Algae/deficiencies On Plants

blizowman1

I have this brown or green algae coming up on my anubius.
And some of my amazon swords either have white or see threw leaves.
My lights I use are the beamsworks 10k on a timer for 10 hrs. Eco complete with root tabs in some areas, about 10 in the substrate right now but have 10 more in the mail.
Last time I checked : ph 7.6 ammonia 0 nitrites 0 nitrates 20
I have quit a few dry ferts from back in the day. Right now I have a bottle of micromacro mix made up from aquariumplantfertilizer.com.
I don’t want to over dose cause I don’t dose co2 or excel. But right now dose 2 caps a week.
I recently just removed the carbon I had in the canister, ran it for maybe a month to remove tannins
 

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-Mak-

Magnesium deficiency most likely, as seen by the dark veins surrounded by lighter colored leaf. Do you know your GH?
 

MD_Plants

that seems like a long time on the light for a 10k light. I would cut it down to 6 or so hours. it will go away by itself over time. or you can get a bristle pleco
 

SeattleRoy

I have this brown or green algae coming up on my anubius.
And some of my amazon swords either have white or see threw leaves.
My lights I use are the beamsworks 10k on a timer for 10 hrs. Eco complete with root tabs in some areas, about 10 in the substrate right now but have 10 more in the mail.
Last time I checked : ph 7.6 ammonia 0 nitrites 0 nitrates 20
I have quit a few dry ferts from back in the day. Right now I have a bottle of micromacro mix made up from aquariumplantfertilizer.com.
I don’t want to over dose cause I don’t dose co2 or excel. But right now dose 2 caps a week.
I recently just removed the carbon I had in the canister, ran it for maybe a month to remove tannins

HI @blizowman1,

It could be a magnesium issue as -Mak- stated or something else....would you please get me a clear picture of the newest leaf on your anubias?
 

blizowman1

Lights are out right now but it’s rather yellow, with dark veins, same with the amazon swords most leaves are either white or see threw except in the areas of the veins
 

SeattleRoy

Lights are out right now but it’s rather yellow, with dark veins, same with the amazon swords most leaves are either white or see threw except in the areas of the veins

HI blizowman1

Maybe you can get me a picture tomorrow, I want to confirm that it isn't an iron issue. With a pH of 7.6 and the aquariumfertilizer.com macromicro mix which contains CSM+B as the source of micro-nutrients it is possible that the iron in the mix is unattainable due to the pH. The new leaf will tell the story.
 

blizowman1

So the instructions say to mix 60 gallonin 500ml bottle I mixed 30 gallon In a 250ml bottle I was dozing like once a week 2 cap fulls, but I may start every other day one capful
 

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SeattleRoy

HI blizowman1

The third photo in the post above shows interveinal chlorosis on the new leaves, this is an indication of insufficient available iron. When interveinal chlorosis shows up on older leaves but the new leaves look 'normal' then the problem is usually magnesium related. When interveinal chlorosis shows up on new leaves, it is an indication of a iron issue. Obviously if a new leaf has interveinal chlorosis the symptom is displayed even as the leaf matures. It appears this iron insufficiency has been going on for some time.

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I don't know how to tell you this but increasing your dosing will likely not solve the iron issue and may result in you overdosing your macro-nutrients. You may ask why, if CSM+B has chelated iron, as an ingredient why are my plants having an iron issue? It has to do with the type of iron in Plantex CSM+B. Plantex uses an ETDA chelated iron in their micro-nutrient mix. EDTA iron works fine if the pH is below 6.2, it is marginally adequate at ph 7.0, it is basically unavailable (<5%) at a pH of 7.2 or higher as shown by the graph below.

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So what to do? Here is what I suggest. Pick up a bottle of Seachem Flourish Iron which is made from ferrous gluconate. It is quickly absorbed by plants even at higher pH levels. Add 3/8 teaspoon per 10 gallons 2 times a week; this will add a little of 0.4 ppm of additional iron to your nutrient dosing. What you should see after dosing for two weeks is the new leaves no longer show the interveinal chlorosis, however keep in mind any existing leaves will not change and may continue to decline in health...the damage has been done and cannot be corrected. Hope this helps! Questions, just ask! -Roy
 

blizowman1

What about the funky brown algae on the leaves or the white and see threw leaves of my amazon swords
 

blizowman1

I also have all of these that I had from my last 90g. Would it be better just to use the plantex csm+b by itself instead of the micromacro mix
 

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SeattleRoy

HI blizowman1

For brown algae (Diatoms) I have a couple of Otocinclus per tank, they eat diatoms like it is candy.

If it is the new leaves that are looking white / clear it is another symptom of lack of iron. Iron is necessary for a plant to make chlorophyll, which gives a plant its green color.

Let me rephrase, you can dump a whole bag of CSM+B in pH 7.6 water and minimal iron will become available to the plants. It is the ETDA Chelated iron that is the problem, not how it is being dosed. To make iron available to the plants in a 7.6 pH tank you need iron in a different form, that is why I recommended ferrous gluconate / Flourish Iron.


B. Terminal bud remaining alive. Symptoms on new growth.

1. Interveinal chlorosis on young leaves.

a. Interveinal chlorosis on young leaves with larger veins only remaining green. Necrotic spots usually absent; however, with extreme deficiencies, young leaves are almost white and may have necrotic margins and tips; necrotic spots may extend inward. potassium, zinc or copper excess can inhibit uptake of iron. High pH may also induce iron deficiency....iron deficiency

Iron deficiency symptoms are similar to those of magnesium deficiency, but iron deficiencies occur in young leaves first: Iron accumulated in older leaves is relatively immobile in the phloem.
 

blizowman1

That I you for the info I’ll def get me some iron on the way to me cause I doubt the petsmart in town carries it. Is there a more cost affective way of dosing iron cause isn’t flourish iron really just paying for water
 

blizowman1

And what exactly is ETDA chelates iron mean
 

SeattleRoy

HI blizowman1

Aren't most liquid fertilizers water? Personally I dose dry salts for all of my nutrients with the exception of my CO2 supplement which is in liquid form.

Iron in the soil and earths' crust is typically in the form of Fe+3, however for plants to efficiently uptake in they prefer iron in the form of Fe+2. In order to make iron available in a form for plants to utilize efficiently it is typically 'chelated' (bonded to) another molecule. There are several types of chelates out there such as ETDA (like Plantex CSM uses), DTPA, EDDHA, and others. Depending upon the pH of a tank each chelate 'releases' the iron differently. Most of the various chelates work well in acidic (low pH) conditions releasing the bond to the iron and making it available to the plants. However as the pH increases and moves over to the alkaline side of neutral most chelates are less efficient at releasing their iron molecules (as shown in the chart above). Why do most aquarium fertilizers use ETDA chelated iron, because it is the least expensive. Don't misunderstand, I use CSM+B in my own tanks, it is a good source of micro-nutrients such as manganese, magnesium, molybdenum, zinc, and iron (for me) because all but one of my tanks is acidic (pH <7.0).

Other than Seachem Iron the only other fertilizer that I know of that uses a different form of iron is NilocG Thrive (not Thrive+, Thrive C, Thrive S). It does have some ETDA chelated iron but it also has some DTPA chelated iron so at least a small portion of the iron in the solution is available to plants at a higher (alkaline) pH. You can certainly purchase ferrous gluconate in powder form (about $10 for 8 oz) however when trying to determine the cause of a deficiency I find that recommending something easy to acquire and use with a known concentration is best. In this case, if the change in iron to Seachem Iron resolves the problem (which I suspect it will) then I will be happy to assist you in finding reliable sources and formulas for ferrous gluconate.

Hope this helps! -Roy
 

blizowman1

Thanks I’ll order some iron and start dosing and keep you updated
 

Kevin Dennis

So, which iron would be better for high ph tanks?

DTPA Iron Chelate 11% DTPA

Ferrous Gluconate Ferrous Gluconate 12.46%
 

blizowman1

I ordered some flourish iron to see what it’ll do, I just got some new crypts in today, parva, brown Indo, and tropica but my minI clump of red I think is looking good
 

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WadeEH

So, which iron would be better for high ph tanks?

DTPA Iron Chelate 11% DTPA

Ferrous Gluconate Ferrous Gluconate 12.46%
The DTPA Iron is for higher pH tanks. I just ordered some of it for my own tanks with pH of 7.8 and 8.0.
 

WadeEH

The DTPA Iron is for higher pH tanks. I just ordered some of it for my own tanks with pH of 7.8 and 8.0.
That's according to the descriptions on the NA web site that you had links to, but now I'm not sure after reading SeattleRoy 's post above. The NA website says that the Ferrous Gluconate is for acidic water. Please help Roy. LOL.
 

SeattleRoy

HI Kevin Dennis

DTPA starts dropping from 100% effectiveness at about pH@6.5 by the time we get to pH 7.5 only 50% of the amount dosed is available to the plants. Personally I prefer ferrous gluconate, I use it in my acidic tanks and the ones that are alkaline as well. It is very quickly absorbed by plants so it needs to be dosed at lease 2X - 3X per week. There is an excellent thread over on plantedtank.net regarding ferrous gluconate. Ferrous gluconate may be more expensive 'up front' but considering it is several times more effective than other types or iron in pH>7.5 tanks it is actually less expensive.
 

SeattleRoy

That's according to the descriptions on the NA web site that you had links to, but now I'm not sure after reading SeattleRoy 's post above. The NA website says that the Ferrous Gluconate is for acidic water. Please help Roy. LOL.

HI WadeEH,

I am sorry I cannot explain the statement made on the NA website and I cannot find any documentation validating that statement.
 

WadeEH

Thanks SeattleRoy. I already bought the DTPA Iron that Kevin Dennis posted the link to above. Do you have any tips about how to dose it? My plants are showing signs of possible iron deficiency, so I thought I would give it a try. I have a 36g and 55 gallon with pH of 7.8-8.0, dKH of 8 and dGH of 12.

Edit: Nitrates are about 40 ppm.
 

WadeEH

HI WadeEH,

I am sorry I cannot explain the statement made on the NA website and I cannot find any documentation validating that statement.
No problem, your explanation above cleared things up. I'm guessing it is just a typo or cut and paste error in the NA product description.
 

Kevin Dennis

HI Kevin Dennis

DTPA starts dropping from 100% effectiveness at about pH@6.5 by the time we get to pH 7.5 only 50% of the amount dosed is available to the plants. Personally I prefer ferrous gluconate, I use it in my acidic tanks and the ones that are alkaline as well. It is very quickly absorbed by plants so it needs to be dosed at lease 2X - 3X per week. There is an excellent thread over on plantedtank.net regarding ferrous gluconate. Ferrous gluconate may be more expensive 'up front' but considering it is several times more effective than other types or iron in pH>7.5 tanks it is actually less expensive.

Thank you for the information.
 

blizowman1

So I bought the iron and it says dose 1 capful for every 50 gallon since my tank is 60 gallonI dosed one cap and just a bit more. How often do I dose though, just once a week after every water change or more often
 

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