Advice On Media Order?

Hello all,
I'm installing a new canister filter, its been awhile since I had one and I can't recall how I set up the media order last time. I have done some research but I would like reassurance I'm on the right track here. I have 3 media trays, each tray came with a layer of white sponge,1 layer of bio balls, 1 layer of ceramic rings and 1 layer of carbon.
My research says the top layer should be mechanical media, the middle layer biological media and the bottom layer chemical media, is this correct?
My take on this is as follows:
Top layer I would remove sponge media and place bio balls in that tray.
(My thinking to remove sponge media is most debris will catch in bio balls and then the rest will fall through into the ceramic rings to make the colonies)
Middle layer I would have sponge media on bottom of tray and ceramic rings on top of tray.
Bottom layer I would have sponge media on bottom of tray and carbon media on top of tray.
How does that sound gents + ladies?

 

You want the flow of water to hit mechanical first, bio second, then chemical last, so ideally... Ceramic rings, coarse sponge to fine sponge, filter floss, bio media, finally carbon (if used). Those plastic bio-balls aren't really that great for the real estate they take up in a canister... More designed for a trickle or a sump.

 

Note that canisters can have water hit the bottom or top of the container first. I have an Eheim 2215 and water flows into the bottom and out of the top, so from bottom to top my media goes mechanical (rings then coarse sponge), biological ceramic, fine sponge, and last chemical (carbon) on top.

 

Note that canisters can have water hit the bottom or top of the container first. I have an Eheim 2215 and water flows into the bottom and out of the top, so from bottom to top my media goes mechanical (rings then coarse sponge), biological ceramic, fine sponge, and last chemical (carbon) on top.

Ideally you want all your mechanical in line... ceramic rings, coarse and fine sponges and the filter floss are all mechanical as they physically catch debris, you don't want the bio taking part in that process. Each layer is going to filter finer and finer particles so your biomedia isn't getting any or at least as little debris as possible to keep it from clogging up.
Doesn't help the confusion when companies who manufacture them even advise the order with the filter floss or polishing pad going after your biomedia... It's still going to filter water yes but it's using the bio as a mechanical media of sorts since it will be catching all of the debris that manages to pass through the large pad that'd normally be caught by the polishing pad. Maybe there's extra money to be had in that order somehow, donno why they do it that way.

 

HI all, thank you for your replies.. I went with the first reply by Hanra85 2.5 hours ago..
I ended up in a big spot of bother, I put the hoses on the canister the wrong way, when I worked out what I had done I took the hoses off the joint and all of a sudden the tank starts to empty through the hoses and onto the floor! Took me a few moments to work out to hold them above water level so they would stop gushing out water. Then I started to panic, my phone was at the other end of the house so I couldn't call for help, I was just standing there holding the hoses. I figured a way to wedge them under the LED light, then called friends for help. Its taken until now to fix everything, what a mess

 

HI all, thank you for your replies.. I went with the first reply by Hanra85 2.5 hours ago..
I ended up in a big spot of bother, I put the hoses on the canister the wrong way, when I worked out what I had done I took the hoses off the joint and all of a sudden the tank starts to empty through the hoses and onto the floor! Took me a few moments to work out to hold them above water level so they would stop gushing out water. Then I started to panic, my phone was at the other end of the house so I couldn't call for help, I was just standing there holding the hoses. I figured a way to wedge them under the LED light, then called friends for help. Its taken until now to fix everything, what a mess

Oh no... What a nightmare!ead:
That's a mistake you'll only make once though fortunately. Reminds me of an experience I had years ago.. I just moved into a new apartment, wasn't aware the tap in the utility sink had no pressure regulation... The pressure was so high that it blew the fitting off my python hose when I tried to close the line on the tank end. That's almost 50' of hose the sink is three rooms away, the hose is now too short to just stuff into the tank while I run to shut it off and I'm home alone. Kinking it was impossible, it slowed the flow some but with the pressure it wasn't stopping all is it and it just made the hose start to build up pressure and bubble in other areas.. was in such a panic but I managed to get the hose shut down and spent the next few hours cleaning before the wife got home... So much water though... You never forget your first good flood haha.

 

HI all, thank you for your replies.. I went with the first reply by Hanra85 2.5 hours ago..
I ended up in a big spot of bother, I put the hoses on the canister the wrong way, when I worked out what I had done I took the hoses off the joint and all of a sudden the tank starts to empty through the hoses and onto the floor! Took me a few moments to work out to hold them above water level so they would stop gushing out water. Then I started to panic, my phone was at the other end of the house so I couldn't call for help, I was just standing there holding the hoses. I figured a way to wedge them under the LED light, then called friends for help. Its taken until now to fix everything, what a mess

Ha! I understand completely. The first time I tried to clean my canister it was a disaster - water on the floor, water on the walls, I was soaked, and I couldn't get it primed. There is a learning curve but it gets easier with practice.

 

hanra85
Haha sounds like you had fun too, not that its fun at the time, I broke out in a sweat and was in a right panic last night. Thankfully my friends were neighbours and were on the scene fast, so much for a smooth installation lol

JenC
I was also soaked haha, before I worked out to hold the hose above tank level I had my finger over the end and it was spraying everywhere!

Everything seems to be running smoothly this morning though, I adjusted the spray bar so its above water level like the instructions said, its quiet loud falling on the water though, will take a bit of getting use to. When the spray bar was under the water the canister was making a gushing sound, so I figure that's why there is a picture with a red cross saying don't have it under the water.
I'm running it beside my older HOB filter, I think I will give it at least 2 weeks before I remove the HOB filter altogether. I accidently fed my fish this morning before I could grab some water for a test to see if adding the canister had affected my water parameters.

 

hanra85
Haha sounds like you had fun too, not that its fun at the time, I broke out in a sweat and was in a right panic last night. Thankfully my friends were neighbours and were on the scene fast, so much for a smooth installation lol

JenC
I was also soaked haha, before I worked out to hold the hose above tank level I had my finger over the end and it was spraying everywhere!

Everything seems to be running smoothly this morning though, I adjusted the spray bar so its above water level like the instructions said, its quiet loud falling on the water though, will take a bit of getting use to. When the spray bar was under the water the canister was making a gushing sound, so I figure that's why there is a picture with a red cross saying don't have it under the water.
I'm running it beside my older HOB filter, I think I will give it at least 2 weeks before I remove the HOB filter altogether. I accidently fed my fish this morning before I could grab some water for a test to see if adding the canister had affected my water parameters.

I have mine all submerged, can you position the spray bar so it splashes the water onto the glass instead of directly into the water.

 

I have mine all submerged, can you position the spray bar so it splashes the water onto the glass instead of directly into the water.

Do you mean turn the spray bar to the back? Like, facing behind its self pointing at the back wall of the tank? I just looked at it, maybe I could face it down more, I currently have it facing up and its falling like a water fall. I have totally forgot how I used my last canister filters, bit embarrassing lol

 

Everything seems to be running smoothly this morning though, I adjusted the spray bar so its above water level like the instructions said, its quiet loud falling on the water though, will take a bit of getting use to. When the spray bar was under the water the canister was making a gushing sound, so I figure that's why there is a picture with a red cross saying don't have it under the water.

I'd try to set it so the holes in the spray bar are just below the water line. You can rotate it to direct the flow up or down, though you obviously don't want it going too high. You've had enough water on the floor already.

The gushing sound is probably air bubbles in the pump. Gently rocking the canister a bit can sometimes dislodge them and get them pumped up out of the canister. Work at it a while and you should be able to get it working pretty silently.

 

HI JayH
Thank you for the advice, I will set it just as you said because it currently sounds like I have a water fall in my dining room, and your right, I don't want more water on the floor at this stage lol
I'll also do as suggested with the canister, I will wait to see if the gushing sound comes back first

 

I also have my spray bar just under the water line, pointed up a bit toward the surface. As long as there's surface movement (ripples) it should be good. But your instructions specifically tell you not to position it that way? That's interesting. What kind of filter is it?

I'm running it beside my older HOB filter, I think I will give it at least 2 weeks before I remove the HOB filter altogether.

When you're ready to decommission the HOB you can put its media in the canister too. It'll help preserve the beneficial bacteria and will be handy if you need to throw together a quick hospital or QT tank.

 

SabrinaBrook , what model canister do you have?

I concur with the other members so keep their spray bars submerged below the water line.

I keep mine under the water line and mounted across the side wall and pointing toward the opposite end. Usually I keep the holes pointed slightly above being parallel with the water line. That way the water discharging agitates the surface while flowing across to the other side.








Just like the other members mentioned, when I want to blow detritus and uneaten food off the substrate and let it get sucked in by the intake, I will rotate the water flow at a 45° angle pointing down and across to the other side, or at a 45° angle pointing toward the side glass. The water flows down then across the substrate kicking up anything that has settled.

 

I also have my spray bar just under the water line, pointed up a bit toward the surface. As long as there's surface movement (ripples) it should be good. But your instructions specifically tell you not to position it that way? That's interesting. What kind of filter is it?
I brought it off ebay, Dynamic brand canister filter 1400 liters an hour + UV light... I have positioned the spray bar exactly like you have yours, the canister keeps making weird noises, I have rocked it from side to side like suggested but nothing happens, still the gushing and churning.. Not sure what else to do.


When you're ready to decommission the HOB you can put its media in the canister too. It'll help preserve the beneficial bacteria and will be handy if you need to throw together a quick hospital or QT tank.

Super idea, thank you

Islandvic
Hi, thank you for helping too. The brand is a Dynamic Power Canister filter 1400 liters an hour + UV light 35 watts, I brought it off ebay. Its not one of the well known canister filters, it was on sale from $150 and I got it for $84...
I can't seem to stop the gushing noises and churning, its every now and then it does it. But I managed to get my spray bar like Jens and yours today as suggested by JayH too... Its no longer sounding like a water fall, besides the HOB sound

 

Islandvic
Hi, thank you for helping too. The brand is a Dynamic Power Canister filter 1400 liters an hour + UV light 35 watts, I brought it off ebay. Its not one of the well known canister filters, it was on sale from $150 and I got it for $84...
I can't seem to stop the gushing noises and churning, its every now and then it does it. But I managed to get my spray bar like Jens and yours today as suggested by JayH too... Its no longer sounding like a water fall, besides the HOB sound

Under the water line should be fine. I pulled up its reviews and that's how most people positioned it, and that's actually how it's placed in the company's photos too.

My canister sometimes gurgles a bit, then it sounds like a rush of water comes out. I'm pretty sure it's just air I didn't remove from the unit. Rocking it back and forth (tipping it like it's falling over one way then the other, kind of hard) on the floor can help get trapped bubbles up and out.

 

SabrinaBrook , I looked up your model of canister and it appears to be based in the SunSun brand available in the States.

That brand will market their products under different names depending on which region they are being sold.

Although inexpensive, they are reliable and usually give trouble free operation.

If you have some "gushing and churning noises", I would wager there is air getting into the system.

Possible points of entry are any connections between hoses and the valves, hoses and the intake/discharge hose assemblies, where the motorhead clamps down to the canister body, or where the "quick release valve taps" plug into the motorhead.

When you have time, an assistant to help and some extra towels, shut everything down and recheck that everything is seated correctly.

Also, try to find some food-grade 100% silicone lube/grease. It comes in a small tube or jar. Many brands are available and can be found online or at local hardware store in the plumbing section. Sometimes it is sold as "Faucet Grease".

100% Silicone lube/grease can be used on all the rubber o-rings, seals, gaskets and connection points. It is aquarium safe.

This will help ensure your connections points stay water tight, and keeps the rubber seals pliable and in good condition.

Also, if the intake/discharge tube assemblies use a barb fitting for the hose to slip over, try wrapping some white teflon plumbers tape around the barb fitting, then slip the hose over it.

This will also ensure a good seal, preventing air from entering or water from escaping.

Also, those filters are designed where the water enters the canister and flows down the shaft to the bottom, them flows through the media baskets upward and then back out to the tank.

The bottom basket should house your foams and fine floss media.

Middle basket either more foams or your biological media.

Top basket, more biological media and as an option your chemical media.

Your bag of carbon is 100% optional and not a necessity.

A question about the included media you had mentioned......

You said there was "white sponge" media included. Did it feel like actual coarse foam sponge, or was it a fine poly fiber type material?

I ask because I am thinking the white pad was the fine filter floss pad that usually is not re-usable. If so, it is made to catch all the fine muck flowing through the canister. It might can be rinsed off and reused once or twice until it degrades.

If this is the case, I would recommend trying to find generic 20ppI foam sponge that is for the "dynamic power" brand, also known as SunSun, Greech, All Pond Solutions or Polar Aurora. If Ebay or Amazon where you are at has generic foam pads that fit those other brands, it will fit your model as well.

PPI stands for "pores per inch" and it's how foam sponge is rated. More PPI equals a fine foam sponge. Less PPI equals a more coarse foam sponge.

20ppI is a coarse/medium type foam and good for the first layer of mechanical media.

The fine filter floss media can be stacked on top. Polyfiber sold in bags of loose material or batting (for use in pillows and quilts) is available in craft stores and makes for excellent and cost effective fine mechanical media to catch all the fine muck that passes through the foam sponges. I use it and many members on the forum use it.

If there is room in the void space between the very bottom of the canister and the bottom of the 1st basket, you can throw the plastic bio-balls down in there.

As water is channeled to the bottom via the inner shaft, it will hit that void space full of the plastic bio-balls before rising upward through the baskets. The bio-balls will catch some of the larger muck and let it settle out down in the bottom. This allows to the media in the first basket to stay a little cleaner.

Here is a video of YouTuber "Ben Ochart" servicing his SunSun 704b, basically the 4 basket version of your canister. I have subscribed to his channel for a while now and he always gives som good tips and advice.

 

If you have some "gushing and churning noises", I would wager there is air getting into the system.

It just occurred to me that the high end Fluval filters actually turn themselves off for a few minutes every so often just to avoid this issue. This allows the air to float to the top of the canister and then get ejected when the pump turns back on.

If the pump is being very stubborn about gurgling, you could try turning it off, then gently rocking it back and forth, then letting it sit still for a few minutes before turning it back on. The idea is to get all the trapped air to the top of the canister so it can be ejected by the pump.

Also, try to find some food-grade 100% silicone lube/grease. It comes in a small tube or jar. Many brands are available and can be found online or at local hardware store in the plumbing section. Sometimes it is sold as "Faucet Grease".

Dow Molykote 111 is one such brand. 100% silicone, approved for use on food preparation machines. You can get a tube of it that should last a lifetime for about $15 in the U.S. on Amazon. Smaller containers are available for less money but the tube is the best $/ml deal.

 

HI JenC Islandvic JayH

Thank you all for helping me, I really appreciate this..

I am wondering if I have found the air bubble in canister culprit, this model has a Dirty water pipe as pictured below, the round bit of plastic turns around with water flow and water drains down the pipe into the main intake pipe going into the canister filter, could this be where air is getting in? Should I block this pipe? it came with a nozzle to cap the end. Is this Dirty water pipe needed?

Snapchat-1864460469

• DecoyCat
• Jul 31, 2019

As for the connections, they were well greased when I opened them from the packaging, I noticed excess grease around the part that connects to the filter that the hoses connect to too. But, I will get myself a tube as suggested for in the future, I'm sure I will need it.

The white sponge media that came with the filter was fine poly fiber, it wasn't course.. I looked at accessories for this filter and I can order blue or black sponge media that is again more course fiber, should I order some of those?

I had no idea the water flowed down the canister that way, so I have the media inside the filter positioned the wrong way with the carbon on the bottom tray. I will have to fix that today, while I have it stopped I can check all fittings are secure too. And there is no room under bottom tray to place the bio balls..

I think I answered everything, thanks again guys, love the help.

 

HI Breena, have a look at this video and you will have no problems.

 

HI johnbirg
Thank you for this, I will watch it soon, my canister filter is now out of action since 2am this morning, I had to empty my big tank in fear it was going to break, I had a condensation leak and it swelled the top of the stand under the tank! I heard a loud noise and took no chances emptying the tank immediately. My 18 fish are now crammed into a 60 liter hospital tank, just my luck?

 

Geez, you're having lots of luck and all of it bad. Sorry to hear about your tank.
Can you rectify the problem?

 

johnbirg its only just going 9am here right now, I'm going to start ringing around soon to see what I can do to fix this issue. My poor fish

 

HI Breena,
Hope you were able to resolve this issue.
When you say a condensation leak do you mean there was condensation under the hood and it ran down the outside of the tank?
That shouldn't happen if it's the correct hood for the tank you have.
Anyway hope you are able to get it up and running asap.

 

HI johnbirg
The tank only has glass lids, the condensation leak was coming from the top corner clasp of the tank(that should be glued tight but is loose), going under it and then down the outside of the tank and then under the tank causing the wooden stand to swell in places. The manufacture of the tank is replacing the tank and also stand parts, hopefully in the next couple of weeks. In the mean time I brought a new tank for my fish and they seem happy at the moment.
I watched the canister filter video and changed my baskets around the same, thank you..

 

Hey Sabrina I have used those filters. If it came with 3 of those white poly things only use one. Use it in the first basket as the first thing the water goes thru. If you use it in every basket as the manufacturer suggests your flow rate will be drastically reduced. Yes I’ve been there. I’d stay a 50% reduction and that was clean. Couldn’t imagine how much flow would be lost as they got dirty.

 

Hey Sabrina I have used those filters. If it came with 3 of those white poly things only use one. Use it in the first basket as the first thing the water goes thru. If you use it in every basket as the manufacturer suggests your flow rate will be drastically reduced. Yes I’ve been there. I’d stay a 50% reduction and that was clean. Couldn’t imagine how much flow would be lost as they got dirty.

Yes, been there & covered that. But first the tank needs to stop being a problem.

HI johnbirg
The tank only has glass lids, the condensation leak was coming from the top corner clasp of the tank(that should be glued tight but is loose), going under it and then down the outside of the tank and then under the tank causing the wooden stand to swell in places. The manufacture of the tank is replacing the tank and also stand parts, hopefully in the next couple of weeks. In the mean time I brought a new tank for my fish and they seem happy at the moment.
I watched the canister filter video and changed my baskets around the same, thank you..

Good news about the manufacturer coming to the party.

Good news about the manufacturer coming to the party.

Hope all your fish are okay. Seems a long time to have the problem resolved.
Hope you managed to get some sleep.
Thinking of you.

 

86 ssinit after watching the video I put the 3 poly white sponge media in the one basket, its in the middle layer. I wondered why the flow is so slow now, this would also be making my filter work harder right? Are you saying I should only use 1 layer of the white sponge in the basket? If so I need to remove 2 layers and discard them? I also wondered why it was so hard to start the canister the first time too, it took 30 minutes of pressing the pump button and turning the filter on and off to get it going... The water flow from the spray bar is very slow at the moment.

johnbirg I did get a small amount of sleep last night thankfully, this ordeal has really stressed me out. The good news is the fish seem very happy in the new tank, the Discus are not fighting like they had been which is fantastic. The manufacture has been really good replacing the glass body and 2 panels of the stand also. Hoping for better days ahead

 

It shouldn't have taken that much trouble to prime the filter and get it running.

Are the valves all the way open?

Also, before putting the top motorhead back onto the canister body, did you first fill up the canister with water?

There may be air still in the canister or hoses.

Have you tried rocking the canister back and forth, then left and right, while its running?

This should burp the remaining air out of the system.

 

Sounds like it’s all working out for you . Yes I only use one and I put it in the lowest basket. Not as the first but on the top of that basket. The first sponge is course second is medium and than that white poly pad. I saved the other two and used them when the first was dirty.

 

HI Islandvic Yes the valves are fully closed on the canister, meaning they would be fully open. Yes I filled the canister up with water before trying to prime it, pumping. I did rock it after it got going to get rid of the air, it has been running silently ever since but I'm not sure the water flow is right. I just took this video just now and you can see the flow.

86 ssinit ok cool, I will have to order the course and medium course media pads from ebay next week as due to having to buy a new tank I have very little money to spend on the fish right now. So I will have to get by with the filter the way it is and hope it doesn't damage the motor on the pump with the way I have it set up currently. You can see the flow from the spray bar in the video above

 

Filter will work and the slower flow will probably be better for tank. As long as the waters clean your good. Your still going to be doing water changes for the discus so it should be fine as is. But remove those 2 pads when you install it on the bigger tank.

Yes all 3 of them on top of each other will definitely slow down the flow and make it hard to prime.

 

I just had a thought, I'm going to leave that canister filter on the new tank, when I get my big replacement tank back I'm going to buy a new canister filter for it, so I will be able to use those 2 spare pads to kick start the cycle in the replacement tank and new canister

 

HI Breena,
The flow looks okay.
As we have been trying to explain the bottom tray needs a coarse, medium and one white fine pad. That's it. The remaining baskets have your media and need to be filled to capacity while allowing the baskets to seal properly.
If you are going to get another canister filter have a look at the one in the link below which is the same as the one I am running in my 300 litre tank. They are a really great filter.
Biopro External Canister Filter 2200 UV
Hope you have a smooth transition.

This is my 300 litre tank.

 

Johnbirg that is the filter she has. They run with many different names and colors. Here they are called sunsun and are much cheaper. But they are good filters. Don’t leave the uv light on all the time. They say it drys up the seals. I would use mine after water changes. I’d leave it on for about a day to kill anything that came out of the substrate.

 

HI johnbirg and 86 ssinit
Your tank looks great John, I would be stressed with a tank of that size, 300 liters, wow lol
I will order the other sponge media next week, enough for both canisters, and I will make the changes when the new canister is brought and I'm setting up the replacement tank, probably in 2 weeks time.
Ssinit, I had not read before that the UV light dries up the seals, that's the first I hear it. Ive had one of these canisters with UV before and always ran the UV light never having an issue, but I will keep this in mind.
Everything is going well, fish still happy, I'm so amazed they are getting along, no fighting at all!
Thank you again for the advice and help guys

 

The UV bulb has a tubular cover which stops UV rays from getting to the rest of the filter. I run mine 24/7 and has been running for ages without any problems. I spoke to aquaholics and the cover should be replaced at the same time as you replace the bulb ( about 12 months)

 

This is what the UV light allegedly does in the SunSun filters when the UV runs 24/7, the baskets start to deteriorate. Since the UV light has a separate cord, many people plug it into a timer, so it only runs for 4-8 hrs a day.

 

johnbirg
Thanks for the info, I will also be ordering spare UV bulbs and covers as soon as I can afford to. If you would like to see photos and videos of my tank and fish please go over to the Discus area of the forum and see my thread called Trials and Tribulations again?.....

 

This is what the UV light allegedly does in the SunSun filters when the UV runs 24/7, the baskets start to deteriorate. Since the UV light has a separate cord, many people plug it into a timer, so it only runs for 4-8 hrs a day.

Hi,
Had a careful look at the videos and notice one big difference between your filters and mine. As you pulled the top off I see that the UV bulb is exposed and does not have the protective sleeve that shields the rest of the filter from the UV rays. So I guess it will have the same effect as leaving all the parts out in the sun. There are obviously differences between the filters even though everyone keeps saying that they are all the same and just rebranded. They are not the same. I have checked several times with the supplier and the sleeve will definitely protect the rest of the filter components. Mine isn't due for a service for about 6 weeks but when I service it I will show the internals and setup.

Just had a thought - maybe that's why they call them Sun Suns LOL.