Ammonia in my tap water and in my tank

HI I'm new here but I've been reading a lot of other posts on here! I have had a 10 gallon for about a month and a half now. It has one little fair goldfish in it that I got unexpectedly and have struggled to take care of from the begging! I tried to do everything I needed to to cycle the tank and thought it was cycled since the ammonia was very high and then went down not completely to zero but down then nitrites went up and then down they are very low at this point and now nitrates are going up. I have not done a water change in two weeks because the last one I tried the fish was seriously freaking out swimming very fast and acting like it was hurting him! This was when the nitrites were super high! I would like to change the water now but yesterday I had a bucket out and decided to test before putting it in. The ammonia in the bucket tested higher for ammonia then in the tank! I realize this must be because of chlorimine that's in the tap water and I do use prime for the water changes I had been doing. I also tested the water straight out of the tap that did not sit out it tested like there was no ammonia in it! SO I would like to know if anyone knows why tap water that has sat out would show up with ammonia and tap water that has not shows no ammonia? Also I'm at a loss for what to do about water changes if there is still ammonia in the tank and my tap water in fact has ammonia in it won't I be adding more ammonia to the tank? Even using prime it seems like after 24 hours the bond ammonia will become free ammonia again!! Is that correct? Is spring water an option even though I've been using the tap water since I've got the fish? I realize that in a good cycled tank the chlorimine which is broken down by the prime the ammonia would be consumed by the BB but if there's still ammonia showing up in my tank I'm thinking it will not consume more ammonia that I will be adding with water changes!!

 

CindiL, this is your department!

In the meantime, can you provide exact numbers for your ammonia levels? Prime will break down chloramine but one of the products of that breakdown is ammonia so you need to dose double what you would otherwise need in order to neutralize both. And then enough to neutralize nitrites.

I will also say that you are going to need a much bigger tank, preferably a pond, to successfully keep a carnival goldfish. Even when all they produce an epic amount of waste and you will have to do daily water changes to have any hope of cycling the tank.

Can be done though!

Welcome to the forum

 

So I should change the water with the tap water? The tap water after sitting out tests the highest color on the chart!! I know I need to get a bigger tank and I want to however I wanted to make sure the fish was going to live to the point I could get a bigger tank cycled right now he doesn't look super good! I wanted to start small with the water changes since I haven't done them for two weeks so if I have two gallons sitting out how much prime should I add and when should I add it? As of yesterday ammonia was about 2.0 nitrites were 0.25 and nitrates around 20 but like I said the water in the bucket I tested was like 8.0 for ammonia!! I also set up a small 3 gallon tank that I'm filtering ammo chips through to see if I can get the ammonia in the tap down I tested that this morning and it was around 2.0 like the tank is is there any down side to using that water and if not I added 6 drops of prime to it yesterday when I set it up I was told 2 drops to a gallon should I dose it again with prime before adding? My understanding is that after 24 hours the ammonia is free again so since it's still testing positive I'm guessing it's free ammonia now will it hurt to dose this water again?

 

Oh good, it sounds like your tank is actually cycled! The filter isn't handling the whole bioload though which could be due to a number of factors. For a goldfish you'll need a bigger filter than you might otherwise. What filter do you have and what is the gph rating if you know?

The reason you see ammonia after the water sits out is because the chloramine, which won't show up on your test, breaks down and releases the ammonia component. You may need to dose Prime to the maximum amount (5 times a single dose I think?) and then run a separate filter with the ammonia remover.

If you upgrade the fish now you can just move everything over except the old water for an instant cycle. You will need to run the new filter alongside the old or put the old media in the new filter

CindiL has the best advice on dealing with bad tap water. I don't have that problem so I don't have as much experience.

 

That is good to know about the chlorimine! And makes sense!! I think I'm going to try to dose the water I have running through the ammo chips tonight with another does of prime and then try to add it to the tank I am keeping my fingers crossed that the fish doesn't freak out like before but I think he was because I wasn't putting enough prime in the water so if I doesed it originally for the amount to take out the chlorine part and now that it's after 24 hours I should probably just does the same amount as before so it binds to the remaining ammonia? I am dying to get one of those test kits that just test the free ammonia but can not find them at any local store! I will also look into setting up a bigger tank this poor fish has been through a lot and was really nervous about changing his tank right at the moment if something went wrong and he had to go through another cycle I don't know if he would make it!! But I feel like I defiantly need to put more water in the tank he is in now! I wish I could just use spring water! I don't mind the price but I'm nervous because I read spring water can have all different ranges of ph

 

How would I go about asking cindiL? I don't know much about posting I just signed up and started typing lol lol lol

 

Hi, welcome to fishlore

Will you take a sample of your tap water, add prime to it and then test it for ammonia so we can get an accurate idea of how much ammonia is in there?

After a month and a half you should be cycled or close to it. How have you been rinsing your filter media? Have you thrown out or replaced any? Make sure to rinse the media in old tank water during a water change and never throw out your media until it's falling apart. Depending on the filter you have there are different ways to handle when you need to replace old falling apart media.

What is the ph of your tap and tank water?

Did you ever use a bacterial additive like Seachem Stability?

Answer these questions and do the test and we can go from there!

 

HI there! if I take one gallon of my tap water and does it with the correct amount of prime and then test it tests at 8.0 the highest on the chart! It's the same reading as if I let the water sit out for some time and test it without adding any prime I have not touched the filter as far as replacing it or cleaning it I have checked it several times and it doesn't look clogged at all it's just brown I was told to leave it alone because most of the BB is in there it's just a hang on the back filter that came with the 10 gallon tank the ph is around 7.4 out of the tap and pretty much the same color when I test from the tank as well I think the tank is pretty much cycled but I think maybe the BB can't handle the amount of ammonia the fish is making and I'm afraid with an ammonia reading like that out of the tap it might make it worse! But I've used this water since I had the fish! The ammonia reading out of the water I was filtering through the ammonia chips is lower though could I redoes that with the prime and use that?

Sorry I also have not been using bottle bacteria I was using nite out 2 up until about 2 weeks ago but I felt like I might be doing to much to the tank with water changes everyday plus prime plus the nite out it seemed like the cycle was never gonna end plus I've never had a fish before! Once I left it alone for the two weeks the nitrites dropped and the nitrates went up and ammonia was also low never at zero yet but I'm thinking it's because of the tap water! And that's where I am now I really feel like the fish needs fresh water but I don't want to cause the ammoina leave to go even higher and end up really hurting him or worse!

 

You are not quite cycled. If you were cycled your ammonia would be 0 and nitrites 0. The bacteria always grow just enough to handle whatever bio-load they are given. I would for sure be rinsing your filter media in the tank water you remove. Swish it around really good before putting it back in. Old food and poop on the filter can make your ammonia levels spike. Also do a thorough vacuum of the substrate to make sure you are getting his poop and any left over food sucked out of there as that can also contribute to your ammonia levels. Goldfish are big poopers! I have four in my patio pond and you wouldn't believe the amount they poop in a week lol.

Wow, that is some high tap ammonia! Don't see that very often at all. That means your water company is using a lot of choramines. I would definitely run your water change water through the ammo chip routine as that is MUCH better.

What you can do is dose prime every 24 hours for the full 10 gallon of water to keep your little guy safe. At a PH of 7.4, depending on the temperature of your tank, up to about .75 of ammonia would be non-toxic in its ammonium form. Dosing prime every day will keep the rest detoxified. It will still register on your test kit but you'll just know that if you're dosing prime then they're safe. Adding some aquatic plants will help with the ammonia also as they will consume ammonia when its readily available. Eventually once you're cycled and you do a water change with the reduced ammonia water, then a 50% water change would only be adding in 1.0 ammonia. Your nitrifyers will easily be able to handle that amount in 1 to 2 days and as long as you're using prime he will be safe.

Nite Out 2 is a good product so it was probably helping. If you still have that I would say its good to keep using it until you're cycled. If you're out of it, I'd pick up some Seachem Stability.

If he lives through all of this then I would upgrade his tank. The problem is with the carnival fish they are usually common gold fish and can get up to 10-12 inches long! So you can see why he can't stay in that tank. One common would probably be ok in a 40 gallon breeder long term but if you know anyone with a pond would be happiest there and then you could have tropical fish in your 10 gallon

 

Thank you so much for you advice! so you think if I redose the three gallons I have running through the ammo chips now with 6 drops of prime and then change the water with that plus swish the filter out with the old tank water plus gravel vac that would be ok? Then after that I should just put 10 drops of prime in the tank every 24 hours if it's still testing for ammoina? Can adding prime directly hurt him in anyway? Would changing the water every other day be ok as long as the 24 hours is up? And I can defiantly get some plants this week! I will just go ahead and get a bigger tank this week also and try to get the cycle going and hopefully he will be ok until it's complete! I really don't know anyone with a pond that could take him so hopefully he will just be ok! Oh yeah and the nite out I guess I should just does that as directed on the bottle it says every other day but will that be ok with the prime? Sorry for all the questions

 

Yes I think that would be fine. If your ammonia is currently at 2.0, a 50% water change would be better but if you have the water ready to go then anything will help. You can change the water every day or every other day, it doesn't matter if the 24 hours is up, just helps to know when you really should change it by testing. Its hard to overdose prime so I wouldn't worry about it at all. They say you can dose 5x the amount needed in an emergency like with high nitrites. And no, prime can't hurt him in any way by direct dosing it to the tank, that's what I do every week. Always add the prime before you add any water with ammonia, not after or he'll freak out for sure with that ammonia. Yes, nite out should be fine with prime, the only bacteria that I know of that has an issue with dechlorinators of any kind and the time you dose is Tetra Safe Start Plus.

As far as buying a tank, I don't know what kind of room you have or space requirements or budget but a long/wide tank is always better for a goldfish then a tall one. If you're hoping to keep him long term then I'd recommend the longest tank you can find in your budget. He'll outgrow a 20long but it will work for a good year at least. If you can find a 33 long (which is what I have) they are four feet long and the same similar dimensions as the 20 for height and depth. They are hard to find though. There is a 30 gallon breeder and a 40 gallon breeder which are also longer than their 30 gallon and 40 gallon counterparts. A lot of stores will order you a tank, even petsmart etc. if they don't have what you want.

 

Thank you again so much for your advice!! I so appreciate it!! I have one more question now though I was just testing everything to start to put the new water back in and everything seems to be the same except the ammoina is slightly higher which we talked about and I'm adding the prime but now also it looks like the kh is slightly different! ph is the same can I still add the water if the kh has changed in the tank? I'm actually not really sure what the kh is? But it looks like it's moderate to low! Is that bad? Will a water change help?

 

If the pH is close then you'll be fine to add the water. If you're concerned about upsetting the fish or altering the parameters drastically then change a smaller volume of water, wait a bit, then change another portion of water. How much are you changing each time?

 

I just am doing about a gallon now and then was going to do about a gallon when I wake up in the am I'm adding really slowly like a cup and then waiting a few minutes and then adding another cup the fish seems like he's moving around faster then he was before he keeps pecking at the gravel looking for food which he does do that a lot anyway hopefully this is a good sign I hope I shouldn't have added more prime! I'm also gonna call my township building first thing tomorrow and ask them if there's anything else in there I should be worried about! I was trying to read up on the kh if your kh is low can your ph crash?

 

Yes, KH buffers the water against pH drops because the nitrification process produces acids. With decent KH the acids are neutralized

I think you'll be safe changing more water at one time.

 

that stinks about the kh being low then!! every time I turn around there is a new problem!! If I'm adding new water with good kh even if it's only 2 gallons or less Will that help it from not crashing?

 

Yes, definitely! What's the KH out of your tap?

 

It's pretty high I only have test strips for that not a liquid test kit like I have for the other stuff but out of the tank it's moderate to low out of the tap it's ideal!

 

Do they make liquid tests for kh? I guess I'll add that to the list if they do! I never though in my life I'd spend so much money on a 29 cent fish but hey he's a little life and I care for him a lot!!

 

Do they make liquid tests for kh? I guess I'll add that to the list if they do! I never though in my life I'd spend so much money on a 29 cent fish but hey he's a little life and I care for him a lot!!

Yes, they do make liquid GH/KH tests! I have one. Pretty sure it saved my fish's lives

As for the cost, we know. Trust me, we know

 

They do make a liquid test kit but if your tap water is ideal then large weekly water changes is what you will want. The ammonia is more concerning then the KH. I would really be changing out a lot more water to get the ammonia down.