Ammonia In Tank After Massive Water Changes

I have a 130 LTr tank that had been going for 3 months now with fish. 2x silver sharks 2x tiger barbs 2x rainbow sharks 4 be on tetras 5x guppies and 6x what I've been told are bristle nose cat fish. I can my gravel every 3 days to remove excessive waste on feed 1 time daily blood worms. And all get eaten. I have piece of drift wood and fake hollow tree.
The last 4 weeks I have been doing 60% water changes using prime but still can't get rid of ommonia my fish are very healthy still and never gasp or have bad gills. I also have a seachem ammonia alert in tank. Can anyone help please.

 

Welcome to fishlore!
What level of ammonia are you seeing? Have you tested your tap water? If you can give us your exact test results, that will really help in analyzing the issue.
You might be a little overstocked for the size of the tank.

 

0.5 ammonia 0 in tap water. 0 nitrite 0 nitrate my gravel is very clean of waste but I do leave small traces to keep cycle going.

 

if you have 0 nitrates then it is possible that its trying to cycle

 

what's the pH? low pH could be a problem.

do you rinse the filter media in old tank water?

 

Ph is 7.3 and yes always rinse my filter media in old tank water. And never let anything dry out.

This is my tank as you can see it's very clean.

 

This is my tank as you can see it's very clean.

A clean looking tank doesn't mean it's a healthy tank. As mentioned it is still trying to cycle. With that many fish I'm surprised you are only getting 0.5ppm ammonia. Are you using test strips or the master kit?

 

what filter do you have?

 

A clean looking tank doesn't mean it's a healthy tank. As mentioned it is still trying to cycle. With that many fish I'm surprised you are only getting 0.5ppm ammonia. Are you using test strips or the master kit?

Agree. You can't see ammonia, you can't see nitrites and you can't see nitrates.

 

My guess is there are too many fish and too heavy a bioload for the bacteria in the filter to keep up, this is especially true if they tank did not complete the Nitrogen cycle before adding fish. 130 liters is about 35gals and while your fish may not be adults yet, if they were you would be having major problems. For all your fish at adult size you would need something closer to a 90gal tank and even that is probably too small for the silver sharks. Good thing you are doing water changes so often.

Bristlenose plecos can get right around 5in for big males. 6 of them in that tank will not work. Only 1, maybe 2 for that tank size.

The rainbow sharks are very territorial with their own kind. Only 1 if those too.

The tiger barbs should be kept in a school of 6+. I’d shoot for 8-10 in that sized tank.

The silver (bala) sharks get quite large and they will never reach their full size in your tank. They can get up to a foot long.

The guppies are good for that tank size but the barbs may nip them. I’ve no idea what kind of tetras you have so I’ll skip them.

Lastly the feeding. Blood worms are great as a treat, not as a daily meal. Your fish should be getting a flake or small pellet food as a staple and the blood worms maybe twice a week. The BN plecos should also be getting their own food, like sinking pellets, algae wafers and boiled vegitables

 

maybe you should check your filters capacity as well. That much water change may not be good always. Because you also removing your bacterias with that water and always use non-chlorine tap water. Also you could add some duckweed

 

maybe you should check your filters capacity as well. That much water change may not be good always. Because you also removing your bacterias with that water and always use non-chlorine tap water. Also you could add some duckweed

I have to disagree with this. Their is little to no bacteria free floating in the water so water changes will not remove the bacteria. With as many fish as there are in this tank water changes are the best way to protect them from the rising ammonia.

Hopefully all the questions asked so far will be answered and we can get to the bottom of the problem. For now water changes need to be done and Prime added to detox the ammonia left in there after the water change. The test will still pick up and show the ammonia after adding Prime but it will be in a form that is safer for your fish.

 

That much water change may not be good always. Because you also removing your bacterias with that water

I respectfully disagree. Everything I've read suggests that the bacteria primary live on surfaces, not free floating in the water. As long as you dechlorinate and the temperature and pH are the same, it's really hard to overdo it with water changes.

 

Just to add, you say you are gravel vacuuming every 3 days, part of the media that holds beneficial bacteria will be anything in your tank, your substrate, plants, ornaments etc, so it may be that if you are vacuuming too thoroughly its removing enough of the beneficial bacteria to cause issues with your ammonia. I would think once weekly would be enough and then maybe only half of the tank at any one time, alternately if you like the floor clean, add in a couple of air driven sponge filters to assist with your water quality, they won't remove nitrates, so you will still need to do your water changes to keep that down, but they will certainly help with your ammonia issue once they are cycled in. Also having additional filtration in your tank will help if you ever need to pull a fish out into quarantine as you'll have a ready cycled filter to use.

 

^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^

except vacuuming the gravel too often isn't actually removing bacteria...it is removing food for bacteria. Your fish tank is the one thing in your home that shouldn't be kept spotlessly clean on the inside.

 

I have to disagree with this. Their is little to no bacteria free floating in the water so water changes will not remove the bacteria. With as many fish as there is in this tank water changes are the best way to protect them from the rising ammonia.

Hopefully all the questions asked so far will be answered and we can get to the bottom of the problem. For now water changes need to be done and Prime added to detox the ammonia left in there after the water change. The test will still pick up and show the ammonia after adding Prime but it will be in a form that is safer for your fish.

I respectfully disagree. Everything I've read suggests that the bacteria primary live on surfaces, not free floating in the water. As long as you dechlorinate and the temperature and pH are the same, it's really hard to overdo it with water changes.

If we think like that, then we can just remove %90 of water and put new water like it is normal and we shouldn't have any issue about it if pH, temperature etc. is still same. Water change should never effect biological cycle then. Is this possible? (no offense of course I'm just asking )

 

If we think like that, then we can just remove %90 of water and put new water like it is normal and we shouldn't have any issue about it if pH, temperature etc. is still same. Water change should never effect biological cycle then. Is this possible? (no offense of course I'm just asking )

Ergun - I'd say the short answer is yes. If the water parameters are the same and you dechlorinate, then you can change all the water you want without losing your cycle.

The slightly longer answer is that there are other reasons not to do huge water changes. Draining that much water out of the tank at once is likely stressful to the fish (just like we might panic if we were in an enclosed space that was getting smaller and smaller), so unless you have some kind of continuous water change setup (so the water level doesn't drop) or you have a really urgent reason to change that much water immediately, you're probably better off doing multiple smaller water changes.

Also, if it has been a very long time since the last water change, the parameters of your tap water will probably NOT be very close, because various chemicals have built up or depleted over time. So again, a very large water change would likely stress the fish.

However, you'll notice that I said it would stress the fish---not the bacteria. As long as you dechlorinate and you don't let your filter media dry out, I think it's very unlikely that you'd significantly disrupt your beneficial bacteria, even if you changed all of the water every day.

 

Thank you Rowan You saved me from having to type out basically what you said.

 

Ill bet your water has ammonia in it before you even add it to the tank. test that

 

Ill bet your water has ammonia in it before you even add it to the tank. test that

The OP stated that there is zero ammonia in the source water.

 

The OP stated that there is zero ammonia in the source water.

somehow I missed that part totally.

OP you have way too many fish in that small of a tank and its just going to get worse. rehome the balas tiger barbs and one of the rainbow sharks at a minimum. and try and find homes for the bristle noses or go get a 100 gallon tank minimum and put them all in there. the rainbows can live together in a large tank as they may set up homes at different ends of the tank

 

alright...it's been 2 or so weeks and there is STILL ammonia in my established tanks.
one has been set up for a year and 2 months
the other has been set up for almost 7 months

I haven't added any fish for a couple months now, so that is not my concern. I also haven't changed what i've been doing with my water changes. but it ~still won't go away. I have been using prime to condition the water so it keeps the fish somewhat unaware of the ammonia being in the tanks but I can't just keep hoping this will solve the problem...... and I can't afford to keep dosing the tanks every other day with it and at some point it will become useless (the 5x rule?? for it??)

we were slightly overfeeding, and now we have significantly lessened the food we give to them.
i'm wondering what this issue could be.
the tank that's been set up for over a year, a 29 gallon, has done this to me before but it hasn't since about last april/may. it has been consistently at 0 ammonia since then up until last week.
the other one, which is a 75 gallon tank, has done this but it's been consistent since a couple weeks ago. and before that, I did not once have an issue with ammonia, except for when I added fish (my fault, but that ammonia went away in 24 hours, believe it or not). and that was in probably october/november.

I mean, I could stop feeding for a day or two and do a water change but i'm not sure if that will solve the problem...
there are HUNDREDS of pest snails in the tanks, could that be an issue?
other than that, I don't know what else it could be.
I need guidance on what I am doing wrong here....

thank you in advance

also, another question... if I did go about the no feeding for a few days.........how will that affect my fish?? I mean I have a pleco and he's gotta eat, can I keep giving him the zucchinI I do while in the no feeding stage? will my angel go hungry? i'm not worried about the mollies or the tetras but it's moreso the plecos and angel and kuhlI loaches.. also I can't stop my puffer from eating the snails, so?

 

What type of filter and how often cleaning it?
What is the ammonia in the water you are using for the water changes?
Have you tried adding benifical bacteria-Stability - microbater-Safestart?
Just a thought

 

What type of filter and how often cleaning it?
What is the ammonia in the water you are using for the water changes?
Have you tried adding benifical bacteria-Stability - microbater-Safestart?
Just a thought

I have bio-wheel filters and clean the media in one for one water change and then the other 2 weeks later. kinda like to balance it out that way so it isn't ALL at once. but i'm not sure exactly how often I should be cleaning it so I could be mistaken and be cleaning it too much or not often enough.

I have 0 ammonia in the water I use for water changes, I did test that.
I have been using stability as well and it doesn't seem to be doing anything.



I mean, would it be any help to change these filters? I keep going back and forth between if I need to upgrade but I keep getting told I don't need to...

 

How do you clean the filters? Rinse in tap water or old tank water?

I find it odd that both tanks are registering ammonia with no ammonia in source water...

I feel 2 200's are ok for the 29g, depending on your stocking in the 75g, it's possible more filtration is needed. I'm not sure, I use canister filters for tacks larger than 40 gallons. On my 33gs, I use an Aquaclear 70 on each tank.

Have you siphoned the substrate well? No caught decaying food in there?

 

The pest snails are a sure sign of overfeeding.
Zeolite will absorb ammonia and might be usefull to keep some handy to deal with spikes until you find the issue

 

How do you clean the filters? Rinse in tap water or old tank water?

I find it odd that both tanks are registering ammonia with no ammonia in source water...

I feel 2 200's are ok for the 29g, depending on your stocking in the 75g, it's possible more filtration is needed. I'm not sure, I use canister filters for tacks larger than 40 gallons. On my 33gs, I use an Aquaclear 70 on each tank.

Have you siphoned the substrate well? No caught decaying food in there?

I use old tank water. I tend to siphon the gravel and then after it gets to a certain point, I take the hose out and start using a cup to get the water out and clean the media and shake the bag it's in and pour water over it. there tends to not be any decaying food since I have the snails that are scouring the floor.

I was considering a canister but I don't want to be excessive in my filtering lol

The pest snails are a sure sign of overfeeding.
Zeolite will absorb ammonia and might be usefull to keep some handy to deal with spikes until you find the issue

I have zeolite but again I know that's also just putting a bandaid on the problem so i've been avoiding using it, plus I don't have much room in my filters with how much media I have in there... the snails in there were supposed to help me feed my puffer, but obviously it got overboard. they tend to climb up on the wood I have in the tank and eat the zucchinI I have in the tanks to feed the pleco and i'm not exactly sure how to stop them from eating it.

 

Snail traps?
Metallic ring around a dish???

 

I know it'll sound ridiculous but I really don't want ALL the snails gone but how would I go about a snail tank...? i've tried to keep one before but it failed, I have a 10 gal currently available so I could use that. would removing snails help any of my issue?

 

They only eat the leftover food so if there's too much food then population grows, not instantly tho so shouldn't be a direct cause as long as your filters are sized well.
How consistent is your feeding?

 

I could be way off base but I am thinking there is not enough filtration. I don't think it is possible to have too much filtration. Too much water movement yes but never too much filtration.

With all those snails in there along with a pleco and mollies there is a very heavy bio-load. It is going to take heavy filtration to keep up with the bio-load.

Since these tanks are cycled and up 'til now free of ammonia I am thinking .... before the snail population exploded and your fish grew up there was enough filtration to handle the load. Now you need more filtration or fewer fish and a lot fewer snails. Snails eat, poop and breed....constantly.

I don't think I would be continually adding the Stability. A cycled tank shouldn't need it and it is just adding one more thing that may be confusing your tests.

 

I think zeolite is a better solution in medium term, prime just for emergency.
You can put it in a net bag near the intake and it will work just as well

 

to be fair, there is only 2 mollies but I still know they are high on the bio-load. I will look more into filtration, for now I can do water change(s). as for zeolite, if the ammonia becomes more than 1ppm (which it hasn't, it's gotten to .5ppm and no higher), I will add some in. I surely don't think I'M purposely overfeeding, they will climb the wood like it's nothing and feast on the pleco's zucchini. I can't add loaches until the ammonia is gone and I move either so that's out of the question for now for the snails.

 

I know it'll sound ridiculous but I really don't want ALL the snails gone but how would I go about a snail tank...? i've tried to keep one before but it failed, I have a 10 gal currently available so I could use that. would removing snails help any of my issue?

Removing most of them definitely will help lower the bio-load in your tank.

My main tank got infested with ramshorn snails. I wanted them gone. I tried all the different suggestions for getting rid of them. I ended up getting assassin snails and they took care of the problem. You need them for your puffer so assassins may not be an option. The pest snails may reproduce faster than either assassins or puffer can eat them though so may be an option to help keep them under control

I found a few that the assassins missed in one of my filters. I decided to put them in their own tank and let them breed in there so I would have some to occasionally feed to my assassins. It is just a 2.5 gallon jar with small heater and airstone. No filter but it does have Pothis (ivy) growing out of the top of it. I feed them mostly iceberg lettuce but also give them fish food (flakes, crisps, shrimp pellets and algae wafers) a couple of times a week. Not all at the same time of course.

I have a thriving colony of ramshorn snails in the jar. I take out a few each week and put them in my tanks. They usually have time to clean what little algae I have in my tanks before the assassins find and eat them.

You can remove lots of the pests from your tanks by hanging a leaf of lettuce in the tank each night and pull it out each morning covered in snails. Either kill and toss or put them in their own container.

 

I use old tank water. I tend to siphon the gravel and then after it gets to a certain point, I take the hose out and start using a cup to get the water out and clean the media and shake the bag it's in and pour water over it. there tends to not be any decaying food since I have the snails that are scouring the floor.

I was considering a canister but I don't want to be excessive in my filtering

Ok tx, just trying to rule stuff out. Just what would be a constant source of ammonia the BB is not processing? There is more ammonia being produced in both tanks than biological can handle. There appears to be insufficient surface for nitrifying bacteria I agree with mattgirl. What type of media do you have in the HOBs?

I forgot about the snails ok, well they are adding to the bioload regardless.
What mattgirl said. Another way to control snail population is to feed less. I have had 1 hitchhiker pond snail in my 10 gallon for months now. He is huge now. Absolutely no baby snails. Granted this is a lightly stocked bare-bottom tank with soft water. It's difficult for snails to maintain their shells. Just saying it is possible to keep only one pond snail haha! I wouldn't be surprised if I suddenly found a bunch of babies though lol.

I have ramshorns snails in my pleco growout tank, they survive because of all the food I feed them on the bottom and replenished minerals in the frequently changed water.

 

I might try to move a ton of them to a 10 gallon tank and hope it works better than the previous time I did it. and in time get some yoyo's. I have all different types, balls, ceramic (different types), etc. i'm worried about assassin snails because of my mystery's but the puffer hasn't attacked mine at all so i'm glad about that. if when I get the yoyo's I see them attack the mystery's, I'll just move them to my 20 gallon

 

I wonder if the problem is keeping a culture of snails with the predators. You'll have to feed the the tank enough to keep the snails going. Catch 22.

A plant growing out of the snail tub could dramatically control the ammonia and nitrAte. Plus floating plants. I use soil bottoms (let it cycle) whenever I was ever trying to keep snails. The soil holds a ton of bacteria for me and keeps my softwater buffered. I don't even necessarily use a filter, but some water movement would be best. You could even plant it with low light easy plants and use sunlight. Essentially a little ecosystem if you get the right balance.

 

I might try to move a ton of them to a 10 gallon tank and hope it works better than the previous time I did it. and in time get some yoyo's. I have all different types, balls, ceramic (different types), etc. i'm worried about assassin snails because of my mystery's but the puffer hasn't attacked mine at all so i'm glad about that. if when I get the yoyo's I see them attack the mystery's, I'll just move them to my 20 gallon

You probably don't want to take a chance on assassins but I think as long as they have smaller snails to eat they will leave the full grown mysteries alone. If you have babies though I suspect they would get eaten.

I actually run 2 hob filters filled with ceramic media, matrix, lava rocks and poly-fill and also run 2 dual sponge filters on my 55 gallon tank. Since I don't depend on the poly-fill for holding bacteria I can replace it as needed. If you don't have room in your filters to add more media you might want to consider add a couple of sponge filters or at least one big one. I like running 2 smaller ones because they are easier to hide behind deco.

 

You probably don't want to take a chance on assassins but I think as long as they have smaller snails to eat they will leave the full grown mysteries alone. If you have babies though I suspect they would get eaten.

I actually run 2 hob filters filled with ceramic media, matrix, lava rocks and poly-fill and also run 2 dual sponge filters on my 55 gallon tank. Since I don't depend on the poly-fill for holding bacteria I can replace it as needed. If you don't have room in your filters to add more media you might want to consider add a couple of sponge filters or at least one big one. I like running 2 smaller ones because they are easier to hide behind deco.

i'm so happy you said this because I actually forgot I added a sponge filter (it's the lustar V) about 3 weeks ago (didn't add one to the 29 gallon however I switched out the filter bottoms to the filters and replaced them with "media" like cloth and made-shifted a sponge filter). AND am now using polyfil - but the polyfil is for catching the small particles not the bio-media so i've been replacing these every water change or so.

I wonder if the problem is keeping a culture of snails with the predators. You'll have to feed the the tank enough to keep the snails going. Catch 22.

A plant growing out of the snail tub could dramatically control the ammonia and nitrAte. Plus floating plants. I use soil bottoms (let it cycle) whenever I was ever trying to keep snails. The soil holds a ton of bacteria for me and keeps my softwater buffered. I don't even necessarily use a filter, but some water movement would be best. You could even plant it with low light easy plants and use sunlight. Essentially a little ecosystem if you get the right balance.

are you talking about why I had issues with a snail tank before? if so, I think the issue was that there was no fish in it so the snail died. so I may get a few guppies or something for the tank if I do this to keep something else other than snails in it. I didn't have real plants in it last time either so i'd likely add a plant to it as well.

 

i'm so happy you said this because I actually forgot I added a sponge filter (it's the lustar V) about 3 weeks ago (didn't add one to the 29 gallon however I switched out the filter bottoms to the filters and replaced them with "media" like cloth and made-shifted a sponge filter). AND am now using polyfil - but the polyfil is for catching the small particles not the bio-media so i've been replacing these every water change or so.

Do you have any ceramic media? Not saying floss and sponge doesn't hold BB, but it is my understanding it will colonize better on ceramic media designed for biological filtering.

This is how I personally set up my HOBs. Small layer of floss on the bottom, the rest is ceramic biological media in a media bag. I use a sponge prefilter. I just swish the media bag of bio in old tank water at WC time. I rinse the floss or replace. Rinse the sponge prefilter. I rinse the prefilter more often if needed in old tank water.

are you talking about why I had issues with a snail tank before? if so, I think the issue was that there was no fish in it so the snail died. so I may get a few guppies or something for the tank if I do this to keep something else other than snails in it. I didn't have real plants in it last time either so i'd likely add a plant to it as well.

Actually I thought you were keeping pond snails in the main tanks to feed the puffer (later loaches). So are you keeping a culture of food in the same tank as the fish your feeding them to?
That to me would be pretty demanding of the bio.