail jar. The few times I have checked I have never had an ammonia reading. I am thinking the Pothos roots must be keeping it in check. I do a 75% water change every other week or so.

are you talking about why I had issues with a snail tank before? if so, I think the issue was that there was no fish in it so the snail died. so I may get a few guppies or something for the tank if I do this to keep something else other than snails in it. I didn't have real plants in it last time either so i'd likely add a plant to it as well.

Your snail tank shouldn't need any kind of fish in there with them. Hopefully knowing now how I do mine and how angelcraze does hers you will be successful should you decide to try again.

 

are you talking about why I had issues with a snail tank before? if so, I think the issue was that there was no fish in it so the snail died. so I may get a few guppies or something for the tank if I do this to keep something else other than snails in it. I didn't have real plants in it last time either so i'd likely add a plant to it as well.

I was explaining how I kept my snails. I would like to elaborate a bit on the soil part. Soil releases ammonia, so the small tank cycles itself. The soil is able to hold a ton of nitrifying (and other) bacteria so this is your filter, like in nature. The plant roots aerate the soil. I've done it multiple ways, sometimes I plant the tub, othertimes, if I'm not planting, I don't use very much soil, just a light layer to act as my bio sponge. I'll have plants like pothos, other houseplants, anubias, umbrella plant growing out of the tub as well as floating plants or water column feeding plants like anubias or moss balls. If you use the soil for planting, it would be best an 1" thick layer, but if you are not (a lot easier) you won't need very much. I cap (keep the moistened soil held down) with pool filter sand or pea gravel. Sand works better I think or a combo.

 

Do you have any ceramic media? Not saying floss and sponge doesn't hold BB, but it is my understanding it will colonize better on ceramic media designed for biological filtering.

This is how I personally set up my HOBs. Small layer of floss on the bottom, the rest is ceramic biological media in a media bag. I use a sponge prefilter. I just swish the media bag of bio in old tank water at WC time. I rinse the floss or replace. Rinse the sponge prefilter. I rinse the prefilter more often if needed in old tank water.


Actually I thought you were keeping pond snails in the main tanks to feed the puffer (later loaches). So are you keeping a culture of food in the same tank as the fish your feeding them to?
That to me would be pretty demanding of the bio.

I have ceramic media in there as well as bio balls and the polyfil but the polyfil is nor for holding bacteria.


as for the second comment, I wasn't really clear. I am not KEEPING them in there, they showed up and I was originally transferring them to the tank my puffer was in and now they are just overloading the tanks. I wasn't feeding them separately or trying to keep them necessarily. they were handy in eating up the missed food but that was all.

i'll try with the snails in another tank. I'll hopefully, now kinda knowing more about what i'm doing (I will admit, I started the snail tank previously when I first started my fish-keeping so I wasn't even up to par with fish keeping, kinda like now but i'm slightly more experienced)

 

I have ceramic media in there as well as bio balls and the polyfil but the polyfil is nor for holding bacteria.


as for the second comment, I wasn't really clear. I am not KEEPING them in there, they showed up and I was originally transferring them to the tank my puffer was in and now they are just overloading the tanks. I wasn't feeding them separately or trying to keep them necessarily. they were handy in eating up the missed food but that was all.

Ok, no problem. Glad to see you have ceramic as well So try reducing amount you are feeding (like you are) but particularly how much is lying on the bottom. I don't have bottom feeders in all of my tanks, so no reason to have food on the bottom in those. I feed my plecos (in tanks that I have them) at night the amount for them, so snails don't last long in any of my tanks. Except! The growout tank where I do purposely feed a lot. But I also have to change the water daily to keep up with the bioload. Just some info, I hope it helps and doesn't confuse!

i'll try with the snails in another tank. I'll hopefully, now kinda knowing more about what i'm doing (I will admit, I started the snail tank previously when I first started my fish-keeping so I wasn't even up to par with fish keeping, kinda like now but i'm slightly more experienced)

I like that idea You could start a culture in a separate tank or tub and tackle the remaining snails with 5 assassin snails or so, the lettuce trick and reduced feeding (available snail food on the substrate floor).

The only reason I mentioned the soil part to you (being newer in the hobby) is because I think it's the best least costly way to maintain a pond snail culture. I wouldn't suggest soil for a fish tank for someone starting out, but I've done it for snails and they've been great like that. They are pretty tough and like I said, a dirted container essentially cycles itself. It would have to cycle first though. The soil is the ammonia source. It will be pretty tea-stained by the time it cycles, but a large water change clears that up before you add the snails. You can add substrate from the main tanks to add BB. I just think it's a fairly safe way to learn this little ecosystem thing. Maybe I'm too into it lol.

 

just a quuuuick comment. i've been doing research to try to figure out what's been going on with my dwarf grouami and it seems like he may have swim bladder (?) disease? i, of course, will transfer him to another tank and will, but would this be a cause of anything that is going on? (he's laying on the top of the water at the top and sporadically decides to swim around once in a while)

also how do I treat this

 

First of all, before I forget again
What is your pH and temperature of each tank?
And ppm of ammonia pls.

You are correct, sounds like a swim bladder issue It could be a result of constipation, it could be bacterial. I'm banking on constipation given all the available food. How long has he been like that? If you were thinking of fasting the tank, now would be a reason to do so. Healthy fish are fine without food for a few weeks even as an extreme, but it is actually helpful for their digestive system to fast 24hrs once a week. So not to worry.

But your gourami shouldn't be fed at this point. Is his abdomen swollen?

Idk exactly how to treat it, but do you have any floating plants? I used an isolation container and covered the top with water lettuce to prevent my angelfish from drying out when he was having similar issues. The isolation box was also for his protection. In my case, he was fine the next day with a bunch of poop on the box floor.


I also have these to use as isolation boxes

 

the temps are 77-78 for my 29 gallon
the temps are 78-79 for the 75 gallon

the PH, I do not know at the moment but can test.
all my other fish are fine from what I can tell. it's just the dwarf gourami...he's been like this for a few days now and I thought he was just dying and I didn't know how to stop it and now I feel like an idiot because I should've researched before. I always do when something like that happens but I just ...thought he was dying for some reason. he hasn't eaten much since he's been like that, fortunately. but he likely has without me realizing it. am I screwed with his survival since it's been a few days?
I do not have floating plants, he has been hiding underneath the most shadow-y parts of the tank though up top.
should I be moving him to an isolation tank? or should I just stop feeding for a day? or both? idk i'm at a loss as to what to do

sorry forgot ppm
29 was .5
75 was .25
last I checked yesterday
I did a water change this afternoon

pH's are lower than I expected, especially because I have gravel in the tank that adjust the pH to make it neutral

the 29 is 6.6
the 75 is 6.0


so this may be an issue.

just tested ammonia, so this also takes into account me feeding them tonight at around 8pm
29: .25ppm for (both) nitrite and ammonia
75: 0ppm for nitrite and ammonia is between 0 and .25ppm
so it looks like it got better but the issue is keeping it like that and eventually getting to 0.
I know the pH may have to do with the bacteria "not sticking" so i'm a little worried about that

I’m so sorry I’m annoying lol would a pH adjuster like Seachem nuetral regulator be better or would crushed coral be better to adjust the pH? I had some crushed coral in both tanks but they must have disintegrated, which I suppose can happen. It seemed to work before and I vaguely remember my try at the powder; it made my 29 gallon extremely cloudy. I have had previous issues with low pH which is why I had the crushed coral in the tank and had experimented with the powder. I have a hunch that the low pH may be the cause of the spikes (I wish I remembered this before because I could’ve likely solved my own questions about my ammonia problem) since this was the cause last time. The good bacteria won’t attach because the pH is too acidic or something like that. After I had added the coral, the ammonia seemed to go away.

However don’t know why my water is acidic because my water water is a neutral pH. That never made sense to me

 

You are right! I can't believe we didn't ask you to test. Nitrosomanas bacteria (the bacteria responsible for converting ammonia to nitrite) takes a hit at a pH below 7. At 6.5, it is inhibited. ALL nitrifying bacteria is inhibited at a pH of 6 and below! Makes perfect sense why there is ammonia.

But I was actually asking because ammonia is less toxic the lower the pH and temperature. 1ppm would not even be toxic at that temperature until pH rises above 7.5. What I'm saying is that the level of ammonia (present mostly as ammonium) was probably not hurting your fish or a cause for the gourami's condition. Still take care to detox with Prime, just as an xtra, because ammonia will increasingly become more toxic with the pH rise, if it spikes past 1ppm, you could run into toxicity issues.

I also have soft water, I like to use crushed coral in the filter wrrapped in pantyhose like a DIY media bag. It does dissolve over time, so I keep and eye on it. Idk if you got the kh test, but I strive for a kh of 4 minimum. Kh (carbonate hardness) is what keeps your pH stable.

Your gourami sounds like he's doing ok in the main tank. As long as no one's picking at him. He can stay under the plants imo. Idk what to do for him b/c idk why he is having SBD. Is he bloated? In the abdomen?

 

I can't add the crushed coral to the filter but I am able to add it to the gravel I have and mix it in a bit (hopefully it doesn't cause the water to get cloudy fingers crossed. I'll heavily rinse it but it always somehow makes it a bit cloudy but not as cloudy as the powder of course) so I will be doing that today then. I hadn't tested because I figured it was fine because I had it in there previously, so i'm glad I was asked about it. but it's good to know they probably didn't feel the ammonia affects, but I have been consistent every other day adding the correct dosage of the prime.
I did test the kh and gh and they were normal, I forget exactly what they were because I struggled doing it (I had only done it once or twice previously so it was a little confusing and I was mixing up the kh drop colors with the gh and it's a painful story but yeah) but it came all back relatively normal for the fish I have in the tanks. (it was between 4-7 for each I believe)

the angel will occasionally pick at him but that's when he's out and about in the front of the tank rather than in the back. he is still at the top and I just feel so bad because I have no idea what to do either. he doesn't LOOK bloated but I suppose his abdomen does seem a bit more OUT than the rest of his bod but it isn't significant.

 

Hmm well, personally I prefer to have the CC contained in a media bag and placed near flow so you can test and adjust. I only had to use like 1 tbsp per 30 gallons in the filter. Can you put it in a bag in the output filter flow somehow?

If you think he's at risk, I might protect him in an isolation box, but sometimes that causes more stress too. Hard call. For constipation, fasting the fish and adding Epsom Salts to the water can help relax his muscles and reduce fluid buildup. Magnesium sulfate would increase gh too though, so I'm not sure about dosing the whole tank since your water is so soft and as acidic atm. I didn't have to dose it in my tank with my angel. Also the more acidic the water, the more buffers will affect it. If you do decide to add it to the tank, the dosage is 1tsp dissolved ES per 10 gallons. Not much really. It is also a fertilizer for plants, so no worry there.

About setting up a hospital tank, I feel you have enough on your plate dealing with raising the pH in your 29 gallon and 75g. I am hoping your gourami hangs in there until the water parameters are dealt with. Just my 2 cents.

I have full confidence your tank will cycle quickly once the pH is stable. It'll just be making sure to do water changes when necessary and dose with Prime for insurance.

A bit of info: 1ml of Prime (per tank volume) treats 1ppm of ammonia. Prime bonds ammonia (and nitrite) for 48hrs, at which time the ionic bond starts to degrade and becomes toxic again. Nitrite is toxic as well and has to detoxified like ammonia.

Nitrobacter bacteria will colonize to process the nitrite once the pH is consistently above 7, then you will see the biproduct nitrAte which is removed and flushed with water changes.

 

I can put it in the filter if it can kinda “free float”? Would that be fine? I just definetly do no have room for a bag. It’s stocked to the top

 

Yea, just pin it (or tie/pinch the pantyhose) so that the CC is in the output flow. Or plop and anchor it in the flow inside the tank somewhere. I'm not sure how your filter flow goes, but say it pours onto a piece of open decor, just hide the bag in the decor within that flow.

Like if I have to add more beneficial bacteria (for let's say a hospital tank), I'll take a piece of seasoned old floss from an estsblished tank filter and put it in the filter flow. It works every time!

 

OH I think I know what you’re ralkkng about. I was like “what do you mean the filter flow??” There is a spot there but again I’d have to let it free float. I’m wondering if I could put it on the tank floor, next to an air bubbler, in a media bag and have it work the same as if it was next to the filter

 

Yes, that's exactly what I do for sponge filters too. Plop a bag of seasoned ceramic media on top.

And if you don't get something, by all means ask next time

 

somehow managed to fit a bag in a few filters so my worrying was irrelevant. but at least I got the coral in thanks again hopefully this solves whatever is going on

 

Should’ve tested ammonia and nitrite before putting in the coral but I just tested and both are at 0ppm for both so it’s been a successful day

 

It could be in your tap. It could be a bad apI test kit. Mine reads false ammonia. It could be dying plants or animals in the tank. If there is zero nitrite and nitrates are present, it's cycled

 

nitrates are present but there was 0 nitrites. I also could've just been imagining that it was slightly green. when you're paranoid about ammonia in the tank and yellow and green are similar in tints on the card, you see more green (at least for me) than yellow. the tanks ARE cycled, I truly believe the low pH caused what was going on

 

I am so happy! Wonderful that it re-cycled so quickly It doesn't take much for a previous cycled tank to catch up biologically ime.

Did you mean tap has 0 nitrite but some nitrates? Or tank?

 

no, I didn't test the tap for anything other than the pH and the ammonia.... I meant the tank but they are gone now, the "worse" type, so i'm not too concerned. I just have to do a small WC in both to get rid of the slight cloudiness from the crushed coral but that's nothing

I also did not notice he had said "it could be tap" so I understand the confusion whoops
but to make a note, there isn't any dying plants (actually they're thriving, like way too much maybe haha) and the only fish that is questionable is the dwarf gourami, but he seems to be like ....kinda balancing out? he's exploring out of his usual corner that he's been in

 

Great news about your gourami too! Ok, nitrates are normal and what you want to see When they show up and both nitrites and ammonia are 0ppm, then it's considered cycled Or RE-cycled haha. Congrats!

If I remember correctly, you tested tap already and it was 0,0,0 ppm?

 

the ammonia and nitrite are at 0 for both my 75 and 29 gallon tanks.
the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are at 0 for my tap water.