All fish and inverts deteriorating

Hello,
I have a 20gal (75liter) tank with the following stock and parameters (current at the time of this post):

Fish and Inverts
-5 Adult Platies (Green Lantern)
-5 Adult Peppered Corydoras
-1 Juvenile Female Betta
-10ish Red Cherry Shrimp

Plants
-Moderately planted with crypts

Water Parameters (using master kit)
-pH 7.8
-Ammonia 0
-Nitrite 0
-Nitrate about 15ppm
-Temperature 77.5 to 78.0 F (25.2-25.5 Celsius)

Substrate
Eco Complete

Added Chemicals
API CO2 Booster (2ml/day)
Aqueon Water Conditioner (as directed on bottle for water changes using tap water)

In the last day or so my entire stock began showing signs of distress and I am unsure of the cause. I've had the tank for well over a month now and it is fully cycled.

Specific signs of distress are: All of the Corydoras are lethargic and spend most of their time sitting motionless at the bottom of the tank in the rear corners. Two of the platies are doing the same, and the remaining three platies appear to be gasping for air at the surface. Two shrimp have died and a couple of the survivors are behaving dopey in that they seem to be swimming randomly around the tank, running into things and losing control when swimming in front of the current from my HOB filter. Another couple shrimp sit motionless at the bottom of the tank and the remaining six or so are hiding under some driftwood (as usual), but are generally less active than normal. The juvenile betta appears totally normal.

There are two important events of which are important to note. First, I have had terrible luck with defective heaters for the tank and this has resulted in 4 - 5 degree (F) fluctuations in the tank's temperature over the past 4 days. I think that the heater I have at the moment is working as it should because it keeps the temperature between 77.5 and 78.0 degrees (F). Second, noting that the Corydoras are often out-competed by the Platies for pellets and thawed brineshrimp, I bought some algae wafers ("Tetra Veggies") which I believed would last long enough for them to eat. About 48 hours ago I added a single wafer in addition to the normal amount of pellets and, as I hoped, the Corydoras went to town on the wafer while everyone else was going for the pellets. After ~30 minutes, I reached in to remove the remaining chunk of the wafer and it completely disintegrated between my fingers. Yes, I should have vacuumed the particles up, but I didn't.

The tank is well aerated, I don't inject CO2, and none of the fish are showing external signs of infection or trauma. I am inclined to think that this is a water quality issue and am about to do a 50% water change once the water is done heating up. However, I am concerned about discovering the cause of this so I can avoid it in the future. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

EDIT: OK, all but the betta are deteriorating. Sorry for embellishing the title .

 

Quick Update: I just noticed that one of the Corydoras is disoriented as it swam across the tank. Specifically, he appears to be tilting sideways in a way that is very uncharacteristic of their normal scurrying.

 

Welcome to Fishlore.

Is your tank fully cycled? What kind of filter you are using? Do you have a bubbler? Let's talk water changes. How large? How often? Is there any way you could get Prime? Any stringy white Poop?

 

1. The tank is fully cycled.

2. Filter is just a typical mesh filter with carbon for a HOB filter system. I recently (2 or 3 days ago) took the filter out to just rinse it (with tank water), but it was otherwise well established.

3. No bubbler, but my assumption was that the HOB filter was aerating the tank well. The last major addition to the tank was the Corydoras about a month ago and there hasn't been any sign of O2 deprivation since then.

4/5. Water changes are 10% per week

6. Sure, I can get it. What will Prime do that the Aqueon treatment doesn't already do?

7. Yes, the Platies have mighty poos that often dangle white stringy stuff. I've never thought that was significant. What does it mean?

 

Weekly 10 % water changes are not enough. Your fish are swimming in their p$p (pee and poop).



I was actually asking what kind is your HOB, in order to figure out if it is strong enough for your gang.

Prime is considered top of the line conditioner. Not only it deals with chlorine/chloramine, ammonia and nitrites, but it also helps with a slime coat. It is a conditioner of choice of many serious fishkeepers here.

White poop usually means parasites. You need to deal with that ASAP.

Good luck and again Welcome to Fishlore.

 

In all honesty, 10% was the target for water changes and I have been doing bigger changes while the tank settles. This would have been the first week in which only 10% of the water was changed, but then my tank crashed and I ended up doing 20% yesterday and 50% today. Although I'm easily convinced to ramp up my water changes, I find it hard to believe that my water-change schedule was the cause of such a fast deterioration of all of my fish without something else also going wrong (e.g., overfeeding).

The filter is an Aqueon QuietFlow 30 (@ 200gph) and it definitely churns up a current if I don't have the output partially blocked. At the moment, all parts of the tank get a calm current.

As far as parasites go, I'll need to do my homework about identifying the type and treating them, but it still seems like an unlikely cause for all the fish to deteriorate simultaneously and so quickly. In just the few hours since posting this thread all of the corydoras have become disoriented and one of them is on his side on the bottom of the tank.

I'm hopeful for more ideas on this because I'm still unsure what I should change in the future to avoid this.

 

When in doubt I immediately do a massive water change, then hit the Google button.

The fact that it is happening to all of them at once would let me to believe that it is water and parasites, but you know better, since you are there observing your fish.

If you will decided to use Meds, unless you are going to use a QT, try to find something that will not interfere with your BB, kill your plants and color your tank blue or green.

Good luck.

 

Idadd filtration anyway, sick fish may benefit from extra air.
also the fact that the betta is fine seems odd, could be because she has a labyrinth organ for extra oxygen.

I agree with the extra water changes also.

 

Sounds good, thanks a lot for the help! I'll definitely do what I can about parasites, even if it does mean harming the plants or discoloring the water. I got into this for the plants scenes, but I feel obligated to the wellbeing of the fish first and foremost.

Thanks again!

 

Couple last things: What does "BB" stand for (Jomolager) and what do you mean by adding filtration (Pleco)? With regard to filtration, do you mean I ought to add an additional filtration system?

 

Please forgive me. BB stands for Beneficial Bacteria. You get BB ad your tank cycles. Tank with strong BB is considered established tank.

Loosing BB means you have to cycle your tank again which is not always easy or fun, and could be hard on fish. When your fish has been sick it is very vulnerable and weak.

It is usually better not to disrupt the cycle.

 

If you can lower the temperature a few degrees that might help everyone. I believe peppered cories like lower temps than 77-78 Coradee

The higher temps and fluctuations might be a factor in the lethargy/gasping since higher temps = lower oxygen levels.

I wouldn't immediately jump to parasites personally. What genders are your platies?

You also may consider fasting them for a day, then feeding a couple de-shelled (thawed) frozen peas with the skin removed, chopped or mashed up into bite sized pieces if you suspect bloat caused by overfeeding.

 

If you can lower the temperature a few degrees that might help everyone. I believe peppered cories like lower temps than 77-78 @Coradee

The higher temps and fluctuations might be a factor in the lethargy/gasping since higher temps = lower oxygen levels.

I wouldn't immediately jump to parasites personally. What genders are your platies?

You also may consider fasting them for a day, then feeding a couple de-shelled (thawed) frozen peas with the skin removed, chopped or mashed up into bite sized pieces if you suspect bloat caused by overfeeding.

Bijou is right peppered corys prefer much cooler temperature, 72/3 would be better for them so the high temp could be a factor in their lethargy.
Corys also aren't algae eaters, although they will eat algae wafers if there's nothing else on offer but they get little nutrition from them.
They tend to be more active at night so I would try feeding them after lights out, you could also try crushing their pellets.

 

Hello,

Please complete your Aquarium Profile Information. To access the Profile, click on Forum Actions in the bar close to the top of the screen. In the drop down box, click on Edit Profile. Be sure to hit SAVE when you are done.

This Information will aid others with their responses.

Thanks!

Ken

 

Couple last things: What does "BB" stand for (Jomolager) and what do you mean by adding filtration (Pleco)? With regard to filtration, do you mean I ought to add an additional filtration system?

I guess I meanmore like an airstone then a whole new filter.

 

I completed the aquarium profile, so you can check out the details. We're talking about the first tank in this thread. Please also note that I was mistaken when saying that I had 5 spotted corys. After some homework I realized that I incorrectly informed that (false?) juliI corys are not a subtype of spotted cory. To clarify, it looks like I have two spotted corys and three (false?) juliI corys.

I am starting to think that perhaps the parasite hypothesis is a reasonable one to tackle first. This is because all of the affected fish have previously shown some small degree of flashing for some time and the frequency increased in tandem with the accidental overfeeding (sorry for not noting that, it slipped my mind and wasn't immediately apparent).

Here is my hypothesis, let me know what yall think: The buggers have had gill flukes for a while, but the severity of the infection was under control while the tank was stable and I was not sensitive to the significance of their flashing. When I overfed the tank a couple days ago, there was a minor ammonia spike (plus the other nastiness associated with overfeeding) that resolved itself and evaded detection because I did not test the tank until ~18 hours later. Combined with the fluctuating temperatures, the stress level of the fish reached a point that allowed the gill flukes to flourish. Insofar as is accurate in saying that labyrinthe fish are less susceptible to gill flukes, this also explains why the betta appears unaffected. Furthermore, it looks like most of the fish are doing better after the water change, but they are still somewhat lethargic and still flashing. It looks like one of the juliI corys won't make it though; she is still breathing but swimming like she's on crack.

Because it does not appear that the betta is immune to gill flukes, I immediately removed her from the tank and she is in a 1.5 gal (heated) vase. My current plan is to put the rest into a bucket for treatment and I'll go to the LFS and get some sort of chems (suggestions?) to treat them and the betta. With my current set of equipment, this will leave the original tank unheated and with only cherry shrimp in it.

Does this all make sense? If so, how should I treat the flukes?

Do I need to worry about the temp drop in the tank harming the RCS?

Do I need to worry about the lack of fish in the tank starving the beneficial bacteria?

Will the fish be re-infected if I don't do something to the original tank? Or, is it sufficient to treat all the fish?

EDIT: Note that have a second tank with 7 neon tetras in it. Everyone in there looks perfectly healthy. If I were to do a big water change (~90%) after removing the infected fish, get another heater, and add a couple tetras to the 20 gal, will they be at risk for gill fluke infection?

 

If it is a gill parasite, then it could be a breathing problem too. The betta may be infected and, I don't know using her labyrinth organ to make up the difference?
keep checkingher to be sure.

I would say they could be infected again if the tank is not treated, thoughI'm surethereis a specific incubation time that would cause the flukes to die On Their own without a host.

 

Right, I intend to treat the betta as well, if only because of the possibility that she is a carrier that might otherwise be unaffected.

 

I would leave everyone in the tank and treat them there personally, I would worry about the risk of them being infected again if I didn't treat the tank as well. And yes, if you take all the fish out of the tank to medicate the bb will die off in there. Lowering the temperature still might help your cories, because even the false juliis would like it a little cooler, I think 78 is at their high end.

 

What Meds are you considering to use?