African Dwarf Frog

babiimoore

Member
I believe I have two females, but I was hoping to breed in future. wanted a second opinion before I consider trying to find a male.

frog 1


frog 2
 
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babiimoore

Member
frog 1


frog 2
 

midna

Member
yep, I believe they're both female. males have a small reddish or white bump behind their armpits and have shorter tails, just a tiny little nub. they are also less round than females. I also noticed that they look more "muscular" and wiry, with thicker forelegs. females have little delicate-looking forelegs.

edit: that being said, some of these photos confuse me lol. have you noticed any buzzing sounds coming from them? I believe that only the males sing.
 
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babiimoore

Member
midna said:
yep, I believe they're both female. males have a small reddish or white bump behind their armpits and have shorter tails, just a tiny little nub. they are also less round than females. I also noticed that they look more "muscular" and wiry, with thicker forelegs. females have little delicate-looking forelegs.

edit: that being said, some of these photos confuse me lol. have you noticed any buzzing sounds coming from them? I believe that only the males sing.

ive noticed them getting rounder lately, but theyve also gotten better at finding the plate. I feed them every other day. I'm not sure how old they are, I got them a couple weeks ago. and I haven't noticed any singing, unless its loud my other 10 gallons filter would block it out.
 

midna

Member
hmm. I would say that if you ever see them mate, then you'd know for sure they're the opposite gender, but i've seen photos of males "mating" with each other, haha. that or if you suddenly find eggs in your tank.

it's pretty difficult to successfully breed adfs, btw. even more difficult to keep their young alive; they're very finnicky. a few members on here have done it, though, but it takes work. i'd definitely research breeding and rearing tadpoles before you plan on anything. also, I personally would just keep it to 2 frogs per 5 gallons. you might be able to fit three.

I kinda wish I had tried, honestly. both my froggies died and I didn't have any luck with replacement frogs their eggs weren't fertilized.
 

Fizzfrog

Member
They're both so cute! They both look like females to me as well, but if they're young the males won't have developed a bump behind their arms yet so it can be a bit hard to tell. I have a male (tried to get him some friends but alas, chytrid is rampant in my area and I haven't been able to successfully treat any of the frogs I've gotten from chain stores) and he never seems to put on any weight even though I feed him a healthy amount, so if your frogs are putting on weight easily chances are they're female. My frog definitely sings loudly enough to drown out the sound of a 10-gal filter and a sponge filter though, so if you had males you should be able to hear when they sing - usually happens at night, but won't happen every night and sometimes won't happen for a few weeks after you bring him home. Males will also amplex (looks like they're hugging the other frog), but females won't, so if you see hugging or hear singing you know for sure you have a male.
 
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babiimoore

Member
I'm so upset.. I lost frog #2.. she was acting like a happy little frog last night, swimming around, floated for a little bit, was crawling on the floor.. she still had a plump little belly from her meal the day before (I feed every other day) and I turned her light off and told her goodnight. when I woke up she was on her back in the food bowl.. and I just don't understand.. I did a water change and honestly didnt test my water right after I found her because I have another frog to worry about. but I had tested it the day before and ammonia was .25 and no nitrite. there was a bacteria bloom a couple days ago but its cleared up now.. the only thing that was weird about her was she was peeling for a couple days, but I thought that was normal when I looked it up. it said she would peel and have a beautiful dark coat underneath, and she did. the only difference between her and her sister was that she was a bit more shy, had a bigger belly and had cloudy blue eyes, my other frogs eyes are yellow.. I don't understand...
 

midna

Member
oh no i'm so sorry to hear it. if she was shedding that much, then there was something wrong with her. if their shed is hanging off of them in tatters, it's also not a good sign. frogs shed once a week and should ideally shed their entire skin in one piece.

you didn't notice any excessive bloating, paling, thrashing at the surface, floating a lot??

i'm hoping your remaining frog doesn't catch whatever she might have had. adfs are very susceptible to many bacterial and fungal infections, including the deadly chytrid fungus that runs rampant in pet stores and mass breeders. it can take up to 3 months for chytrid to show itself. i'd read up on it a bit if you don't know about it.
 
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babiimoore

Member
midna said:
oh no i'm so sorry to hear it. if she was shedding that much, then there was something wrong with her. if their shed is hanging off of them in tatters, it's also not a good sign. frogs shed once a week and should ideally shed their entire skin in one piece.

you didn't notice any excessive bloating, paling, thrashing at the surface, floating a lot??

i'm hoping your remaining frog doesn't catch whatever she might have had. adfs are very susceptible to many bacterial and fungal infections, including the deadly chytrid fungus that runs rampant in pet stores and mass breeders. it can take up to 3 months for chytrid to show itself. i'd read up on it a bit if you don't know about it.
no, her behavior was very normal, she was only floating for a little bit as she always does, same with her sister. she did have a little bit of skin hanging off of her, and she was more plump then her sister but it didnt strike me as bloated, just full because she mostly was bigger in the hips, it wasn't like she had a balloon stomach. but then again I'm not experienced. she did have cloudy blue eyes when I bought her, while her sister has bright yellow. I feel terrible, I shouldve done something when I saw her peeling 2 days ago..


I just read it spreads by touching.. they would lay on each other all the time. is there anything I can do for the remaining frog?
 

midna

Member
it's okay, don't best yourself up about it. these things happen. I made some dumb mistakes when I had frogs and got mine infected, too. :/ i'm not sure if it's chytrid, though. it's very strange because the only thing odd with your frog was the shedding and maybe the eyes. but sometimes these things just happen and remain a mystery.

i'd do a large water change, I think. to be safe, you could do a total cleanup of your tank using vinegar and bleach, but I hate doing that because i'm always afraid of residual bleach no matter how much I rinse, soak, and air dry (i've been doing this for the past several weeks after my frogs died).

if it was chytrid, then you can do a lamisil bath for 10 days for your frog to get rid of the fungus. you could try treating them with apI general body cure or tetracycline (i've only been able to find this online) if it was bacterial.

you might want to create a new thread about what happened and maybe some others can reply with their ideas. I know Lucy and maggie thecat are good at this stuff, as well as some others on this forum. I would hold off from buying any new frogs until you're sure everything is okay. good luck!!!!
 
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babiimoore

Member
will she be lonely alone? ive read theyre social.
 

midna

Member
ideally, yes, you should have more than one frog, but you can get more later. right now i'd focus on making sure she's healthy, so she won't infect any other frogs you may get, or the other way around! I kept my frog alone for 5 years before I finally got him a mate.
 
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Lucy

Moderator
Member
Aw, I'm so sorry.
Sometimes these things happen and we never know why. I'd assume something was already sick if she cloudy eyes when you got her.
Some do lamsil bathes as a precaution when they buy them. I haven't but that mean either is right or wrong.

Midna is right, they are social but they do ok on their own as well. Wouldn't be my choice though.

Curious, what kind of food dish do you have? I once used a painted, glazed dish (for hermit crabs I think, it's been a while) , almost poisoned all my frogs that way. They can leach toxins in the water.
Frogs absorb everything through their skin so any toxins does right to their organs.

Maybe Maggie can chime in when she logs on.
 
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babiimoore

Member
my other frog is peeling noo
what do I do?
and I use a glass dish.
 

midna

Member
dang, she really doesn't look ill from the pictures. did you put her in a new tank with new water? can you get any of the meds I listed, maybe?
 
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babiimoore

Member
she didnt look ill earlier and then I came home from work and the top of her head is pale and peeling like her sister had on her back.. I can't take a picture because the tank light is off. does she need a new tank? I did almost a full water change. I don't have anywhere to put her, I already have guppy fry in a container and a sick betta I just rescued in another container.
 

midna

Member
i'm really not sure what else can be done at this point :/ maybe get some rest and start again tomorrow. you probably won't need to do another water change so soon but if you want to be on the safe side, do another tomorrow (maybe 50%). if it's something internal or a fungus with spores then i'm afraid I don't know how successful water changes will be without medication or sterilization. have you checked the parameters lately to make sure it's not from an ammonia spike? I know you said earlier that it was at .25.
 
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babiimoore

Member
midna said:
i'm really not sure what else can be done at this point :/ maybe get some rest and start again tomorrow. you probably won't need to do another water change so soon but if you want to be on the safe side, do another tomorrow (maybe 50%). if it's something internal or a fungus with spores then i'm afraid I don't know how successful water changes will be without medication or sterilization. have you checked the parameters lately to make sure it's not from an ammonia spike? I know you said earlier that it was at .25.
if it was an ammonia spike (I did a water change minutes after I found her) then its fixed now, ill check but it should all be fresh water. at this point I will just do daily water changes, wait and hope. thank you for the help.
 

midna

Member
I really hope she pulls through!!!
 

Fizzfrog

Member
How is your frog doing now? If she's peeling that could indicate chytrid, especially if she's showing other symptoms such as thrashing at the surface/trying to get out of the water, constantly hiding, etc. I created a thread (you can access it here) a few months ago with more info on symptoms and how to treat it - a bunch of the info came from Lucy and maggie thecat who know a lot about ADFs and Lucy's thread can be accessed here (there's also a link to it on my chytrid thread). Chytrid can survive in water without a host for many weeks, so you'll need to disinfect your entire tank (including the filter) before you put her or any other ADFs back into it, or even better, get a brand new tank, substrate, filter + filter media, etc. I really do suggest attempting the treatment, since if it really is chytrid there's not a very good chance at all that she'll make it on her own.
 
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babiimoore

Member
could this infect my shrimp? I have have ghost shrimp in the tank.
 

midna

Member
nope, chytrid only affects amphibians. if that's what it is, anyway.
 
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babiimoore

Member
if I get more frogs, could he infect them? like could he carry it but it not affect him?
 

midna

Member
hm.... I suppose it could. ideally you're supposed to get rid of or sanitize anything that's been in contact with chytrid. it takes about 3 months for the spores to die, so you could quarantine him or the frogs for at least 3 months.
 
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babiimoore

Member
ill just wait three months and get the frogs from a real breeder and not a local store. I went to a different petsmart yesterday to check out the bettas and there was a whole tank of peeling, white frogs. I let the employee know and they didnt care.
 

Fizzfrog

Member
That's unfortunate, but I'm not surprised. Chytrid is all over chain stores right now

Yes, frogs that have been exposed to chytrid can carry it without symptoms for 2-3 months (the time depends on temperature of the water, stress levels, etc.). Bleaching will kill any spores, as will drying completely for at least 24 hours.
 

midna

Member
let me know where you decide to get some frogs from! and show us photos if you're still around. is the last one still holding up??
 
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babiimoore

Member
midna said:
let me know where you decide to get some frogs from! and show us photos if you're still around. is the last one still holding up??
she isn't doing very good. breaks my heart
 

maggie thecat

Member
Hi, sorry about your frog. If she is still with you immediately start Lamisil treatment.

The spray, not the cream, is available in the foot care aisle of most grocery stores and pharmacies.

10 squirts. 400 ml treated water. 5 minutes. And you may wish to follow in a bath of diluted Pedialyte . A Pyrex cup with a lid makes a good treatment container.

The tank will harbor spores. "Nuking" it with a bleach wash followed by air drying is generally recommended . Destroy substrate and anything that cannot handle bleach.
 
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babiimoore

Member
maggie thecat said:
Hi, sorry about your frog. If she is still with you immediately start Lamisil treatment.

The spray, not the cream, is available in the foot care aisle of most grocery stores and pharmacies.

10 squirts. 400 ml treated water. 5 minutes. And you may wish to follow in a bath of diluted Pedialyte . A Pyrex cup with a lid makes a good treatment container.

The tank will harbor spores. "Nuking" it with a bleach wash followed by air drying is generally recommended . Destroy substrate and anything that cannot handle bleach.
will this burn her because her skin is peeling?
 

maggie thecat

Member
Have you ever had athlete's foot?

Or ringworm?

I should imagine that the effect is not dissimilar, but preferable to being dead, which is the normal outcome of a chytrid infection.

That may have come across a bit harsh, but I don't know how frogs experience discomfort or pain. I just know how I felt when I treated both those ailments. Also the relief when my skin wasn't an itching reddened mess.
 

Fizzfrog

Member
I agree, I'd start treatment immediately. Chytrid has an extremely high mortality rate with African dwarf frogs and while I don't know the specifics of frog pain either, it can't be a peaceful way to go - they start thrashing at the surface of the water and try to get out of the tank, they stop eating, etc. They do, however, regain their appetite and alertness as Lamisil treatment continues, and I take this to mean that they feel much better.
 
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babiimoore

Member
I am going to start treatment today, I just wanted to make sure that if she acts like shes in pain while in the treated water ill know its okay and normal. is this treatment always affective?

I'm going to bleach the tank, and get rid of decorations and gravel. I have a sponge filter, is there anyway to clean it or should I just buy a new sponge
 

maggie thecat

Member
There are no guarantees in life. It's a serious infection. All you can do is treat aggressively and hope for the best.

Ditch the sponge. It's a potential source of re-infection.
 
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babiimoore

Member
should I also relocate the ghost shrimp? can he go into my bettas 15 gallon?

which one
 

midna

Member
get the second one, not the spray powder. good luck!

when you decide to get more frogs, do this treatment for 10 days as soon as you get them.
 
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babiimoore

Member
can I put my shrimp in my 15 gallon betta tank? also, I have some grass and a moss ball in the frogs tank, do I have to throw that away? it was pretty expensive
 
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babiimoore

Member
is this okay???
 
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babiimoore

Member
 

midna

Member
yep, that's the one I got. you may need to use more than 10 sprays since it's not the squirting type that's in the instructions.

unfortunately you'll have to get rid of the plants your shrimp will be okay. I don't think the betta will eat them but it's always a possibility. luckily they only cost about 25 cents (maybe more, depending on where you live or where you got them).
 
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babiimoore

Member
okay ill throw out the plants. I have two other shrimps in my bettas 15 gallon I just wanted to make sure he wouldnt spread the disease or anything.
 
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babiimoore

Member
I just got home and she was on her back, I immediately brought her up to the surface so she could breath if she needed to. I then put her into the solution and held her at the top incase she needed air. shes now in a container of fresh water and she doesn't move unless I put my hand under her, shes just floating there. I don't know if she’ll make it..
 

midna

Member
if she's on her back, it's not a good sign. i'm really sorry, but you might be too late. *hugs* you did what you could.
 
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babiimoore

Member
when I put my hand under her she wraps her arms around my fingers and looks up.
 

midna

Member
aww!! poor baby she's much more responsive than mine were. i'm so sorry. maybe there's still hope. it's good you were able to get the lamisil. I really hope she makes it!! it's so heart breaking. make sure she's comfortable.

is peeling the only physical sign of sickness she has?
 
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babiimoore

Member
yes, and shes a tiny bit pale. she only moves if I touch her.. its like its hard for her to move.. I don't know.

her behavior was never weird up until now either.. seemed like a happy frog
 
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babiimoore

Member
she has passed. ):
 

midna

Member
oh no, i'm so sorry ;; at least she's no longer suffering
 
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babiimoore

Member
my boyfriend could see how upset I was and he came home after work with three frogs and some gravel.. I wasn't expecting more frogs for awhile but here they are. they all look pretty healthy, one of them is sorta pale. I had thrown all my gravel, decorations and plants away last night and bleached the tank. should I give these new guys lamisil baths for the next 10 days? if they do have the disease, wouldnt the baths not even do anything because theyd go right back into the tank after?
 
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babiimoore

Member
also, they keep balling theirselves up. I never saw my other frogs do this. are they cold? their new heater will be here in 2 days but the temp in the tank says its 77, I don't really trust my PH pen thermometer tho.
 

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