All fine and now multiple problems. Help please!

50 gallon (250 litre) tank: 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 10 Nitrate, 7.8 PH

3 month old tank. I wanted to be careful so I cycled it for about 2 months without any fish and used pure ammonia and filter media from another tank to get it to cycle down from 8 ammonia to zero (I put in quite a bit of ammonia to build up the bateria to be able to handle lots of ammonia). I then put in 6 bloodfin tetras, 2 zebra loach, 1 pleco and 6 black neons. It was working very well. Ammonia and nitrite didn't move from zero for a whole month. Did 10% water changes 1-2 times a week to keep Nitrate between 10-20. Fish really healthy and lively, no problems. So feeling confident 6 weeks later decided to get some more fish and all kinds of problems have come up.
We decided to get 4 guppies (metallic blue fin), 4 red platies and 4 black velvet angels to brigthen the place up a bit.

The person in the shop told us to add some salt. We thought he said 15 tablespoons but he says that he said 15 teaspoons! The back of the packet (acqualibrium salt by interpet) said that the whole box treated 260 litres and this seemed to equate to 15 tablespoons. And so we put it all in (together with 2 caps of white spot treatment as a precaution - I can't put in 5 caps of white spot because of the loach who are sensitive to it)....

Within a day 1 angelfish died. Then the next day another. Then the next day black neons started going brown, dying (with fins, tails falling off). I thought the angelfish dying might have been stress from the move (I had read they are sensitive to this) but as soon as the black neons started to die I phoned the pet shop. They told me it was the salt and to do a 50% water change so I did this a couple of days ago. A couple of the black neons that were ill (bits falling off them - yuk) passed away but no-one else seemed to be getting worse.

I went back to the shop yesterday to do a test on the tank water for salt and they said that there was no salt any more. I have 2 black neons left who are struggling on. One is jut about ok but the other isn't feeding, tail is dropping below body and constantly gulping at the surface.

To make up for the 6 loses we bought 6 green cobra guppies to and put 2 caps of white spot treatment in again as a precaution.

I wake up this morning and one of the platies is dead. He (or she) had been a bit quiet and shy but hadn't really shown any physcial signs of disease. Now the other platy has got a cloudy eye and a tiny amount of white at the base of his top fin. He (or she) is getting a bit picked on now by one of the other platies and so I don't know whether the other platy dying has mixed up the male/female ratio or whether he/she is detecting the other one could be a bit ill. When they were 4 they all got on fine and hung out together.

I have also got a green guppy on the surface that is just wiggling its tail as if its swimming but going nowhere. It's on the surface the whole time. So my questions are:-

1) Was the salt likely to be the cause of death of the 2 angels and 4 black neons

2) Do I dare add some salt back in because the pet shop says the levels are zero (which I can't understand as it was only a 50% waterchange of a tank that contained 15 tablespoons of salt) and I have guppies and platies which need it? The salt may help stop the white stuff on the platy as well? However I am worried if I add salt it could finish off the black neon that is gulping at the surfance? If I do add salt how much do you recommend?

3) Should I take out the green guppy who is swimming nowhere at the surface and put him in a hospital bucket? Perhaps with some salt and and some treatment?

4) Is there anything I have said that makes you think I need to add another type of treatment to the tank?

Sorry for all the questions but all kinds of problems have broken loose in my garden of eden and I need to get it back on track! Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

My advice. Stop all of this treatment.

If the fish don't have white spot, then there's no point treating. It causes uneccesary stress on the fish. Also, all of that salt isn't going to do your tank any good at all, I don't see the relevance of adding all of the salt? It isn't required.

 

HI Chalieboy, Welcome to Fishlore! Sorry to hear about the loss of your fish. I'd be fairly certain that all the problems you are currently experiencing have stemmed from the salt you added to the tank, and maybe from the other medication too. I personally do not believe in adding any sort of chemicals to a tank unless there is a specific situation that calls for it, and I'd certainly never add salt to a freshwater tank. I'd leave things as they are if I were you, and perhaps do an additional 30% waterchange. The best way to help your tank recover will be pristine water condtions. I'd also recommend purchasing a test kit if you don't already have one, so that you can keep an eye on your water parameters.

 

welcome to fishlore! GREAT advice from others good luck!

 

Thanks guys for your quick replies. It's given me a bit more reassurance that I haven't got a massive outbreak of some deadly disease!

We were told that adding salt (albeit a smaller amount than we actually put in) helps the platies and the guppies. Perhaps it causes more damage to the existing fish than the benefit it brings.

The white spot treatment was again on the advice of the shop as a precautionary measure. Again perhaps it's causing more harm than good.

I might get another female platy to calm down the dominant male and just monitor the situation with the black neon and guppy that are hanging out at the surface. Eveyone else seems happy so hopefully the tank isn't quite a bad as I have been fearing.

 

HI to FishLore!

From what I see 15 fish were added initially. When we add fish the tank has to have time to build beneficial bacteria to handle the bioload(even though it was cycled already) of the fish added so adding fish a few at a time allows the tank to do this. Adding many fish can overwhelm the BB and may take quite sometime to build to handle this bioload.
There is a real controversy over adding salt to freshwater tanks. It is an old time remedy for illness but there are better and gentler ways to treat illness now. Most LFS will sell the new hobbyist anything they can get them to buy and salt is one of those things.
Freshwater fish do not need salt in their water and as you see some don't tolerate it at all.
Using meds is stressful for fish even when their sick so adding meds when their not isn't necessary.
1) The salt as well as adding too many fish too fast are most likely the cause of your fish deaths
2) I would not add any more salt to the tank but would do several small partial water changes to get rid of any that might still be in the tank.
3) If your guppy can't take care of him self by all means put him in a hospital situation but it will need to be heated and filtered. If that's not available leave him in his own tank. Good clean water will be better for all of your fish than more meds at this point.
4) everything you have said indicates to me that all your fish need are some frequent clean water changes for a few weeks until the bacteria catches up to the bioload
Do you have a water test kit? What kind is it. the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals freshwater master (liquid) kit is excellent and reliable.
I wouldn't add any more fish until the tank has had a time to addjust.
sorry for the book
Again
Carol

 

You could possibly relocate the Guppy and Neon to a hospital tank, but it doesn't sound like a disease of any sort, so I'd probably just leave them where they are and keep an eye on them. Personally I wouldn't add anymore fish until you're sure the current situation has settled down, and the tank is fully healthy again. You're right about the salt, some people say that it benifits certain species of fish such as Livebearers, but it generally does more harm to other species than it benifits the Livebearers. I've bred show-quality Guppies for years, and have never used any salt.

 

well you are trying to achieve a brackish tank I suppose because platys and mollies are brackish correct =P from what I know, angels aren't brackish

 

mollies and platys do NOT need salt to survive....most that we get in our LFS, have never seen salt....they do just fine as Freshwater fish

 

Thanks again. Yes I have a water testing kit it's made by Mars Fishcare North America inc (I threw away the box so I don't know it's exact name) It tests Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and PH (both normal and high range). I test the water most days and every day when new fish are added. I was so paranoid about it I even have an excel spreadsheet with graphs which shows the progress during the cycling in particuarl!The ammonia and nitrite don't ever move from zero even when the new fish were added and so perhaps the stress of new fish has more of any effect than the ammonia? Having said that they all got on fine when they were added. They all seem very docile (macho red platy aside)

I was also sold some "special blend" by "Microbe -lift" which is bacteria which apparently helps to keep the nitrate levels down. I have put a capful in about 3 times over about 6 weeks. I might stop doing this as well in the spirit of "keeping it natural and clean".

 

While I have got so many wise heads helping I was thinking of doing the extra 30% water change as advised above but as I have already done a 50% one recently could there be a danger that the clorine in the new tap water could kill the ammonia covnerting bacteria? I put half a capful of Easyneo in the 12l bucket when I add the new water but I do worry that it might take a bit of time to reduce the effect of the chlorine and in the meantime the ammonia eating bacteria might be hurt by it. I might in the future leave the easyneo in the new water in the bucket for an hour or two before adding to the tank?

 

Welcome to FL chalieboy!
I agree with the others, stop the treatments, they are likely doing more harm than good.

Adding aquarium salt replicates marinade conditions more than marine conditions. And you really don't have any real brackish fish in there anyhow. It's been said for ages that 'platys and mollys and guppys are found in brackish water so they must like a little salt, right?' I disagree. They have a wide range of tolerance, they are also found in completely freshwater environments, and keeping your salinity in check via hydrometer is an unneeded pain, not to mention any scaleless fish in the tank are going to suffer.

I would get the salt out completely by doing 50% water changes daily for the next several days.

One important part of determining an issue is by going back to square one and figuring out what is causing your issues.

Remember that fresh treated water in the form of a water change is one of the best meds you can give them, and with proper routine water changes you really don't need any special nitrate reducer et al.

Take care!

 

While I have got so many wise heads helping I was thinking of doing the extra 30% water change as advised above but as I have already done a 50% one recently could there be a danger that the clorine in the new tap water could kill the ammonia covnerting bacteria? I put half a capful of Easyneo in the 12l bucket when I add the new water but I do worry that it might take a bit of time to reduce the effect of the chlorine and in the meantime the ammonia eating bacteria might be hurt by it. I might in the future leave the easyneo in the new water in the bucket for an hour or two before adding to the tank?

I wouldn't be too worried about it, as long as you put some sort of chlorine treatment in there it should be ok. People that use python waterchangers put water in the tanks directly from the sink or bathtub, so they put the water treatment in the tank while filling it.

 

While I have got so many wise heads helping I was thinking of doing the extra 30% water change as advised above but as I have already done a 50% one recently could there be a danger that the clorine in the new tap water could kill the ammonia covnerting bacteria? I put half a capful of Easyneo in the 12l bucket when I add the new water but I do worry that it might take a bit of time to reduce the effect of the chlorine and in the meantime the ammonia eating bacteria might be hurt by it. I might in the future leave the easyneo in the new water in the bucket for an hour or two before adding to the tank?

I'm not familiar with that water treatment so I can't say how fast it works but most work immediately. If you can get it Prime is an excellet all around dechlorinator and works immediately.
Carol