Ammonia And Ammonium And A Ryukin

Lauradesu
  • #1
I checked the levels of my fish tank that is on its 15th day of cycling everything seemed fine, where is should be according to the apI master kit...everything but the ammonia. Now I'm no fool I know what ammonia can do to a fish so I started googling a better way to test for free ammonia since the apI test can't tell ammonia and ammonium apart. I found the seachum ammonia (free and total) test kit and I bought it with out hesitation. The ammonia is laying around at 0.1 ppm (at least I think it tests at ppm) but its EXTREMELY low on the scale that goes with it, we also have top fin ammonia remover and we have been using that. I'll post pictures of where the ammonia is but the ammonium Is out of control. This all boils down to one of my three ryukins in my 50 gallon tank. When we got him he was just orange and white but hes gotten bigger and we don't know if hes just changing colour or some how got ammonia burn....but we don't know how since it's so low or if I'm missing something I'll also post a picture of him as well.
 

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OneLittleBubble
  • #2
Do plenty of water changes, and if it gets out of control use some seachem prime to lower to ammonia
 
Dch48
  • #3
Ammonium is non-toxic so shouldn't damage anything. It's high because of using things like Prime or another ammonia "remover" that claim to remove Ammonia but actually only convert the toxic ammonia to the non-toxic ammonium. The beneficial bacteria consume both types.
 
Lauradesu
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
Ammonium is non-toxic so shouldn't damage anything. It's high because of using things like Prime or another ammonia "remover" that claim to remove Ammonia but actually only convert the toxic ammonia to the non-toxic ammonium. The beneficial bacteria consume both types.
Yes but is my ryukin okay? Or is he just turning into a calico coloured ryukin

I really need to know if my ryukin has burns I'm really worried here. They look like hes actually changing colour because when I first got him he was orange and white then he turned orange white and slightly gold then he started getting darker orange patches and some black but he looks like hes going calico but I don't know

Okay so I posted a thread some where else about ammonia and ammonium I know the difference and which one is toxic. My ammonia is very low right now (0.1ppm) and I'm not sure if my ryukin Is just changing colour or has ammonia burn some how. He started orange and white then started to get gold to him now he has dark orange spots and some black but it doesn't look like burns to my knowledge it looks like hes going calico but I'm not sure. I'll post a picture I just need help
 

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Albifrons
  • #5
It doesn't look like there's anything wrong with him to me, the black is just his skin changing color as he matures.
 
Lauradesu
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
It doesn't look like there's anything wrong with him to me, the black is just his skin changing color as he matures.
Ah so he is going calico on us, kinda figured that's what was happening because he started changing colour already.
 
Ms rose
  • #7
gold fish and other fish change color as they age. I would say that is what's going on.
 
Lauradesu
  • Thread Starter
  • #8
So we did a 50% water change on my 50 gallon yesterday. My water readings for yesterday after the water change were as such:
*EDIT* this is the 15th day of my tank cycling


Ph: 7.4
Ammonia: 0.2ppm
Nitrite: 2.0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm



And now today they are
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia: 0.1ppm
Nitrite: 0.25ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm



So as you can see my ammonia dropped but that's fine because the ammonium is ....really high but meh and the nitrite dropped over night and through the day and we don't know how because we didn't add anything to it other than the aquavita seed liquid to the filter and the nitrates are gone WHY ARE THEY GONE?
 
Kyleena696
  • #9
Is the tank heavily planted?

Edit: did you happen to clean/replace your filter media?
 
fjh
  • #10
Plants and algae can use up nitrates, but you would have to have a lot to see a drastic decrease.

I have *heard* about nitrates gassing off sometimes but the people never manage to repeat it so most likely it was due to somethung else.
 
Lauradesu
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
I only have three plants in my 50 gallon and they aren't taking up that much. This is its 15th day of cycling so I'm seriously confused if this is a bad thing and also I haven't replaced anything

Plants and algae can use up nitrates, but you would have to have a lot to see a drastic decrease.

I have *heard* about nitrates gassing off sometimes but the people never manage to repeat it so most likely it was due to somethung else.
What else could cause this in a cycling tank and is this bad.
 
Kyleena696
  • #12
I only have three plants in my 50 gallon and they aren't taking up that much. This is its 15th day of cycling so I'm seriously confused if this is a bad thing and also I haven't replaced anything
Did you clean the filter media when you did the water change?
 
Mom2some
  • #13
I would retest first. There are multiple places to make unintentional errors when doing the liquid nitrate test. Bang the HECK out of bottle #2 - against the floor, counter, your knee, etc. before you test. Add drops from bottle #1, then cap & shake for 5 second, add drops from bottle #2, shake for 1 full minute, then let sit for 5 min, then read the results.
Also - have you tested your source water? Maybe you had nitrates there which were giving you false readings & now they are gone? (Just guessing on this second one since my tap Ammonia can vary from 0 to 4.0!)
 
Lauradesu
  • Thread Starter
  • #14
Did you clean the filter media when you did the water change?
I never do that, you're not suppose to clean it right?

I would retest first. There are multiple places to make unintentional errors when doing the liquid nitrate test. Bang the HECK out of bottle #2 - against the floor, counter, your knee, etc. before you test. Add drops from bottle #1, then cap & shake for 5 second, add drops from bottle #2, shake for 1 full minute, then let sit for 5 min, then read the results.
Also - have you tested your source water? Maybe you had nitrates there which were giving you false readings & now they are gone? (Just guessing on this second one since my tap Ammonia can vary from 0 to 4.0!)
I just did all that you said before you posted this and still getting a reading of 0!!! I had to call my dad for help and even hes scratching his head because we did nothing and they just proofed! Our water has no nitrates but our 15 gallon has nitrates right now but it's only been cycling for 7 days
 
Mom2some
  • #15
I never do that, you're not suppose to clean it right?

You are (esp the mechanical filtration will need physical removal of funk - but you want to use tank water or dechlorinated water so as not to damage your B.B.
 
Kyleena696
  • #16
I never do that, you're not suppose to clean it right?

You're supposed to clean it in dirty tank water. [edit: or clean dechlorinated water as stated above. I use tank water during a water change just to be extra safe].I do mine every 2-3 weeks, whenever my filters start to slow down a bit.

I was just throwing out ideas that could have sucked up your nitrates or destroyed your cycle. I'm stumped now.
 
Mom2some
  • #17
I would wait 12-24 hours & retest. We had a poster who was getting a clear result, not even yellow, one night. With a test kit that had worked previously, was not out of date, etc and then the next night bang - it was normal again. Unless your nitrates were super low, a large water change should not make them zero. What media are you using in your tank?
 
Kyleena696
  • #18
What do you use as a dechlorinator?
Also, what were the parameters before your water change?
I would wait 12-24 hours & retest. We had a poster who was getting a clear result, not even yellow, one night. With a test kit that had worked previously, was not out of date, etc and then the next night bang - it was normal again. Unless your nitrates were super low, a large water change should not make them zero. What media are you using in your tank?

Doesn't prime interfer with test results if it be hasn't been 12-24 hours since it's added? I don't know if it affects nitrate or not though.
 
Cardeater
  • #19
What do you use as a dechlorinator?
Also, what were the parameters before your water change?


Doesn't prime interfer with test results if it be hasn't been 12-24 hours since it's added? I don't know if it affects nitrate or not though.

I thought the only effect from prime is that locked up ammonia or nitrate still show up on the test even though they are detoxified?
 
Kyleena696
  • #20
I thought the only effect from prime is that locked up ammonia or nitrate still show up on the test even though they are detoxified?
Did you mean nitrite?
I honestly don't know. I've just read that once you add prime you wait 12-24 hours to test because it can skew the test results but I've never heard anyone say how it changes the results.
 
Cardeater
  • #21
Seachem says prime can detoxify all three: ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.
 
Kyleena696
  • #22
Seachem says prime can detoxify all three: ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.

I've never heard that. Only ever heard that it's up to 1PPM of ammonia and nitrite for 24-48 (oops) hours at standard dosing.

Link?

Edit: so I found this link. Prime questions... - Seachem Support Forums They don't know how their product works at elevated dosages. And I'm assuming from binding only 1PPM of Ammonia and nitrite that it still only binds 1 PPM of nitrate which would be a negligible effect in most tanks.

Questions about Prime - Seachem Support Forums
 
Mom2some
  • #23
Checking back in to see if your nitrates have stayed gone?
 
Ms rose
  • #24
I'm curious as well,... any change in nitRAtes?
 
Rtessy
  • #25
Oh, if you're using the API freshwater master kit I've found out that if the nitrates are 2 or above it gives a false nitrate reading.
 
Lauradesu
  • Thread Starter
  • #26
Okay so we cleaned the filter with dechlorinated water and some water from the tank left it over night and just tested today and STILL no nitrates and the nitrites are dropping now and the ammonia is super low (0.05ppm) I don't know I was told that you don't actually need nitrates but I have plants but they aren't dying at all they are super healthy I don't get it.
 
Mom2some
  • #27
Since I have nitrates at 5-10 out of the tap here - I will just have you ship me some of your amazing vanishing nitrate water. I assume the test is within it’s date & you are still getting nitrates for your other tank?
 
Lauradesu
  • Thread Starter
  • #28
Since I have nitrates at 5-10 out of the tap here - I will just have you ship me some of your amazing vanishing nitrate water. I assume the test is within it’s date & you are still getting nitrates for your other tank?
The test is within its date and yes I just tested my other tank and it's at 20ppm today!!! Hollllyyyy! And we tested out waters there are NO nitrates straight out of the tap actually there is nothing and its naturally at a ph of 7.4 at all times. I have no idea what we did but our readings for everything on our 50 gallon and they are as follows:
Ph:7.4
Ammonia: 0.05ppm
Nitrite: 0.25ppm
Nitrate: ABSOLUTELY ZERO

I don't even know if my tank is still cycling or has cycled with the readings I'm getting.


We have no idea what's going on because our 15 gallon has almost 20ppm for nitrate and very little nitrite and no ammonia at all so if some one can tell me if they are still cycling or have cycled please let me know
 
Lauradesu
  • Thread Starter
  • #29
My 50 gallon tank readings are as follows
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia: 0.05ppm
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: 0
I'm not sure if its cycled or cycling it's on its 16th day today since I started but I have no nitrates and haven't since yesterday and we tested several times the nitrites are dropping rapidly and the ammonia is almost non existant at this point.

Our 15 gallon is on day 8 its levels are as follows:
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0.5ppm
Nitrate: 20ppm


Can anyone tell me if either have cycled or are cycling or close to being finished cycling because I'm new to this and I only watched my dad as a kid with his tanks and his knowledge is foggy because it's been a long time since he has had a tank (basically before I entered highschool so I'm almost 28 now)
 
JLeeM
  • #30
Both are still cycling. It's not considered cycled until ammonia and nitrite are 0 and you have some nitrates.

Do you have fish in either tank, or are you feeding the cycle and ammonia source yourself? I ask because I've been told that you can create a stronger cycle going fishless. Some people on here can create a cycle that can process 6.0 ppm ammonia all the way through to just nitrates in 24 hours or less.
 
finnipper59
  • #31
Both tanks seem to be cycling with the 15 gallon possibly being cycled. The best way to tell is to add ammonia to a reading of 2 or 3ppm. Wait 24 hours and test the ammonia again. If the ammonia dropped, but the nitrites are high and nitrates are low, then the ammonia bacteria are ready, but the nitrites bacteria need more growing time. If both ammonia and nitrites are low and the nitrates are high, the tank is cycled.
My 50 gallon tank readings are as follows
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia: 0.05ppm
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: 0
I'm not sure if its cycled or cycling it's on its 16th day today since I started but I have no nitrates and haven't since yesterday and we tested several times the nitrites are dropping rapidly and the ammonia is almost non existant at this point.

Our 15 gallon is on day 8 its levels are as follows:
Ph: 7.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0.5ppm
Nitrate: 20ppm


Can anyone tell me if either have cycled or are cycling or close to being finished cycling because I'm new to this and I only watched my dad as a kid with his tanks and his knowledge is foggy because it's been a long time since he has had a tank (basically before I entered highschool so I'm almost 28 now)
 
Mom2some
  • #32
How are you getting such precise measurements for ammonia & Nitrite? My test kit (API master) only tests to the 10th decimal place.
Your cycle will be finished when your tank can process the ammonia & Nitrite to 0 in 24 hours. I don’t know what fish you have - if none make sure you are redosing ammonia whenever it gets low (close to 0.25).
 
Lauradesu
  • Thread Starter
  • #33
Both are still cycling. It's not considered cycled until ammonia and nitrite are 0 and you have some nitrates.

Do you have fish in either tank, or are you feeding the cycle and ammonia source yourself? I ask because I've been told that you can create a stronger cycle going fishless. Some people on here can create a cycle that can process 6.0 ppm ammonia all the way through to just nitrates in 24 hours or less.
I have fish in both tanks but don't worry they aren't harmed. The 15 gallon has 6 guppies and a reading of 0 ammonia but it has very little ammonium. Its had 0 ammonia for two days now and the nitrites are dropping and the nitrates are going up. The 50 gallon has 3 ryukins in it and the ammonia Is really low and dropping and the nitrites are dropping and there is absolutely no nitrates and has been Like that for two days.
 
Lauradesu
  • Thread Starter
  • #34
How are you getting such precise measurements for ammonia & Nitrite? My test kit (API master) only tests to the 10th decimal place.
Your cycle will be finished when your tank can process the ammonia & Nitrite to 0 in 24 hours. I don’t know what fish you have - if none make sure you are redosing ammonia whenever it gets low (close to 0.25).
I use the apI fresh water master kit for the ph nitrite and nitrate. I use the seachem (free and total) ammonia and ammonium kit for the ammonia and it's pretty bang on accurate. I called my local fish and aquarium specialist store and told them my readings on both tanks and they said that I'm on the tail end of the cycle for both thanks because every day something or everything drops and even they said if I don't have nitrates it's fine? I mean they run several tanks in there they know what they are doing and you have to know what you're doing to even work there.

Also yes I have fish in both tanks but I'm not over stocked
 
Rtessy
  • #35
I don't know if you saw my previous post, but that testing kit shows a false positive for nitrAtes if you have a lot of nitrItes, like you did when you tested the nitrates. You're likely not yet cycled, and probably didn't have any nitrates to begin with.
 
Lauradesu
  • Thread Starter
  • #36
I HAVE NO NIRTRITES NOW OMG WHAT IS GOING ON. I HAVE THE SMALLEST AMOUNT OF AMMONIA BUT THATS IT
 
Rtessy
  • #37
You said you have three plants, what kind are they? Would any be qualified as "sponge plants" eg anacharis, hornwort, duckweed?
 
Aqua Hands
  • #38
Why are you doing water changes during a cycle?
 
Lauradesu
  • Thread Starter
  • #39
Why are you doing water changes during a cycle?
A lot of people have given me wrong information on my tank I have done water changes but not recently. I didnt do one today or yesterday. But all the other forums I've been told even though I told them my tanks are cycling that I MUST change my water and that toxic ammonia will kill my fish if I don't do it. So basically scare tactics?
 
Aqua Hands
  • #40
A lot of people have given me wrong information on my tank I have done water changes but not recently. I didnt do one today or yesterday. But all the other forums I've been told even though I told them my tanks are cycling that I MUST change my water and that toxic ammonia will kill my fish if I don't do it. So basically scare tactics?
I'm sorry, Let me back up. are you doing a fishless cycle or fish-in cycle?
 

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