Altum is dieing. Please help

Tom
  • #1
My angel, Altum, is dieing and he started to get this way when I started to treat Angel(larger angelfish) for finrot, Altum seemed to be resonding negativly to it. Can you please help me and give me advise on how to fix it. I don't really think he is going to survive the night.
Tom
 
Isabella
  • #2
Sorry to hear this As always, can we have your Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate readings? What's the temperature of the tank? What size is the tank and how many, and what kinds, of fish are in it?

Did Altum show any signs of Finrot before or after Angel got Finrot? I don't know if Finrot is very contagious, but if it is not and if Altum was healthy, maybe its body is reacting negatively to the medication? I know sometimes you can't get around a disease without a medication, but after all ... the medications are chemicals too. So maybe it's sick because of the medication? Just a guess of course.
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
The water is great; 0 NH3, 0 NO2, <10 NO3, 7.0 pH. The temp is about 87F(just so they don't get ich and they seem to love it. There are the two angels, 5 lemon tetras, 1 dwarf neon rainbowfish, 1 dwarf loach(planning on getting more). It didn't start out as finrot, some of the dead rainbowfish had been nipping at it and it started to heal and then got really bad. The tank is my 37 gallon. Sorry I didn't mention this stuff before.
Tom
 
Isabella
  • #4
Well, your water seems fine. Whenever a fish has its fins hurt or rotting, you should definitely keep your water very clean until everything heals. The temperature should also be raised during sickness but ... I'm not sure if 87F isn't too high actually. I don't know, so I must ask someone, but I think I'd be afraid to keep my Angels in a temp. of 87F. Did Altum appear sick before you've raised the temp. to 87F? Maybe it's bothered by a suddenly high temperature? My Angels have never been in a temp. higher than 82F but I hear Angels like warm water. I consider 80-82F warm for Angels. I try to maintain my Angelfish tanks at 78-80F.

When you perform water changes while your tank water is at 87F, is the new water you're adding to your tank also at 87F or so? If it's much lower than 87F, the fish may be getting temperature shocks from pouring much cooler water into a tank with significantly warm water (it's probably hot for the fish).

I really don't know what to tell you on treatment since you've said it's Finrot and that you're specifically treating for Finrot. Also,your ammonia and nitrite are at 0. Your nitrate is not high, although when fish are sick it's best to have it as low as possible. I have to ask some other moderator if a temp. of 87F is OK. Will get back to you.
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
Ok, well I turned on the lights this morning and Altum had passed away during the night. :'( I usually keep the water at about 82-85F and I make sure the water when added is as close as possible even with a thermometer. And I don't raise the temp suddenly, I gradually raise it over a period of a day. I also do the same when lowering the temp.
Tom
 
COBettaCouple
  • #6
:'( we're sorry to hear that Altum passed away..
 
armadillo
  • #7
That's awful, Tom. I'm sorry to hear this.

Do you think that he may have had a bad reaction to the meds or that he was weaker than Angel and got contaminated by Angels' disease but that it got to him really quickly and really strongly?
 
Sabi
  • #8
Sorry to hear of Altum, Tom. :'(
I've found they sometimes they get more sick when you treat them, unfortunately.
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #9
That's awful, Tom. I'm sorry to hear this.

Do you think that he may have had a bad reaction to the meds or that he was weaker than Angel and got contaminated by Angels' disease but that it got to him really quickly and really strongly?
I just think it is because he was still pretty small for an angelfish. I have also treated Angel for 'finrot' a few times when I had my zebra danios and serpae tetras with her. I am going to the store tomorrow to see if there are any more with the same coloration so they don't get really harrassed by Angel. But it is still really sad.
Tom
 
Isabella
  • #10
I am very sorry for your loss as well I wonder if the medication was the reason Altum died?

As FLBettaCouple remarked, 87F may not hurt Angelfish if it's only for a short period of time and if aeration is increased while the temp. is high and while you're medicating. So this, naturally, leads me to ask: How long was the temp. at 87F? And: Was the water aerated?
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
I am very sorry for your loss as well I wonder if the medication was the reason Altum died?

As FLBettaCouple remarked, 87F may not hurt Angelfish if it's only for a short period of time and if aeration is increased while the temp. is high and while you're medicating. So this, naturally, leads me to ask: How long was the temp. at 87F? And: Was the water aerated?
The temp is usually that high to reduce the risk of ich. I have a really strong filter and also an aerator(dinosaur) and a air stone in the opposite corner. So I don't think it is a lack of O2.
Tom
 
COBettaCouple
  • #12
82-85, depending on fish tolerance is the typical ich treatment temp.
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
82-85, depending on fish tolerance is the typical ich treatment temp.
But all my fish were used to it by that time. Altum had been in there for a few months by now.
Tom
 
COBettaCouple
  • #14
they shouldn't have any chance of catching ich with the tank always at least 82F.
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #15
I think that they are more active the higher the temp in the tank. I love to see all that activity so I leave it there.
Tom
 
COBettaCouple
  • #16
It's also supposed to 'age' them more from the research i've read on how fish age in relation to water temp.
 
armadillo
  • #17
As far as livebearers are concerned, higher temp = higher temperaments. I notice more fights with higher temps.

Didn't know about the ageing.
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #18
It's also supposed to 'age' them more from the research i've read on how fish age in relation to water temp.
Really? Where did you read that? I don't remember ever hearing that.
Tom
 
Isabella
  • #19
Yes, higher temperature makes fish age faster too. It increases their metabolism as well. I keep my Angelfish tanks at 78-80F at all times.
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #20
Yes, higher temperature makes fish age faster too. It increases their metabolism as well. I keep my Angelfish tanks at 78-80F at all times.
I knew they increased the metabolism of the fish but I had no idea that it increased the age of the fish too. I will decrease it to about 80F.
Tom
 
COBettaCouple
  • #21
yea, we keep our bettas around there for the same reasons. too cold and you get diseases, too warm and you shorten lifespan.. what choices, huh?! :-[
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #22
yea, we keep our bettas around there for the same reasons. too cold and you get diseases, too warm and you shorten lifespan.. what choices, huh?! :-[
So what is the perfect temp then?
Tom
 
Isabella
  • #23
yea, we keep our bettas around there for the same reasons. too cold and you get diseases, too warm and you shorten lifespan.. what choices, huh?!

LOL!

So what is the perfect temp then?

Tom, around 150F ... Just kidding, of course!
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #24
yea, we keep our bettas around there for the same reasons. too cold and you get diseases, too warm and you shorten lifespan.. what choices, huh?!

LOL!

So what is the perfect temp then?

Tom, around 150F ... Just kidding, of course!
OK, I will go and set that right now. lol
Tom
 
Butterfly
  • #25
Here is a link that verifies that higher temps do shorten th life span of angelfish. the man who owns this company lectures at different aquarium clubs and has lectured at one I belong to. I trust his judgement I guess is what I'm trying to say

Carol
 
COBettaCouple
  • #26
we just tried that 150F with our fish just now.. they danced a lot, but now they're sleeping. I guess they got tired out. :;a
 
Butterfly
  • #27
Nothing so appealing as sleeping fish
Carol
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #28
Here is a link that verifies that higher temps do shorten th life span of angelfish. the man who owns this company lectures at different aquarium clubs and has lectured at one I belong to. I trust his judgement I guess is what I'm trying to say

Carol
Thanks, I will turn down the temp to about 80F.
Tom
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #29
we just tried that 150F with our fish just now.. they danced a lot, but now they're sleeping. I guess they got tired out. :;a
Dave, Dave, Dave. Are they sleeping with the fishes? lol Are you going to have some food tonight? lol
Tom
 
COBettaCouple
  • #30
we just tried that 150F with our fish just now.. they danced a lot, but now they're sleeping. I guess they got tired out.
Dave, Dave, Dave. Are they sleeping with the fishes? lol Are you going to have some food tonight? lol
Tom

no, they're each in their own tank. they ate before they danced so I'll feed them when they wake up tommorrow.. :;a2
 
Tom
  • Thread Starter
  • #31
we just tried that 150F with our fish just now.. they danced a lot, but now they're sleeping. I guess they got tired out.
Dave, Dave, Dave. Are they sleeping with the fishes? lol Are you going to have some food tonight? lol
Tom

no, they're each in their own tank. they ate before they danced so I'll feed them when they wake up tommorrow.. :;a2
Wow.
Tom
 
Isabella
  • #32
Hehehe, I'm glad that 150F worked

Carol, great article
 
Butterfly
  • #33
Hehehe, I'm glad that 150F worked

Carol, great article
Thanks Isabella, I love his angels too
Carol
 

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