Algae In Co2 Tank

DanniD

Member
HI all,

I just set up a pressurized CO2 system in my 20 gallon tank a few days ago! As expected, things will get harder before they get easier but it's always exciting.

Just today I've noticed a nice algae bloom. The culprits: black beard and green spot algae. Call me naive but I didn't expect it :/

This tank has been around for a few months

Does anyone have any idea on what might be causing this or how to help?

Tank information:
Size & stocking: 20 gallon tank, stocked with 6 choco gouramis, 2 german gold rams, 4 otocinclus
Params: Ph 6.4, 80F, Nitrates = ? (they were between 0-5ppm before switching ferts)
Water Changes: 15% 2x/week but moving to 20% 2x/week
Filter: HOB filled with bio rocks and filter sponges (seems to have low surface agitation though)
CO2: ~2 bubbles per second (on/off 1 hour before lights come on/off)
Lighting: Finnex Planted + 24/7 (24 watts) on for 12 hours a day
Ferts: Thrive +, 1 pump with each water change (I know more is recommended for high-tech but I worry since I have nitrate sensitive fish)
Plants: heavily planted with water wisteria, ludwigia, crypts, swords, java fern, christmas moss, cyperus helferi, etc...

Any advice is very welcome! Thank you!
 

tommywantfishy

Member
Ddelpinal said:
HI all,

I just set up a pressurized CO2 system in my 20 gallon tank a few days ago! As expected, things will get harder before they get easier but it's always exciting.

Just today I've noticed a nice algae bloom. The culprits: black beard and green spot algae. Call me naive but I didn't expect it :/

This tank has been around for a few months

Does anyone have any idea on what might be causing this or how to help?

Tank information:
Size & stocking: 20 gallon tank, stocked with 6 choco gouramis, 2 german gold rams, 4 otocinclus
Params: Ph 6.4, 80F, Nitrates = ? (they were between 0-5ppm before switching ferts)
Water Changes: 15% 2x/week but moving to 20% 2x/week
Filter: HOB filled with bio rocks and filter sponges (seems to have low surface agitation though)
CO2: ~2 bubbles per second (on/off 1 hour before lights come on/off)
Lighting: Finnex Planted + 24/7 (24 watts) on for 12 hours a day
Ferts: Thrive +, 1 pump with each water change (I know more is recommended for high-tech but I worry since I have nitrate sensitive fish)
Plants: heavily planted with water wisteria, ludwigia, crypts, swords, java fern, christmas moss, cyperus helferi, etc...

Any advice is very welcome! Thank you!
Cut back your lights to 8hrs at the most. Anytime I leave mine on for longer I get algae. You could add some fast growers like wisteria, anacharis, etc to suck up some nutrients. Set your finnex to MAX for 6 hrs. Maybe do a blackout for 24 hrs. Also, you could add some Seachem Excel. It works as a great algaecide when lights are off.
 
  • Thread Starter

DanniD

Member
tommywantfishy said:
Cut back your lights to 8hrs at the most. Anytime I leave mine on for longer I get algae. You could add some fast growers like wisteria, anacharis, etc to suck up some nutrients. Set your finnex to MAX for 6 hrs. Maybe do a blackout for 24 hrs. Also, you could add some Seachem Excel. It works as a great algaecide when lights are off.
Thank you! I've scaled back my lighting a it and increased ferts. Hopefully this works out well...
 

Baba

Member
Do you run your Finnex 24/7 in 24/7 mode? I have the earlier version and in 24/7 mode and injected CO2 there was not enough light for effective photo-period. I added a supplemental light for the high light hours (11am-3pm), this did the trick for me.
 
  • Thread Starter

DanniD

Member
Baba said:
Do you run your Finnex 24/7 in 24/7 mode? I have the earlier version and in 24/7 mode and injected CO2 there was not enough light for effective photo-period. I added a supplemental light for the high light hours (11am-3pm), this did the trick for me.
No, I just have it set to max for the whole photo period. It worked really well up until I started CO2 so I just have to figure out the balance now...
 

Mick Frost

Member
Looks like nutrient overload (your tank is what I call moderately planted). Cutting the light will help, but first I'd try cutting back the CO2. 2/sec is quite a bit in a 20.
 

dinosaur act

Member
BBA can be caused by inconstancy of co2 levels or poor circulation of co2 around your plants. i'd guess for you it could be due to your plants, as of the moment not being able to utilise the co2 you are providing due to newly introducing it or lack of ferts.

if you want to get rid of the bba sharpish on your next water change do the following;
turn off filter so you have no water movement
spot treat the areas of BBA whit syringe and liquid carbon(excel/easycarbon/ect) keep within recommend dose
wait 5 mins the BBA will start to turn red
continue whit your water change making sure to vac the area you have just treated (safer to remove as much excel/easycarbon as you can)
you may need to remove some of the red(dead) BBA manually as not to sure the otos will touch it, 'pest' snail will tho if you have any.
(this is only a short turn fix but may help your plants catch up)

heres a useful algae link:

hope this helps!

Mick Frost said:
Looks like nutrient overload (your tank is what I call moderately planted). Cutting the light will help, but first I'd try cutting back the CO2. 2/sec is quite a bit in a 20.
i'd be very surprised if its an over dose of fert, below is what op is getting whit 1ml of dosing.

Element ppm
NO3 1.75001
Po4 0.325
K 1.25
N 0.42268
P 0.10567
Fe 0.10039
Mg 0.00793
Cu 0.00119
B 0.02642
Co 0.00003
Mn 0.00925
Mo 0.00026
Zn 0.00211
 

tommywantfishy

Member
Ddelpinal said:
Thank you! I've scaled back my lighting a it and increased ferts. Hopefully this works out well...
Also, do you have a solenoid? Makes it so much more convenient, and maintains your co2 level if on a timer (will need 2 timers to cut co2 on an hr b4 lights) it will make your levels consistent, which can cause algae as well. And as was stated earlier, run MAX for 6-8 hrs, and nothing the rest of the time. Would go 5-6 until algae subsides. Definitely up your ferts, and up your plant load if possible. I like to float anacharis if I am happy w/ my scape as-is.

Also, do you have a drop checker? There is one on Amazon it is a JardliI (or whatever it is called). Has 4dkh solution. When and if you get a drop checker you will be able to maintain proper levels of 20-30 ppm Co2, and therefore determine how many BPS you actually need. BPS is not really a good way of telling....as your kh, and ph will have a major effect on how much co2 is dissolved in the water. You could gas 10 bps and if it isn't being dissolved properly, your drop checker won't turn green. Also, put it on the opposite side of your diffuser, or as far away on other side of tank. Sorry for the rambling. Tldr
 
  • Thread Starter

DanniD

Member
I have the following: drop checker, bubble counter, co2 regulator with built in solenoid, timers x2 with co2 on an hour before lights come on.

I have my diffuser in the middle of my tank beneath the outflow of my HOB filter. The drop checker is in the left front corner. It kind of stays at a deep green. Honestly that part is confusing to me. Should I increase co2 until I get a brighter green when the lights turn on?

I was thinking about the plants I have and nothing seems to jump out at me as fast growing. I have wisteria but it tends to grow
Slowly for whatever reason. Maybe I’ll throw in some pennywort since I always have good luck with that.

I have some more questions of you do t mind.. my stem plants (ludwigia and cabomba) have been gaining a lot of height really quickly but it’s more like they are being stretched out. So my ludwigia is no longer bushy. Also I’m losing some reddish color on the leaves. Do you know what’s causing that?

Thank you! This is so so helpfu
 

Baba

Member
Ddelpinal said:
I have the following: drop checker, bubble counter, co2 regulator with built in solenoid, timers x2 with co2 on an hour before lights come on.

I have my diffuser in the middle of my tank beneath the outflow of my HOB filter. The drop checker is in the left front corner. It kind of stays at a deep green. Honestly that part is confusing to me. Should I increase co2 until I get a brighter green when the lights turn on?

I was thinking about the plants I have and nothing seems to jump out at me as fast growing. I have wisteria but it tends to grow
Slowly for whatever reason. Maybe I’ll throw in some pennywort since I always have good luck with that.

I have some more questions of you do t mind.. my stem plants (ludwigia and cabomba) have been gaining a lot of height really quickly but it’s more like they are being stretched out. So my ludwigia is no longer bushy. Also I’m losing some reddish color on the leaves. Do you know what’s causing that?

Thank you! This is so so helpfu
Yes, carefully bring it to a brighter green. Remember it reacts very slow. Don't gas your fish.
I saw sources suggesting to replace the 4dkh solution very week, I think it's overkill. However, make sure it's not too old either. I replace mine once a month.
 

tommywantfishy

Member
Ddelpinal said:
I have the following: drop checker, bubble counter, co2 regulator with built in solenoid, timers x2 with co2 on an hour before lights come on.

I have my diffuser in the middle of my tank beneath the outflow of my HOB filter. The drop checker is in the left front corner. It kind of stays at a deep green. Honestly that part is confusing to me. Should I increase co2 until I get a brighter green when the lights turn on?

I was thinking about the plants I have and nothing seems to jump out at me as fast growing. I have wisteria but it tends to grow
Slowly for whatever reason. Maybe I’ll throw in some pennywort since I always have good luck with that.

I have some more questions of you do t mind.. my stem plants (ludwigia and cabomba) have been gaining a lot of height really quickly but it’s more like they are being stretched out. So my ludwigia is no longer bushy. Also I’m losing some reddish color on the leaves. Do you know what’s causing that?

Thank you! This is so so helpfu
Could be lack of iron. What is substrate again? Iron brings out the red. If you have a nutrient rich sub you will be good to go.

Also, yes, It takes up to 2-3 hrs for your drop checker to change. Also could be a lighting issue. Your tank is a 20 long right? If it was a 20 high the lighting could be a problem. Some plants just work better for some than others. But if they are reaching/stretching it could be a lighting issue, but I have been able to grow most plants except for carpets (hc/cuba, etc) under a finnex 24/7 in my 29 gallon standard. Just run as bright as possible for 6-8 hrs and give them a long photoperiod. They will appreciate the rest.

I added a Micmol 600 aqua air recently and it is almost too much.

Here is my 9.3. Running a twinstar 450e led. About to plant some tc's od HC Cuba in the space I cleared. Also going to move the front right plants over to the right completely for balance.

Btw I highly recommend this substrate. Got it from buceplant.com. UNS fine grade controsoil black
 
  • Thread Starter

DanniD

Member
tommywantfishy said:
Could be lack of iron. What is substrate again? Iron brings out the red. If you have a nutrient rich sub you will be good to go.

Also, yes, It takes up to 2-3 hrs for your drop checker to change. Also could be a lighting issue. Your tank is a 20 long right? If it was a 20 high the lighting could be a problem. Some plants just work better for some than others. But if they are reaching/stretching it could be a lighting issue, but I have been able to grow most plants except for carpets (hc/cuba, etc) under a finnex 24/7 in my 29 gallon standard. Just run as bright as possible for 6-8 hrs and give them a long photoperiod. They will appreciate the rest.

I added a Micmol 600 aqua air recently and it is almost too much.

Here is my 9.3. Running a twinstar 450e led. About to plant some tc's od HC Cuba in the space I cleared. Also going to move the front right plants over to the right completely for balance.

Btw I highly recommend this substrate. Got it from buceplant.com. UNS fine grade controsoil black
I have a 20 gallon high but here's the interesting thing... Before starting this CO2 stuff, my ludwigia was a beautiful red and wasn't stretching out at all. I was dosing Excel daily and Flourish bi-weekly, that's it. Now that I've added CO2, the color is fading and it's stretching out. My lights are the max intensity all ran for 10-12 hours. Could it be that light is the limiting factor now? My substrate is just flourite so no dirt... Had I known I was going high-tech, I would've dirted it.

Also changed my ferts from just the Flourish to Thrive+ 2x/week... Wasn't dosing iron before at all and now I am. This makes my head spin! Lol
Your tank looks gorgeous! The reds are to die for
 

tommywantfishy

Member
Ddelpinal said:
I have a 20 gallon high but here's the interesting thing... Before starting this CO2 stuff, my ludwigia was a beautiful red and wasn't stretching out at all. I was dosing Excel daily and Flourish bi-weekly, that's it. Now that I've added CO2, the color is fading and it's stretching out. My lights are the max intensity all ran for 10-12 hours. Could it be that light is the limiting factor now? My substrate is just flourite so no dirt... Had I known I was going high-tech, I would've dirted it.

Also changed my ferts from just the Flourish to Thrive+ 2x/week... Wasn't dosing iron before at all and now I am. This makes my head spin! Lol
Your tank looks gorgeous! The reds are to die for
Try this. Go to 8 hrs a day. Dose 3x/week. Simply put. I use thrive plus in the 9.3 tank too. And get your drop checker to medium green during photo period. Try for a week and let us know how it goes.

Keep that water column fertilized for the stems. I water change once every 2 weeks. Just watch your fish for odd behaviour.

And thanks btw!!
 

dinosaur act

Member
I think your limiting factor here is low ferts.

if it was me i'd be;
aiming to dose according to daily EI dosing whit 1-2 rest days (no ferts added)
have C02 at 30ppm
would also be doing 40-60% water changes weekly to "reset" my fert
would be using my lights as the limiting factor, its a bit of a odd way to do things but makes it simpler as you only need to hone your lights to the amount of growth you want.
if any algae was to show you would then lower your ferts according to the algae it is.

if you did not want a crazy amount of growth (decided by lighting times in above suggestion) you could even go to a leaner EI dose (half or 1-2/3rd).

I advocate this approach because:
lets say you tank runs out of K (potassium)
your plants will then not able to properly use the other nutrients in the tank (ferts/co2/light)
which in turn would then mean 'algeas' could out compete your plants for nutrients

hope this is helpful!

useful link: (dosing calculator)
 

KeeperOfASilentWorld

Member
Ddelpinal said:
HI all,

I just set up a pressurized CO2 system in my 20 gallon tank a few days ago! As expected, things will get harder before they get easier but it's always exciting.

Just today I've noticed a nice algae bloom. The culprits: black beard and green spot algae. Call me naive but I didn't expect it :/

This tank has been around for a few months

Does anyone have any idea on what might be causing this or how to help?

Tank information:
Size & stocking: 20 gallon tank, stocked with 6 choco gouramis, 2 german gold rams, 4 otocinclus
Params: Ph 6.4, 80F, Nitrates = ? (they were between 0-5ppm before switching ferts)
Water Changes: 15% 2x/week but moving to 20% 2x/week
Filter: HOB filled with bio rocks and filter sponges (seems to have low surface agitation though)
CO2: ~2 bubbles per second (on/off 1 hour before lights come on/off)
Lighting: Finnex Planted + 24/7 (24 watts) on for 12 hours a day
Ferts: Thrive +, 1 pump with each water change (I know more is recommended for high-tech but I worry since I have nitrate sensitive fish)
Plants: heavily planted with water wisteria, ludwigia, crypts, swords, java fern, christmas moss, cyperus helferi, etc...

Any advice is very welcome! Thank you!
Dear Ddelpinal ,

BBA is usually caused by inconsistent CO2 levels. 3 hours before lights on and off together with the lights is a better cycle. All bubble counters are different but 2bps is very unlikely to be sufficient. 3bps is a good starting point. Use a Ph pen instead of the drop checker, until then aI'm for yellowish green. AI'm for 35-40 ppm together with good surface agitation. Be sure that you have reached over 30-35 ppm before lights on and be sure that it stays there through the lighting period. If or when you fluctuate under 30 ppm problems arise. Fluctuations when you are over 30 ppm are irrelevant.

GSA can be caused by many reasons but will go away almost instantly with higher PO4 dosage.

The nitrogen in the fertilizers being dosed is in inorganic form and will not affect fish health. Maybe after 120 ppm or so. Dose Thrive in the suggested amount daily and do a %50 water change every week. You can not get higher than 30ppm nitrates by regular Thrive dosage. You are super safe until 50-60ppm ( from inorganic sources ), that's for sure.

Lower lighting period to 8 hours and adjust it to be consistent. Don't use the 24/7 mode and run it at max.

Remove all algae and spot treat the BBA with Seachem Excel. Even after algae disappears keep on dosing your regular daily excel doses together with CO2 injection.

Use Purigen !

Please feel free to ask any further questions.

Happy Fish Keeping
 

tommywantfishy

Member
KeeperOfASilentWorld said:
Dear Ddelpinal ,

BBA is caused by inconsistent CO2 levels. 3 hours before lights on and off together with the lights is a better cycle. All bubble counters are different but 2bps is very unlikely to be sufficient. 3bps is a good starting point. Use a Ph pen instead of the drop checker, until then aI'm for yellowish green. AI'm for 35-40 ppm together with good surface agitation. Be sure that you have reached over 30-35 ppm before lights on and be sure that it stays there through the lighting period. If or when you fluctuate under 30 ppm problems arise. Fluctuations when you are over 30 ppm are irrelevant.

GSA can be caused by many reasons but will go away almost instantly with higher PO4 dosage.

The nitrogen in the fertilizers being dosed is in inorganic form and will not affect fish health. Maybe after 120 ppm or so. Dose Thrive in the suggested amount daily and do a %50 water change every week. You can not get higher than 30ppm nitrates by regular Thrive dosage. You are super safe until 50-60ppm ( from inorganic sources ), that's for sure.

Do a %50WC every 1-3 days until the algae problems disappear.

Lower lighting period to 8 hours and adjust it to be consistent. Don't use the 24/7 mode and run it at max.

Remove all algae and spot treat the BBA with Seachem Excel. Even after algae disappears keep on dosing your regular daily excel doses together with CO2 injection.

Use Purigen !

Please feel free to ask any further questions.

Happy Fish Keeping
Good call on purigen KeeperOfASilentWorld

Long time no talk bro.
 
  • Thread Starter

DanniD

Member
This information is like gold to me right now! Thank you!
So far the algae is still growing but slowly so I'm feeling good about how things are going. I've increased my CO2 by a lot with no adverse effects on my fish. I'll continue monitoring tomorrow, might have to turn it down if it builds up too much throughout the day. Lights are on for 10 hours but I'll shorten the time again tomorrow. I don't like the 24/7 cycle so I just have it set to max when it's on. Tomorrow is maintenance day so I'll get rid of as much algae as I can and start Excel again (just normal daily dosing until algae is gone?)

One major issue I have with dosing ferts to the full capacity is that they recommend 50% water changes. Normally I'd have no issue with that BUT I have fish that are more sensitive to large volume water changes (chocolate gouramis & german gold rams). Right now I do 20% water changes twice a week. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing any more. Any suggestions for how to get around this?

I was thinking maybe dose Thrive+ twice a week instead of 3 times as recommended in order to get around this but now I'm not so sure...

Thank you!
 

tommywantfishy

Member
Ddelpinal said:
This information is like gold to me right now! Thank you!
So far the algae is still growing but slowly so I'm feeling good about how things are going. I've increased my CO2 by a lot with no adverse effects on my fish. I'll continue monitoring tomorrow, might have to turn it down if it builds up too much throughout the day. Lights are on for 10 hours but I'll shorten the time again tomorrow. I don't like the 24/7 cycle so I just have it set to max when it's on. Tomorrow is maintenance day so I'll get rid of as much algae as I can and start Excel again (just normal daily dosing until algae is gone?)

One major issue I have with dosing ferts to the full capacity is that they recommend 50% water changes. Normally I'd have no issue with that BUT I have fish that are more sensitive to large volume water changes (chocolate gouramis & german gold rams). Right now I do 20% water changes twice a week. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing any more. Any suggestions for how to get around this?

I was thinking maybe dose Thrive+ twice a week instead of 3 times as recommended in order to get around this but now I'm not so sure...

Thank you!
I would do Thrive plus 2 pumps 2x/week. Co2 is fine to increase. Just watch your fish for any gasping. If they do gasp have some surface agitation ready. I almost gassed my 29 last week. Had a spray bar on hand and 2 HOB'S and an airstone. They were fine in the end. Was scary, however.

The thrive plus won't hurt your fish. Unless you have inverts. If you have inverts use thrive S (I don't recall you having inverts).

After a day or two of getting co2 balanced you can start working on tank balance. I would grab some root tabs as well. Cant hurt. I prefer flourish tabs over the osmocote. I know lots of folks love the dry ferts but I don't have time for it. The extra expense is worth the convenience for me.

And agreed on increasing fert levels. Might as well go big. Can do a PwC if you have to. But dose it up to see if that is the missing link to your balance.

Ferts, co2, plant load, fish load....can take a bit to get it down pat.

Add excel 2 hours before lights on.
 
  • Thread Starter

DanniD

Member
tommywantfishy said:
I would do Thrive plus 2 pumps 2x/week. Co2 is fine to increase. Just watch your fish for any gasping. If they do gasp have some surface agitation ready. I almost gassed my 29 last week. Had a spray bar on hand and 2 HOB'S and an airstone. They were fine in the end. Was scary, however.

The thrive plus won't hurt your fish. Unless you have inverts. If you have inverts use thrive S (I don't recall you having inverts).

After a day or two of getting co2 balanced you can start working on tank balance. I would grab some root tabs as well. Cant hurt. I prefer flourish tabs over the osmocote. I know lots of folks love the dry ferts but I don't have time for it. The extra expense is worth the convenience for me.

And agreed on increasing fert levels. Might as well go big. Can do a PwC if you have to. But dose it up to see if that is the missing link to your balance.

Ferts, co2, plant load, fish load....can take a bit to get it down pat.

Add excel 2 hours before lights on.
If things go bad with the CO2, I have an airstone and I'll lower the water level so my HOB filter will splash around more... Hopefully it won't come to that.

I do have root tabs going for several of my plants (Crypys & swords).

What do you mean PwC? My biggest issue with maxing out ferts is that I can't do large volume water changes. I'm apprehensive to go more than 20% 2x/week. What do you think?
 

tommywantfishy

Member
Ddelpinal said:
If things go bad with the CO2, I have an airstone and I'll lower the water level so my HOB filter will splash around more... Hopefully it won't come to that.

I do have root tabs going for several of my plants (Crypys & swords).

What do you mean PwC? My biggest issue with maxing out ferts is that I can't do large volume water changes. I'm apprehensive to go more than 20% 2x/week. What do you think?
I would let it build up. In my 9.3 gallon I add 1 pump 3x/week. I don't have any livestock, however. Adding as soon as the tank balances out. I don't think it will hurt your fish. Just keep an eye on em. Would do one Partial water change (pwc) /week. But if your plants and fish are doing well you can push it.
 

KeeperOfASilentWorld

Member
tommywantfishy said:
Good call on purigen KeeperOfASilentWorld

Long time no talk bro.
I am back bro

Ddelpinal said:
This information is like gold to me right now! Thank you!
So far the algae is still growing but slowly so I'm feeling good about how things are going. I've increased my CO2 by a lot with no adverse effects on my fish. I'll continue monitoring tomorrow, might have to turn it down if it builds up too much throughout the day. Lights are on for 10 hours but I'll shorten the time again tomorrow. I don't like the 24/7 cycle so I just have it set to max when it's on. Tomorrow is maintenance day so I'll get rid of as much algae as I can and start Excel again (just normal daily dosing until algae is gone?)

One major issue I have with dosing ferts to the full capacity is that they recommend 50% water changes. Normally I'd have no issue with that BUT I have fish that are more sensitive to large volume water changes (chocolate gouramis & german gold rams). Right now I do 20% water changes twice a week. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing any more. Any suggestions for how to get around this?

I was thinking maybe dose Thrive+ twice a week instead of 3 times as recommended in order to get around this but now I'm not so sure...

Thank you!
Dear Ddelpinal ,

Yes daily excel dosing routine. Do the daily amount directly on to the algae infested areas with a syringe. After the algae is gone keep on dosing to the water column.

%50 water changes will not bother sensitive fish, on the opposite they will like them. This is a misunderstood statement going from one person to the other but unfortunately it carries no truth. Doing a large water change in a wrong way would be detrimental to sensitive shrimp and sometimes but rarely fish, that is why so many beginners and new starters counter many problems resulting to this gossip like statement.

Sensitive fish love the large water changes! They need fresh water, always, without organic waste! The water has to be the same temperature, kh and gh. You should have a separate heater, thermostat and a plastic container. You should use a pump to pump the water from the container to the tank.

Are your fish wild caught or captive bred? If wild caught you need soft water for them to thrive which would probably require a RO unit.

Dose ferts to the full amount daily. Add up the amount thrive tells you to dose 3x. Divide by 7. Dose daily. ( 2 pumps three times a week is 6 pumps a week, therefore 1 pump a day would be the right amount. )

Two %20 WC a week is not ideal for sensitive fish. If you really want to keep on doing small water changes do two %30. I personally would do two %50's to keep the fish even happier.

The WC schedule is a no brainer. CO2 should be the subject we should be discussing

Please feel free to ask any further questions. I would be more than happy to help.

Happy Fish Keeping
 

tommywantfishy

Member
KeeperOfASilentWorld said:
I am back bro



Dear Ddelpinal ,

Yes daily excel dosing routine. Do the daily amount directly on to the algae infested areas with a syringe. After the algae is gone keep on dosing to the water column.

%50 water changes will not bother sensitive fish, on the opposite they will like them. This is a misunderstood statement going from one person to the other but unfortunately it carries no truth. Doing a large water change in a wrong way would be detrimental to sensitive shrimp and sometimes but rarely fish, that is why so many beginners and new starters counter many problems resulting to this gossip like statement.

Sensitive fish love the large water changes! They need fresh water, always, without organics! The water has to be the same temperature, kh and gh. You should have a separate heater, thermostat and a plastic container. You should use a pump to pump the water from the container to the tank.

Are your fish wild caught or captive bred? If wild caught you need soft water for them to thrive which would probably require a RO unit.

Dose ferts to the full amount daily. Add up the amount thrive tells you to dose 3x. Divide by 7. Dose daily. ( 2 pumps three times a week is 6 pumps a week, therefore 1 pump a day would be the right amount. )

Two %20 WC a week equals to one %30 a week. Which is not ideal for sensitive fish. If you really want to keep on doing small water changes do two %30 which would equal to one %45. I personally would do two %50's to keep the sensitive fish even happier.

The WC schedule is a no brainer. CO2 should be the subject we should be discussing

Please feel free to ask any further questions. I would be more than happy to help.

Happy Fish Keeping
@ op. Keeperofasilentworld (love that name by the way) knows much more than I do.

Link your tanks.
9.3g & 5 gallon with red root floaters.

 

KeeperOfASilentWorld

Member
tommywantfishy said:
@ op. Keeperofasilentworld (love that name by the way) knows much more than I do.

Link your tanks.
9.3g & 5 gallon with red root floaters.

Looking good man! Both tanks look awesome

I have two ADA 60P's being scaped. They will be up and running in a few weeks

Here is the IwagumI :

 

tommywantfishy

Member
KeeperOfASilentWorld said:
Looking good man! Both tanks look awesome

I have two ADA 60P's being scaped. They will be up and running in a few weeks

Here is the IwagumI :

Wow. So nice. Just....dang...ha.
 

Jocelyn Adelman

Member
Unless your tank parameters are wildly different then your tap/water source your fish will be fine with a weekly change.

You can add as much co2/lighting as you want, but without proper nutrients the plants will suffer... suffering plants=algae.

You can also check into pps pro dosing, it’s a small daily dose... I’m sure there is a way to convert thrive to it, just got to dig around for the info. Might be able to get away with smaller changes???

My tanks do best with weekly 50% changes (high and low).
High tech tanks my nutrients almost bottom out within 24-36 hrs... a well balanced tank will use most of the nutrients... in EI the wc isn’t for lowering nitrates (side effect), but to remove any excess fert, thereby resetting the cycle”

Another possible cause of bba is an excess of dissolved organics (beyond co2 issues)... likely 2 20% isn’t enough...
Keep in mind that you are NOT doing a 40% weekly change...
Mathetically you are changing approx 36% weekly...

When algae is present more frequent/larger wc can help... if you don’t want to do larger changes you could always do 25% daily... (keep in mind it will still technically take a month, possibly longer, to have all the water changed with this)
Lolol ignore tommywantfishy advice of infrequent changes on high tech tanks... xoxo tommy. will say depending on which of my high techs it is, some can PUSH it two weeks without wc when life gets in the way, with ferts still being used dosed.....After that the tanks get messy. My low techs I often do bI monthly though...
Always keep in mind you want to do your wc before co2 is in, or when drop checker has returned to dark blue...

EDIT****
Whoops... just realized I missed a few posts where keeper basically said the same thing..


HihihI KeeperOfASilentWorld !
 

tommywantfishy

Member
Jocelyn Adelman said:
Unless your tank parameters are wildly different then your tap/water source your fish will be fine with a weekly change.

You can add as much co2/lighting as you want, but without proper nutrients the plants will suffer... suffering plants=algae.

You can also check into pps pro dosing, it’s a small daily dose... I’m sure there is a way to convert thrive to it, just got to dig around for the info. Might be able to get away with smaller changes???

My tanks do best with weekly 50% changes (high and low).
High tech tanks my nutrients almost bottom out within 24-36 hrs... a well balanced tank will use most of the nutrients... in EI the wc isn’t for lowering nitrates (side effect), but to remove any excess fert, thereby resetting the cycle”

Another possible cause of bba is an excess of dissolved organics (beyond co2 issues)... likely 2 20% isn’t enough...
Keep in mind that you are NOT doing a 40% weekly change...
Mathetically you are changing approx 36% weekly...

When algae is present more frequent/larger wc can help... if you don’t want to do larger changes you could always do 25% daily... (keep in mind it will still technically take a month, possibly longer, to have all the water changed with this)
Lolol ignore tommywantfishy advice of infrequent changes on high tech tanks... xoxo tommy. will say depending on which of my high techs it is, some can PUSH it two weeks without wc when life gets in the way, with ferts still being used dosed.....After that the tanks get messy. My low techs I often do bI monthly though...
Always keep in mind you want to do your wc before co2 is in, or when drop checker has returned to dark blue...

EDIT****
Whoops... just realized I missed a few posts where keeper basically said the same thing..


HihihI KeeperOfASilentWorld !
Just got woke by @jocelynadelman. Do what she says......she is a plant encyclopedia (she pronounces it en-cyclo-paid-ea) and is highly talented.
 
  • Thread Starter

DanniD

Member
Jocelyn Adelman said:
Unless your tank parameters are wildly different then your tap/water source your fish will be fine with a weekly change.

You can add as much co2/lighting as you want, but without proper nutrients the plants will suffer... suffering plants=algae.

You can also check into pps pro dosing, it’s a small daily dose... I’m sure there is a way to convert thrive to it, just got to dig around for the info. Might be able to get away with smaller changes???

My tanks do best with weekly 50% changes (high and low).
High tech tanks my nutrients almost bottom out within 24-36 hrs... a well balanced tank will use most of the nutrients... in EI the wc isn’t for lowering nitrates (side effect), but to remove any excess fert, thereby resetting the cycle”

Another possible cause of bba is an excess of dissolved organics (beyond co2 issues)... likely 2 20% isn’t enough...
Keep in mind that you are NOT doing a 40% weekly change...
Mathetically you are changing approx 36% weekly...

When algae is present more frequent/larger wc can help... if you don’t want to do larger changes you could always do 25% daily... (keep in mind it will still technically take a month, possibly longer, to have all the water changed with this)
Lolol ignore tommywantfishy advice of infrequent changes on high tech tanks... xoxo tommy. will say depending on which of my high techs it is, some can PUSH it two weeks without wc when life gets in the way, with ferts still being used dosed.....After that the tanks get messy. My low techs I often do bI monthly though...
Always keep in mind you want to do your wc before co2 is in, or when drop checker has returned to dark blue...

EDIT****
Whoops... just realized I missed a few posts where keeper basically said the same thing..


HihihI KeeperOfASilentWorld !
Wow, I hadn't checked to see any replies on this thread but this is great advice! Honestly this is my first time keeping anything other than the hardiest of the hardiest so I'm trying my best. That being said, I did my first 50% water change yesterday and all seems to be well I will continue do that as long as it seems to keep the fish happy. I did realize that 2 20% changes were not 40% but it was working out when everything was low-tech.

Now I'm dosing Thrive+ daily (calls for 2 pumps 3x.week so I'm just doing one daily for 6days/week). Just started that so I'm hoping it'll help curb some of the algae growth. The algae is still coming on slowly but I'm hoping it'll work. Also might reduce the photoperiod even more. I'm trying to be extra good about getting into the nooks of the tank to get all the detritus out in case that's contributing to the BBA. Other than these issues my plants are growing like WEEDS. I have so many clippings and I hate to toss them!

There have been some awesome posts here. THANK YOU EVERYONE!! So many beautiful tanks <3 That IwagumI though... seriously gorgeous

I'm also looking into better filtration as I've also read that helps hinder algae growth. Any recommendations? I do try to keep strong currents to a minimum since chocolate gouramis are sensitive to that...
 

tommywantfishy

Member
DanniD said:
I'm also looking into better filtration as I've also read that helps hinder algae growth. Any recommendations? I do try to keep strong currents to a minimum since chocolate gouramis are sensitive to that...
What size is your tank? What filter are you running currently?

I run a seachem Tidal 75 and an Aquaclear 50 on my 29g.

I would suggest adding some Purigen for some amazing filtration. Can get a 100 ml pouch for like 8 bucks on Amazon and they are rechargeable. Always have 2 on hand per tank.
 
  • Thread Starter

DanniD

Member
tommywantfishy said:
What size is your tank? What filter are you running currently?

I run a seachem Tidal 75 and an Aquaclear 50 on my 29g.

I would suggest adding some Purigen for some amazing filtration. Can get a 100 ml pouch for like 8 bucks on Amazon and they are rechargeable. Always have 2 on hand per tank.
Yes, I've been thinking of purigen. I'm wondering if that might give my tank the extra kick it needs without investing in a new piece of hardware. I'm running a Marina SlI'm S20 with my own filter media instead of cartridges. It does the job but leaves much to be desired to really get the water clean.

I was looking into the AquaClears but I was still mulling it over since flow on those can be a bit intense without finding all kinds of weird ways to redirect the water
 

tommywantfishy

Member
DanniD said:
Yes, I've been thinking of purigen. I'm wondering if that might give my tank the extra kick it needs without investing in a new piece of hardware. I'm running a Marina SlI'm S20 with my own filter media instead of cartridges. It does the job but leaves much to be desired to really get the water clean.

I was looking into the AquaClears but I was still mulling it over since flow on those can be a bit intense without finding all kinds of weird ways to redirect the water
Aquaclears are great. You can dial the flow back, as well as being able to change out impellers. For instance, I run an aquaclear 50 with an aquaclear 20 impeller. More surface media contact, and lower flow. I have run it before with a 70 impeller as well. I would get a 50 and get a few impellers to try out. Aquaclears are incredibly modifiable.

Also Purigen will be a God send for you. If you don't like it I will buy it from you. Could always use another 100ml pouch.
 
  • Thread Starter

DanniD

Member
tommywantfishy said:
Aquaclears are great. You can dial the flow back, as well as being able to change out impellers. For instance, I run an aquaclear 50 with an aquaclear 20 impeller. More surface media contact, and lower flow. I have run it before with a 70 impeller as well. I would get a 50 and get a few impellers to try out. Aquaclears are incredibly modifiable.

Also Purigen will be a God send for you. If you don't like it I will buy it from you. Could always use another 100ml pouch.
Just grabbed Purigen off Amazon so we'll see how it goes. If I'm not satisfied, I'll upgrade to the AquaClears..

In terms of my tank setup as a whole, I've also decided to invest in second light fixture. I also just bought another Finnex Planted+ 24/7 to double the lighting. I noticed my stem plants stretching up the surface a lot so I'm thinking my light isn't strong enough now that I have CO2 and good ferts. Very excited to get this working correctly...

BBA is still growing unfortunately but again, slowly. For now, I'm trying my hardest to vacuum up all the detritus and reducing feedings. I was trying Excel but it started killing my Christmas moss. I'm thinking of going for hydrogen peroxide. Any opinions?
 

tommywantfishy

Member
DanniD said:
Just grabbed Purigen off Amazon so we'll see how it goes. If I'm not satisfied, I'll upgrade to the AquaClears..

In terms of my tank setup as a whole, I've also decided to invest in second light fixture. I also just bought another Finnex Planted+ 24/7 to double the lighting. I noticed my stem plants stretching up the surface a lot so I'm thinking my light isn't strong enough now that I have CO2 and good ferts. Very excited to get this working correctly...

BBA is still growing unfortunately but again, slowly. For now, I'm trying my hardest to vacuum up all the detritus and reducing feedings. I was trying Excel but it started killing my Christmas moss. I'm thinking of going for hydrogen peroxide. Any opinions?
You won't regret the Purigen. I would do a big water change. Get the level pretty low (leave your fish swimming room, and spot treat with a syringe of H2o2. It should melt back and turn a red color then it will be easier to remove by just rubbing the leaf. Or you can pull the plants and spray them with peroxide. Have done it before and plants were fine.
 

KeeperOfASilentWorld

Member
DanniD said:
Just grabbed Purigen off Amazon so we'll see how it goes. If I'm not satisfied, I'll upgrade to the AquaClears..

In terms of my tank setup as a whole, I've also decided to invest in second light fixture. I also just bought another Finnex Planted+ 24/7 to double the lighting. I noticed my stem plants stretching up the surface a lot so I'm thinking my light isn't strong enough now that I have CO2 and good ferts. Very excited to get this working correctly...

BBA is still growing unfortunately but again, slowly. For now, I'm trying my hardest to vacuum up all the detritus and reducing feedings. I was trying Excel but it started killing my Christmas moss. I'm thinking of going for hydrogen peroxide. Any opinions?
One Finnex should be plenty of light. Stems stretching up and reaching for light is a sign of CO2 deficiency. Dial in and adjust your CO2 before going for a higher light. Invest in a pH pen before the light.

Do not stop dosing excel before all problems disappear. Dose half if you prefer.

KeeperOfASilentWorld said:
BBA is caused by inconsistent CO2 levels. 3 hours before lights on and off together with the lights is a better cycle. All bubble counters are different but 2bps is very unlikely to be sufficient. 3bps is a good starting point. Use a Ph pen instead of the drop checker, until then aI'm for yellowish green. AI'm for 35-40 ppm together with good surface agitation. Be sure that you have reached over 30-35 ppm before lights on and be sure that it stays there through the lighting period. If or when you fluctuate under 30 ppm problems arise. Fluctuations when you are over 30 ppm are irrelevant.
Read above and please ask any further questions. You should dial in your CO2 as soon as possible.
 
  • Thread Starter

DanniD

Member
KeeperOfASilentWorld said:
One Finnex should be plenty of light. Stems stretching up and reaching for light is a sign of CO2 deficiency. Dial in and adjust your CO2 before going for a higher light. Invest in a pH pen before the light.

Do not stop dosing excel before all problems disappear. Dose half if you prefer.



Read above and please ask any further questions. You should dial in your CO2 as soon as possible.
I’m really trying to get all these moving parts.. so should I try increasing CO2 again? Ph is in line now and the drop checker looks good too. I feel like I’m blasting CO2 already but you’re saying it might now be enough?

The BBA was growing super close to my moss and it was killing it. Do you have any opinions on the h2o2?

Thanks!
 

KeeperOfASilentWorld

Member
The pH pen is for accurate CO2 measurements rather than the pH itself. Check here:

Once you dial in the CO2 the BBA will disappear.

DanniD said:
the drop checker looks good too. I feel like I’m blasting CO2 already but you’re saying it might now be enough?
We can not know before doing any measurements. We can only assume which is not enough.

You have to be above 30-35 ppm before lights on and stay above 35ppm trough out the entire photo period. A drop checker can't provide us with such information.

This is a very decent pH pen :

And here is a high end one if you want more accuracy/precision and ok to pay a little extra :
 
  • Thread Starter

DanniD

Member
KeeperOfASilentWorld said:
This is a very decent pH pen :

And here is a high end one if you want more accuracy/precision and ok to pay a little extra :
This is great! Thank you!!! I ordered one so we’ll see in a couple days
 

tommywantfishy

Member
DanniD said:
This is great! Thank you!!! I ordered one so we’ll see in a couple days
I ordered one last night as well
 

Dave125g

Member
This chart may help, if you know your KH. The algae issue is most likely the photo period, as stated. 8 hours is more then enough.
 

tommywantfishy

Member
Dave125g said:
This chart may help, if you know your KH. The algae issue is most likely the photo period, as stated. 8 hours is more then enough.
Ok. So help me understand this. My KH is 12. My ph is 8.6 from tap. I am using UNS Controsoil to buffer. But, in an unbuffered tank with 8.6 ph, and 12 kh and 12 gh.....what would be my ideal ppm??
 

Dave125g

Member
tommywantfishy said:
Ok. So help me understand this. My KH is 12. My ph is 8.6 from tap. I am using UNS Controsoil to buffer. But, in an unbuffered tank with 8.6 ph, and 12 kh and 12 gh.....what would be my ideal ppm??
According to this chart your ph should drop to 7.0-7.2 and CO2 would be around 25ppm.
 

tommywantfishy

Member
Dave125g said:
According to this chart your ph should drop to 7.0-7.2 and CO2 would be around 25ppm.
Thanks Dave125g
Makes sense. So add enough co2...to get my ph down to 7.0-7.2
Would that make my ppm 25ish? Just a bunch of variables lol.
 

Dave125g

Member
tommywantfishy said:
Thanks Dave125g
Makes sense. So add enough co2...to get my ph down to 7.0-7.2
Would that make my ppm 25ish? Just a bunch of variables lol.
Give or take yep. My 10 gallon gets 3bps. My 125 is at 5-7 bps. My ph is right where it should be. Just keep an eye on your fish. If you notice them breathing heavier then normal turn it down some.
 

tommywantfishy

Member
Dave125g said:
Give or take yep. My 10 gallon gets 3bps. My 125 is at 5-7 bps. My ph is right where it should be. Just keep an eye on your fish. If you notice them breathing heavier then normal turn it down some.
Well. Ok. Here is my real ? (Also, not trying to hijack thread)
I have zero livestock in my 9.3g.

Just plants and Ultum Nature Systems Controsoil. About to add 2 HC/Cuba tc's. That plant seems to hate my water. Gonna try it one more time.

I understand inconsistent co2 levels are bad. Is there a limit on how much co2 I can run?

Running a 6 hr photoperiod with about 2-3 bps of pressurized co2. Drop checker turns yellow. Also...twinstar 450e led is putting out plenty of light. Also running 2 azoo filters. One 150, and a 60. Also have a 40gph pump above my diffuser to distribute my co2.

Also running a twinstar m5 algae inhibitor
 

Dave125g

Member
tommywantfishy said:
Well. Ok. Here is my real ? (Also, not trying to hijack thread)
I have zero livestock in my 9.3g.

Just plants and Ultum Nature Systems Controsoil. About to add 2 HC/Cuba tc's. That plant seems to hate my water. Gonna try it one more time.

I understand inconsistent co2 levels are bad. Is there a limit on how much co2 I can run?

Running a 6 hr photoperiod with about 2-3 bps of pressurized co2. Drop checker turns yellow. Also...twinstar 450e led is putting out plenty of light. Also running 2 azoo filters. One 150, and a 60. Also have a 40gph pump above my diffuser to distribute my co2.

Also running a twinstar m5 algae inhibitor
If it's a plant tank only then you can load it up with CO2 if you want. Consider this though... Some plants just will not live in hard water or soft water. There's many other factors also.
 

tommywantfishy

Member
Dave125g said:
If it's a plant tank only then you can load it up with CO2 if you want. Consider this though... Some plants just will not live in hard water or soft water. There's many other factors also.
Thanks. I know substrate can only buffer to a certain extent. My water, as I was told by a friend is like "liquid rock".

Lots of plants are fine.....just have issues with carpets.
 

Dave125g

Member
tommywantfishy said:
Thanks. I know substrate can only buffer to a certain extent. My water, as I was told by a friend is like "liquid rock".

Lots of plants are fine.....just have issues with carpets.
Mine is very hard also. My KH is 20. There's lots of plants I can't do also. There are quite a few that thrive in hard water.
 

Jocelyn Adelman

Member
Problem with the ph/kH chart is the accuracy... buffers, substrates, woods, etc all affect these numbers... the chart is good for a ballpark, the drop checker is better (aI'm for lime green, go slowly up if you need and monitor the fish), ph monitor is best... monitor you don’t have to worry if it’s even an accurate ph reading specifically, just that it’s measuring the drop correctly... a 1 point drop is a good starting point...
Have also seen some use the seachem ph alert... better used for instant I’d, basically a combo of drop checker and ph pen (not as accurate as pen, general numbers, wide gaps, colors can be hard to interpret). Advantage of ph alert is it registers faster then a drop checker,
 

Dave125g

Member
Jocelyn Adelman said:
Problem with the ph/kH chart is the accuracy... buffers, substrates, woods, etc all affect these numbers... the chart is good for a ballpark, the drop checker is better (aI'm for lime green, go slowly up if you need and monitor the fish), ph monitor is best... monitor you don’t have to worry if it’s even an accurate ph reading specifically, just that it’s measuring the drop correctly... a 1 point drop is a good starting point...
Have also seen some use the seachem ph alert... better used for instant I’d, basically a combo of drop checker and ph pen (not as accurate as pen, general numbers, wide gaps, colors can be hard to interpret). Advantage of ph alert is it registers faster then a drop checker,
Is there any accurate and affordable test to specifically test CO2 levels?
 

Jocelyn Adelman

Member
Most accurate... Cheapest but most labor intensive is using your ph kit from api, measuring every 30 min.... ph pen isn’t too expensive, upgrade from having to do manual.

Drop checker would be next best, most checkers come with a 4dkh solution... while glass looks best, it’s easier to read against a white background... I like the ista drop checkers (again, aI'm for lime green)

Then ph alert... have found it only accurate for about a month, so costs start to add up here. Again, faster readings then a drop checker but harder to interpret correctly.

All that being said, the ph alert and pens/test kit are more helpful when first dialing in co2 (drop checker takes awhile to respond... I believe up to 2hrs for complete accuracy, but I could be remembering that incorrectly). Drop checker is better for when you have dialed in/set the co2 rate for general at a glance monitoring
 

tommywantfishy

Member
Jocelyn Adelman said:
Most accurate... Cheapest but most labor intensive is using your ph kit from api, measuring every 30 min.... ph pen isn’t too expensive, upgrade from having to do manual.

Drop checker would be next best, most checkers come with a 4dkh solution... while glass looks best, it’s easier to read against a white background... I like the ista drop checkers (again, aI'm for lime green)

Then ph alert... have found it only accurate for about a month, so costs start to add up here. Again, faster readings then a drop checker but harder to interpret correctly.

All that being said, the ph alert and pens/test kit are more helpful when first dialing in co2 (drop checker takes awhile to respond... I believe up to 2hrs for complete accuracy, but I could be remembering that incorrectly). Drop checker is better for when you have dialed in/set the co2 rate for general at a glance monitoring
Ph pen coming tomorrow. Woop! Will compare to API. It's the same one that KeeperOfASilentWorld recommended. Thanks @Jocelynadelman
 

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