Ambitious Scape, Suggestions Welcome

Hey guys. Second scape but it's been years. Been working on a 20 gallon long conceptually for about a month. Started with the idea of an iwagumi, but when I started getting rocks and moving stuff around, I got more inspired by landscapes and stuff like Japanese gardens.

Tank's dry, I need to order plants. But with so much to choose from, and not knowing many aquascaping pitfalls/mistakes from experience, I'm left unconfident at this point. All I really have decided is two things: I think I'm going with Monte Carlo for a foreground carpeting plant, and I have a little corner pocket in the sand, front-left, to put something small either anubias nana petite or cryptocoryne parva up there.

The first 3 pics are viewing angles from seating in the room. Then there's one from the front, from the side, and from above.

It seems tricky not to blow the landscape proportions, which is why I'm stuck. I've got a finnex programmable 24/7, which I know I'll have to dI'm back. I have CO2 to start, but I was hoping once things get established to scale back to as little as possible to reduce the rate of growth, and hopefully a bit of maintenance. I've read monte carlo can work low tech, and I figure since 20 Long has a higher surface area to water volume than a lot of other tanks and because I'll probably only have it on 1/3rd to 1/2 the tank, I might have luck. So optimally the MMC is the plant in the tank with the highest CO2 demands? Idk... Like I said, I'm so far in the woods I feel like I finally got a bit lost and could use a hand.

Additional info: stocking idea is 8+ habrosus corys to play in the sand, a 10-12 cardinal tetra (on the fence with bloodfin tetra cause what seems to be super tight schooling), 3 otocinclus, 1-2 amano shrimp, 1 nerite snail. Oh yeah, I made a cave up front right that's about 5.5"L x 2.5"W x 1.25"H that I'm pretty psyched about. Thinking about a penn plax cascade 500 for filtration, unless someone's got a better idea.

Thanks. Hope you enjoy the pics and future updates.

 

looks really nice so far can't wait to see your plant choices and locations!

 

Looks great! Kind of reminds me of an Amano scape. If you're lost, watch some videos of his work and George Farmer's, they're really good inspiration.

 

It's stunning! TBH, I prefer Cardinals to bloodfins. I've had experience with both, but I just love the colors on the Cardinals.

For plants, I love how big and leafy Amazon swords grow. Also, crypts are always nice.

 

Thanks for the replies.

Did a photoshop of my current idea for plants. Looks kinda goofy cause the hard edges and cookie cutter pastes, but you can get an idea.
Mak, got the idea to put hairgrass in the background, making another layer between carpet and "sky" from Farmer, thanks.
Rainbetta, I think the larger leaves on the swords and crypts would blow the perspective. I did a lot of searching for low growing plants with color, and I had to pass on AR minI cause leaf size is too big for mid/background.

Based on my research, that rotala mexicana goias grows from 2-10cm tall, and I might be able to use it if I can find it. I'll include a couple pictures I found.

 

It seems tricky not to blow the landscape proportions, which is why I'm stuck. I've got a finnex programmable 24/7, which I know I'll have to dI'm back. I have CO2 to start, but I was hoping once things get established to scale back to as little as possible to reduce the rate of growth, and hopefully a bit of maintenance.

Do you have a pressurized Co2 system. As you pointed out - already knowing - the 24/7 on a 20 Long needs to be dimmed quite a bit, but the other trick is providing enough adequate Co2 circulating throughout the entire tank because of it's short height but large footprint. The best result I had with this setup is using an inline Co2 diffuser.

So optimally the MMC is the plant in the tank with the highest CO2 demands?

Maybe. In a tank that is Co2 injected Co2 demand for a single species is negligable, really. So long as Co2 levels are optimal throughout the entire tank it really doesn't matter if it's has very little demands or is the most Co2 demanding species. A carpet plant is generally more demanding as far as Co2, but part of that demand is because it's often the farthest plant away from the light so plants closer to the light are photosynthesizing at a faster rate (in turn having higher demands) and outcompeting carpet plants for light, nutrient and Co2.

Additional info: stocking idea is 8+ habrosus corys to play in the Sand, a 10-12 cardinal tetra (on the fence with bloodfin tetra cause what seems to be super tight schooling), 3 otocinclus, 1-2 amano shrimp, 1 nerite snail. Oh yeah, I made a cave up front right that's about 5.5"L x 2.5"W x 1.25"H that I'm pretty psyched about. Thinking about a penn plax cascade 500 for filtration, unless someone's got a better idea.

I wouldn't worry about stocking until the tank is running, balanced, and stable. Don't think about it, as hard as that may be BUT Corydoras are Anti-Carpet/Anti-substrate slope. All that playing in sand uproots carpet plants when not fully grown in and levels your substrate. Amano shrimp are pretty sensitive, so if you don't feel like you have a strong grasp on balance in an aquascape I'd forget them for now (they are also surprisingly large shrimp) and consider red cherry shrimp. They are great algae eaters and reproduce easily. You can turn 10 into over 100 in a short amount of time so long as the tank is balanced.


I don't care for Penn Plax Cascade and recommend saving money. SunSun canister filters are cheaper, have larger filter capacity, and can be purchased with all filter media included. I've owned Cascade and they all died in less than 2 years. The sunsuns I own are better in every aspect. You can find a SunSun on eBay for $40-$55 that are twice the filter than a Cascade is for $80. I'm sure there are people out there who swear by Penn Plax, but to me they're worthless. If someone gave me a Penn Plax I wouldn't even set it up for fear of the water soaked carpet I'd be shop vaccing later. That's how much little faith I have in Cascade filters.

 

I don't plan to get fish any time soon. But I've already given it thought and put what I thought.

Monte Carlo is on the way. I'm doing a dry start for 4-5 weeks, or however long it takes. Then purchase the rest of the plants, plant them, fill, establish filter. Won't add fish until 0 ammonia...

As for the cories, that's specifically why the sand is nearly flat, and why I've chosen such a tiny species.

If all goes right, the roots of the carpet will keep everything in place.

I do have a full co2 system from my first scape years ago. But as I said, once everything is golden, I'm going to attempt to scale back CO2 to low tech to cut back on maintenance once I no longer need the plants to spread.

I don't want crazy breeding of anything in my tank, that's just me, so I've considered cherries, but don't want to go there.

There's a sunsun labeled for a 20 gallon, but being concerned about adequate flow all the way down and back on the long tank, with big rocks and heavily planted, I don't think it's enough flow. Then their next size up is like 260 gph in the bigger rectangular model, and that seems like waaay too much.

 

Thanks for the replies.

Did a photoshop of my current idea for plants. Looks kinda goofy cause the hard edges and cookie cutter pastes, but you can get an idea.
Mak, got the idea to put hairgrass in the background, making another layer between carpet and "sky" from Farmer, thanks.
Rainbetta, I think the larger leaves on the swords and crypts would blow the perspective. I did a lot of searching for low growing plants with color, and I had to pass on AR minI cause leaf size is too big for mid/background.

Based on my research, that rotala mexicana goias grows from 2-10cm tall, and I might be able to use it if I can find it. I'll include a couple pictures I found.

I do like the Val. Nana variation for a background grassy plant. I think Dwarf Hair Grass would scale better to the look of Iwagumi, but the Val. Nana would be interesting nonetheless.

Rotala Mexicana can be a very, very pretty plant and I love the look of it. I really like that you found a small species to bring color to the design BUT if you have intentions to decrease lighting and Co2 [potentially] than maybe a plant that doesn't need high-light/Co2 injection to look it's best is a better option. I think it could look great when everything is grown in well, but other less-demanding species may be better long-term.

Okay - bucephalandra! I can only think of one Bucephalandra plant that would even (sort of) scale with the layout and design and that is Bucephalandra MinI Coin. It has very small leafs that are a dark green but even this small Buce Plant is going to harm the illusion of Iwagumi. I have this plant and other bucephalandra in the foreground of my 32.1 G aquascape, and I can assure you that none would scale well in IwagumI layouts unless it is a pretty massive tank.
Mosses are hands down the better alternative.

 

I do like the Val. Nana variation for a background grassy plant. I think Dwarf Hair Grass would scale better to the over look of Iwagumi, but the Val. Nana would be interesting nonetheless.

Rotala Mexicana can be a very, very pretty plant and I love the look of it. I really like that you found a small species to bring color to the design BUT if you have intentions to decrease lighting and Co2 [potentially] than maybe a plant that doesn't need high-light/Co2 injection to look it's best is a better option. I think it could look great when everything is grown in well, but other less-demanding species may be better long-term.

Okay - bucephalandra! I can only thing of one Bucephalandra plant that would even (sort of) scale with the layout and design and that is Bucephalandra MinI Coin. It has very small leafs that are a dark green but even this small Buce Plant is going to harm the illusion of Iwagumi.

I was kinda thinking the same thing with the bucephalandra. I did so much thinking on creating layers with the rocks. I guess I need to create harmony with more simplicity in the plants at this point.

As far as the rotala mexicana, do you know an alternative that may be less demanding? I'm just looking for a little contrast even if it's yellow. Short, small leaves, not green - tough niche lol.

 

There's a sunsun labeled for a 20 gallon, but being concerned about adequate flow all the way down and back on the long tank, with big rocks and heavily planted, I don't think it's enough flow. Then their next size up is like 260 gph in the bigger rectangular model, and that seems like waaay too much.

The one rated for a 20G is the 602B and is more suitable for a 10G. The 260GPH will work great, especially if you run an inline heater &/or Inline Co2 reactor or diffuser. Anything inline is going to drop the GPH quite a lot, and the higher GPH will prevent reduced flow and circulation throughout the tank. You can also control the flow with the lever if you feel it's too strong. Buying that larger unit also means if you decide to get a larger tank you may not need to purchase a larger filter as well.

 

The one rated for a 20G is the 602B and is more suitable for a 10G. The 260GPH will work great, especially if you run an inline heater &/or Inline Co2 reactor or diffuser. Anything inline is going to drop the GPH quite a lot, and the higher GPH will prevent reduced flow and circulation throughout the tank. You can also control the flow with the lever if you feel it's too strong. Buying that larger unit also means if you decide to get a larger tank you may not need to purchase a larger filter as well.

I'm certainly not against saving money. I just thought maybe it wasn't the tool for my job, unfortunate as that might have been. Thanks for the tip.

 

As far as the rotala mexicana, do you know an alternative that may be less demanding? I'm just looking for a little contrast even if it's yellow. Short, small leaves, not green - tough niche lol.

Honestly, I keep drawing a blank as far as suitable alternative so I took another look at your layout. If it were me [I think] I would try the Rotala Mexicana just because where you indicated placement it should be directly under the lighting, so even if you attempt to scale back on lighting it will have the most ideal placement in the layout for its needs. Worst case it just isn't as colorful as it ought to be, but still brings a different color and leaf structure to the layout. Best case, it surprises both of us and retains much of it's color.

To help give the Rotala and carpet some help I'd use micro nutrient root tabs, or osmocote plus root tabs. I say this just because it looks like you have a gravel-like substrate such as Eco-Complete, which is fine, but contains very minimal nutrients. Providing a nutritional substrate helps in IwagumI helps prevent algae outbreaks across the hardscape by reducing nutrients in the water column. Some people will point out excess nutrients in the water does not cause algae according to Tom Barr and his findings, but those people tend to forget to read much of the fine print, and disregard algae growth in a new tank vs algae growth in a mature tank.

 

Root tabs and monte carlo in.

Probably could have gotten away with 1 tissue cup instead of 2. Now I know.

Still need to get hairgrass for the background, which I might as well plant immersed, and pick out one or two mosses, and the r. mexicana (left a spot for it a little more to the foreground than originally drawn).

 

I think I found suitable alternatives to the rotala mexicana goais. Demands are similar afaik.

Pic 1: rotala mexicana goais again for comparison
Pics 2 & 3: cabomba belem red (supposedly new to the hobby)
Pics 4 & 5: Echinodorus tenellus red (there seems to be some confusion on the name and maybe a reclassification with a species that doesn't turn red, but it's out there)

Thoughts? I think the runners on the E. Tenellus look too strong to easily control. The cabomba looks interesting and the finer leaves/stem might work better as a texture, but I'm not sure if I still prefer the mexicana's color to it.

 

Everything's coming along on the dry start.

Rethinking filtration, I found an oase canister with an internal heater that does 160 gph (supposedly with heater installed). I really don't think I'll be upgrading in the future, mainly because this was the largest footprint I could get in the room.

As per my research, I'm not looking to cram the filter full of filter media (ceramic, biohome, others that the tiny cracks supposedly create anaerobic pockets that eat nitrates) that might pull down the flow spec, since plants growing well will reduce nitrates naturally. And as long as I get good flow in the tank, there's tons of surface area in there for bio. So I'll most likely run course, medium, fine, then do bio foam on top (which afaik has more surface area than plastic bio balls).

 

Everything's coming along on the dry start.

Rethinking filtration, I found an oase canister with an internal heater that does 160 gph (supposedly with heater installed). I really don't think I'll be upgrading in the future, mainly because this was the largest footprint I could get in the room.

As per my research, I'm not looking to cram the filter full of filter media (ceramic, biohome, others that the tiny cracks supposedly create anaerobic pockets that eat nitrates) that might pull down the flow spec, since plants growing well will reduce nitrates naturally. And as long as I get good flow in the tank, there's tons of surface area in there for bio. So I'll most likely run course, medium, fine, then do bio foam on top (which afaik has more surface area than plastic bio balls).

I don't have any experience with the above filter, but hey, any means to remove a heater from the tank is an automatic plus for Aquascaping.

If I remember correctly, there's no way a typical filter under typical running conditions can culture the correct bacteria for nitrate removal, so this really shouldn't be a concern at all. The process is centralized around ideal conditions related to flow and bio-media. I've seen reactors for this purpose on salt water tanks, but in a planted tank this really wouldn't be necessary or ideal. As you pointed out the plants intake nitrates and remove them. I know you didn't ask, but just thought I'd point that out.

Just for comparison purposes I will run something like this, but there's no wrong way so long as there's adequate surface area for beneficial bacteria to grown on -

Top basket: Purigen (removes nitrates and polishes water - placed last) & filter floss

Middle Basket: Ceramic biological media & filter floss

Lowest basket (or where water travels through first): course sponge on bottom, then fine sponge, then very fine sponge

This order -

*Water exits
-Purigen
-filter floss
-biological media
-filter floss
-very fine sponge
-fine sponge
-course sponge
**water enters

Edit: I'm happy to see that you're doing the leg work and researching in depth the more complex and intriguing aspects of Aquascaping. Most people only scratch the surface without ever digging deep enough to find some of these details I've seen you mention. Can't wait to see it!

 

This is a very good resource. I follow a lot of people and hashtags on Instagram too. It's fine that you planted so densely at first, it'll prevent an algae bloom.

 

Still coming along. I'm getting a bit of algae in the sand.

I figure I could apply excel or peroxide by dropper or q-tip, then flush it out toward the front after a few minutes, while draining with an air line. Or I might just save it til right before I'm filling up so I can flush it better with big water changes.

Which should be soon. I've got DHG (parvula/pusilla) and the minI dwarf hair grass (acicularisa mini) coming this week. The regular is for along the back, and the minI is for texture near rocks in front.