Ammonia: 0; Nitrites: 10+ppm and Nitrates: 80ppm

I have been fishless cycling for roughly 2 1/2 weeks now. I'm fairly certain I added too much ammonia during the beginning of cycling and now the Nitrites are way too high, but my Ammonia is 0. I see elevated Nitrates so I believe the bacteria is beginning to form and convert the Nitrites. I'm just wondering if I should be doing 50-75% WC to get the Nitrites under control and speed up the cycling process. Also are my other parameters okay for freshwater fish?

I was dosing with API Stress zyme in beginning to get some bacteria in there, but have been dosing the past 4 days with Seachem Stability. I also use Seachem Prime on all water in tank.

Ammonia: 0
pH: 6-6.5
GH: 180
KH: 0-40
Nitrite: 10+ppm
Nitrate: 80ppm

 

A few things here.

1. API Stress Zyme is not the right bottled bac product for cycling. It's for after the cycle. The right API cycling product is API Quick Start. Not that important since you have now also added Seachem Stability, which do allegedly carry nitrifiers so that is fine. But thought I'd let you know.
2. Measuring nitrate when nitrite does not work, because the way nitrate test kits work is by converting a portion to nitrite, then measuring that as a proxy. So if nitrite is present, the nitrate reading can be falsely higher than it should be.
3. How much ammonia have you dosed in total? Depending on the answer, you may or may not need to do a water change.

 

A few things here.

1. API Stress Zyme is not the right bottled bac product for cycling. It's for after the cycle. The right API cycling product is API Quick Start. Not that important since you have now also added Seachem Stability, which do allegedly carry nitrifiers so that is fine. But thought I'd let you know.
2. Measuring nitrate when nitrite does not work, because the way nitrate test kits work is by converting a portion to nitrite, then measuring that as a proxy. So if nitrite is present, the nitrate reading can be falsely higher than it should be.
3. How much ammonia have you dosed in total? Depending on the answer, you may or may not need to do a water change.

Thats what I thought for the stresszyme, but it was the closest thing I could find at the time that might have "bacteria".
I dosed according to Dr. Tim's ammonia cycling schedule so I only added about 15 drops per day for 3 days. I think this was too much although thats what the bottle said to add. I think my tank is just hitting peak cycling and the cycle only really started when I added the Seachem Stability because I only saw changes after adding that.

So perhaps I don't need to do water changes?

 

I dosed according to Dr. Tim's ammonia cycling schedule so I only added about 15 drops per day for 3 days. I think this was too much although thats what the bottle said to add.

Dr. Tim's method is... decent, but it is not good enough, not really. It presumes too many things. Even his bottled bac product does not really work as intended, which makes it even more frustrating because few people followed his instructions, with his products, and have it work as he says it works.

I think my tank is just hitting peak cycling and the cycle only really started when I added the Seachem Stability because I only saw changes after adding that.

Most likely.

So perhaps I don't need to do water changes?

This depends on how much ammonia you dosed. Sorry, when I was asking about how much ammonia you dosed, I was thinking in terms of concentration. What size is your aquarium?

 

This depends on how much ammonia you dosed. Sorry, when I was asking about how much ammonia you dosed, I was thinking in terms of concentration. What size is your aquarium?

It's a 5 gallon aquarium

 

One of the water/cycle gurus might jump on here soon but sounds like your cycle is on track. If you do a water change it will bring nitrates down but won’t interfere with your cycle. Just keep feeding your tank with your ammonia source and monitor overall parameters. The nitrite will eventually start to come down. Sounds like your at least halfway through the cycle so keep going!

 

Gotcha, so just over 4ppm in total. Yeah should be fine, no need to do a water change at this point. Just wait until nitrite to drop to zero, then re-dose ammonia. ^_^

 

Hi, In a tank that size, I would do a 50% water change to get the nitrites down. Too high of nitrites during a fishless cycle can slow it down, stall it. Especially for such a small tank you don’t need to be processing more than 1.0 ammonia a day, and one fish (assuming this is for a betta?) will not put that much ammonia out.

 

I agree with doing a water change to lower both nitrites and nitrates. I would change out at least 75% of it. Doing the water change may also raise the pH a bit. Quite often the cycling process can cause it to go down. What is the pH of your tap water? If it is well above 7 simply doing water change should keep it up in the tank.

Once you have done your water change go ahead and add enough ammonia to get it up to no more than 1ppm. Run your ammonia test after 24 hours to see if it has dropped back down to zero. If it hasn't give it more time. If it has then you will know this cycle is well on its way to done. At this point in the cycle I recommend you only add 1ppm ammonia every third day. Keep an eye on the nitrites. Once both the ammonia you add and the nitrites are zero within 24 hours of adding ammonia you will know this cycle is done.

 

Hi, In a tank that size, I would do a 50% water change to get the nitrites down. Too high of nitrites during a fishless cycle can slow it down, stall it. Especially for such a small tank you don’t need to be processing more than 1.0 ammonia a day, and one fish (assuming this is for a betta?) will not put that much ammonia out.

It's the reverse. The smaller the tank (for the same number of inhabitants), the higher the concentration of ammonia we'd have to watch out for. I.e. if a betta produces 0.5ppm ammonia a day in a 10 gal, it'll produce 1ppm a day in a 5gal.

But yes, I do agree that one does not really need to go over 1ppm most likely. Even for larger tanks.

Given that op dosed about 4.25ppm ammonia or so, they'd only have 11.5ppm nitrite or so, and that's if there is no nitrite oxidation yet. I am one who's all for not dosing ammonia everyday so that nitrite does not spike (and doing water changes to remove nitrite), but at this stage nitrite should still be within a reasonable range.

 

It's the reverse. The smaller the tank (for the same number of inhabitants), the higher the concentration of ammonia we'd have to watch out for. I.e. if a betta produces 0.5ppm ammonia a day in a 10 gal, it'll produce 1ppm a day in a 5gal.

But yes, I do agree that one does not really need to go over 1ppm most likely. Even for larger tanks.

Given that op dosed about 4.25ppm ammonia or so, they'd only have 11.5ppm nitrite or so, and that's if there is no nitrite oxidation yet. I am one who's all for not dosing ammonia everyday so that nitrite does not spike (and doing water changes to remove nitrite), but at this stage nitrite should still be within a reasonable range.

Yes, I agree on the higher concentration in a small tank of course. The nitrites are way too high though. They need to come down for the cycling process to continue on. Plus 4ppm ammonia is just overkill for this little tank and will take longer to cycle, having to grow that many more nitrifyers to handle that volume of ammonia. The bio-load just won’t be that high.

 

Thanks for all the advice! I think I will wait till tomorrow to test all parameters again. If there are still high nitrites then I'll go ahead and do a water change. Afterwards, I'll also perform an ammonia test to see if it is gone in 24 hours.

I think I was just confused on where I was in the cycling process as what I was trying to dose for 'bacteria' wasn't really cutting it.

 

Yes, I agree on the higher concentration in a small tank of course. The nitrites are way too high though. They need to come down for the cycling process to continue on. Plus 4ppm ammonia is just overkill for this little tank and will take longer to cycle, having to grow that many more nitrifyers to handle that volume of ammonia. The bio-load just won’t be that high.

Yeah all that I do agree with. That's also why imo there's a lot that can be improved with Dr. Tim's methods. A nitrification rate of 2ppm/day is designed for the 'overstocked', very heavily fed cichlid tanks that some people have. For most tanks, 1ppm/day is plenty. To clarify here, the 4.25ppm just came from ALL of the ammonia that op dosed, and I was using that to calculate the maximum amount of nitrite expected just to see if it could be too high or not.

I will say though that the whole idea of nitrite here being too high does not have scientific backing, nor from evidence from aquariums. I know Dr. Tim says 4ppm nitrite is enough to stall the cycle, and that was what I initially believed and followed as well - always kept nitrite low. But I found after reading research that well, no, nitrifiers can generally handle a much higher concentration. I don't often reach a nitrite reading of 10 or more anymore (because even if one doses to 2ppm ammonia, that would only convert to 5.4ppm or so nitrite. 1ppm ammonia only converts to 2.7ppm nitrite), but even when my nitrite reach peaks of 20ppm or more, the cycle did not stall. With that said, I would never suggest letting nitrite reach that high if not necessary.

I do agree though that a water change now would not harm. So for peace of mind, op can definitely do a big water change like you suggested. Even if it does not help, it definitely won't hurt.

Thanks for all the advice! I think I will wait till tomorrow to test all parameters again. If there are still high nitrites then I'll go ahead and do a water change. Afterwards, I'll also perform an ammonia test to see if it is gone in 24 hours.

Sounds like a plan. Make sure you don't dose ammonia if there is still nitrite though.

I think I was just confused on where I was in the cycling process as what I was trying to dose for 'bacteria' wasn't really cutting it.

By the way, what test kit are you using?