Advice on how to convert a tank from gravel to soil please

Hi, all. I currently have a 46 gallon bowfront planted tank holding about 20 live bearers with a Fluval 3.0 light and CO2 pumped in. And I currently have the plants in gravel and am feeding them with Flourish and root tabs.... In case it is relevant, my pH locally is 7.8 or so (really wish it was lower) and the water is fairly hard.

I don't want to do that any longer (tired of the look, and not happy with how the plants refuse to stay in place), and am planning on switching the gravel gradually over to a substrate/soil base so I can do some aquascaping. I could use some opinions on my preliminary plan, and answers to some questions about what to get. (Sorry, but this post might be long....)

A. Substrate - I already picked up two bags of the Caribsea Eco-planted black substrate at my LFS as it was highly recommended. Any concerns with this? I can return it if need be.

B. Soil - I am planning on putting the soil on top of the substrate (eco-complete or something else). If this isn't right, let me know.

1. Amount - I was told I should have about 2" depth in the front (NOT including the substrate), as I plan on doing a carpet of some sort. It should slope up to about 6" of depth in the back. Is that right? Too much dirt? Not enough?
2. What soil??? - I got advice that the best aquarium soil to put on top of the substrate is ADA Aqua Soil Ver 2 (9L) that is "Amazonia". Another suggestion was Fluval Plant and Shrimp Stratum but I was told the ADA was better. If something else is better, what are other options? I will probably buy it from Amazon or somewhere else on line - it doesn't seem like the LFS or chains near me carry soil. Amazon does have a 9L bag (no idea how much dirt that actually is) and some other options including one called Landen which is 40 lbs for $130.
3. Process - I have also gotten guidance that the dirt will cause ammonia problems when I put it in an existing tank, so I am planning to make use of my currently empty 10gallon quarantine tank. I figure I can put bags of the dirt in there, cycle the tank to get rid of the ammonia in the soil and then put it in the main tank a section at a time, basically doing the main tank in phases and transplanting the current plants into the new soil as I get to that part, removing the gravel from that section at the same time. I don't have a practical way to cycle THAT much dirt all at once in the 10g and can't remove all the fish to that tiny tank for the time it would take to cycle the main aquarium

C. Additives - I was told that a good way to start growing the right bacteria in the soil was to add Bacter AE to the tank. Is that a good idea? Is there something better to use instead? Should I do it while cycling the dirt in the 10g tank or after I put it in the main tank some time from now?

Thanks for reading this. Any help would be MUCH appreciated.

 

i would slowly remove the gravel and start replacing it with the soil substrate. also, i don´t think the soil will cause an ammonia spike.

 

I don’t really have experience with much soil, but I have had experience with switching out substrate. If you wanted, you could take all your gravel and put it in a nylon stocking or pantyhose, add your soil in and leave the bag of gravel in the tank for a few weeks. That way you can seed your soil without the hassle of gravel mixing into it.

Edit: ignore my eco complete comment if you saw it. For some reason I didn't make the connection.

Depending on how expensive “aquarium” soil is, I’ve heard of plenty of people just using regular soil made for plants, just I think it was organic? I can’t really remember.

 

A. Substrate - I already picked up two bags of the Caribsea Eco-planted black substrate at my LFS as it was highly recommended. Any concerns with this? I can return it if need be.

Eco-complete works. Soil works better.

B. Soil - I am planning on putting the soil on top of the substrate (eco-complete or something else). If this isn't right, let me know.

It is better to put your inert substrate on top of your soil. So, get some soil and cap it with the eco-complete (or whatever other inert substrate you like). Soil is very messy if you don't cap it with something else, unless you buy those expensive baked soils like Aquasoil.

1. Amount - I was told I should have about 2" depth in the front (NOT including the substrate), as I plan on doing a carpet of some sort. It should slope up to about 6" of depth in the back. Is that right? Too much dirt? Not enough?

Sounds fine.

1. What soil??? - I got advice that the best aquarium soil to put on top of the substrate is ADA Aqua Soil Ver 2 (9L) that is "Amazonia". Another suggestion was Fluval Plant and Shrimp Stratum but I was told the ADA was better.

I think Aquasoil is probably the best, but Stratum is good too.

1. If something else is better, what are other options?

Which soil is best for your tank depends on things like price, content, messiness, and how many water changes you're willing to do after set up. If you're capping your soil, there's no need to buy the expensive stuff. Regular unfertilized, organic, potting soil will work very well too...it's just messy if it's uncapped or when you pull up your plants. If you think you'll fiddle with your tanks a bit, pulling plants up and replanting other plants, you'll be better off buying the expensive stuff. Also, if you're going for the expensive stuff, there's no need to cap it.

Regarding those expensive baked soils, Controsoil is my favorite. Controsoil is heavier than Stratum and doesn't spike ammonia like Aquasoil can.

1. I will probably buy it from Amazon or somewhere else on line - it doesn't seem like the LFS or chains near me carry soil. Amazon does have a 9L bag (no idea how much dirt that actually is) and some other options including one called Landen which is 40 lbs for $130.
2. Process - I have also gotten guidance that the dirt will cause ammonia problems when I put it in an existing tank, so I am planning to make use of my currently empty 10gallon quarantine tank. I figure I can put bags of the dirt in there, cycle the tank to get rid of the ammonia in the soil and then put it in the main tank a section at a time, basically doing the main tank in phases and transplanting the current plants into the new soil as I get to that part, removing the gravel from that section at the same time.

Yes, some soils will raise your ammonia at first. But, moving it from tank to tank is way too much of a pain. I wouldn't recommend doing that at all.

Instead, put your fish into the QT tank. Put your soil in your main tank. Fill the tank with water, and let it run for a day. Then, change out 100% of the water. Do this a couple of times and you should be good to go. Your filter in this tank should already be cycled, so it should handle the little bits of ammonia coming from the soil after a couple 100% water changes.

1. I don't have a practical way to cycle THAT much dirt all at once in the 10g and can't remove all the fish to that tiny tank for the time it would take to cycle the main aquarium

Yeah, don't do that. It sounds like such a headache. See above.

C. Additives - I was told that a good way to start growing the right bacteria in the soil was to add Bacter AE to the tank. Is that a good idea?

Sure, it won't hurt. I'd add some. But, you'll be using the same filter right? If you keep the bacteria in your filter alive, you shouldn't have any real issues.

Is there something better to use instead?

I can't think of anything. Those bacteria additives are probably not even needed...but I'd use some for good measure anyway.

Should I do it while cycling the dirt in the 10g tank or after I put it in the main tank some time from now?

Don't "cycle" the dirt in the 10g. Put the bacteria additive in the main tank once it's up and running with the soil.

Thanks for reading this. Any help would be MUCH appreciated.

 

Why dont you like your water? 7.8 pH hard water is perfect for guppies, the active substrates are not good for them as they increase acidity

 

Why dont you like your water? 7.8 pH hard water is perfect for guppies, the active substrates are not good for them as they increase acidity

I find it is pretty limiting. I like to have a variety of fish in the tank, and almost all tetras need 7.5 or below for example. I'm finding it challenging to find varieties that play nicely with the guppies but also can tolerate a number that high.

 

I find it is pretty limiting. I like to have a variety of fish in the tank, and almost all tetras need 7.5 or below for example. I'm finding it challenging to find varieties that play nicely with the guppies but also can tolerate a number that high.

Tetras need acidic water to breed, but they can survive higher pH water. Guppies cannot survive acidic waters

You can go from low pH to high, but cannot go from high pH fish to low ph

 

It is better to put your inert substrate on top of your soil. So, get some soil and cap it with the eco-complete (or whatever other inert substrate you like). Soil is very messy if you don't cap it with something else, unless you buy those expensive baked soils like Aquasoil. Regarding those expensive baked soils, Controsoil is my favorite. Controsoil is heavier than Stratum and doesn't spike ammonia like Aquasoil can.

Which soil is best for your tank depends on things like price, content, messiness, and how many water changes you're willing to do after set up. If you're capping your soil, there's no need to buy the expensive stuff. Regular unfertilized, organic, potting soil will work very well too...it's just messy if it's uncapped or when you pull up your plants. If you think you'll fiddle with your tanks a bit, pulling plants up and replanting other plants, you'll be better off buying the expensive stuff. Also, if you're going for the expensive stuff, there's no need to cap it.

A few questions:

1) Part of why I'm doing this is I'd like a carpet. Doesn't that mean I'd need to put the dirt on top? I figured I'd put the eco-complete on the bottom 1" or so and then build the aquasoil on top of it from 2" depth in the front to 5" depth in the back, give or take. Wouldn't this be the way to do it?

2) I hate to say it but I'm not really very price conscious about the soil. I spent enough on the good light and CO2 setup that trying to save a few dollars on the last part isn't really something I'm prioritizing. I am a bit worried about the ammonia from the ADA though. Moving all the fish to the quarantine will be pretty tough (that tank needs to be entirely rehabbed - I had a fish in there alone for a long time and it died a week ago. It needs work to be appropriate for fish again....)

3) What do you think of Landen soil?

4) The controsoil seems to have fairly large grains. Would carpet grow on that? Would I be ok putting the Controlsoil right into the main tank if I did a few inches at a time?

5) This is probably a stupid question after all this, but does any dirt I get regardless of which need to be replaced every few years? Or after the initial benefits are gone do I just start adding root tabs and ferts to make up for the dirt being used up?

 

Tetras need acidic water to breed, but they can survive higher pH water. Guppies cannot survive acidic waters

You can go from low pH to high, but cannot go from high pH fish to low ph

I've tried a bunch of different times of tetras, and while the water is fine they last like a day. Theyve come from different stores, too. I think going from the LFS (which is probably at 7.0) to 7.8 might be part of the challenge - they can't handle the jump.

Realistically, how much would the Amazonia drop the pH? I was just assuming that it would be a few tenths of a point but is that wrong?

 

I've tried a bunch of different times of tetras, and while the water is fine they last like a day. Theyve come from different stores, too. I think going from the LFS (which is probably at 7.0) to 7.8 might be part of the challenge - they can't handle the jump.

Realistically, how much would the Amazonia drop the pH? I was just assuming that it would be a few tenths of a point but is that wrong?

That will depend on your water's KH value. The higher the KH the less affect the soil will have on the pH. The soil will deplete KH first, and once it is low, then it will start to affect pH.

Ideally for guppies, you don't want the KH to be depleted at all, as that will start to cause pH changes which is not good for them.

Also, yes these soil do contain ammonia, theyre just sand with some fertilizer mixed in. They're not great for fish in the initial leeching period and Id recommend capping the soil with inert sand to minimize leeching. Changing all this is a big task, you'll essentially be starting a new tank.

 

A few questions:

1) Part of why I'm doing this is I'd like a carpet. Doesn't that mean I'd need to put the dirt on top? I figured I'd put the eco-complete on the bottom 1" or so and then build the aquasoil on top of it from 2" depth in the front to 5" depth in the back, give or take. Wouldn't this be the way to do it?

The only reason I can think of to do this would be to save money on Aquasoil. But, if saving some money is your goal...I wouldn't recommend using aquasoil at all. And, even if you really wanted to use the Aquasoil, there are less expensive options than Eco-Complete to use as filler. Instead of Eco-Complete you could use pretty much anything...like those small lava rocks from garden/landscaping shops.

Ultimately though, the reason I recommended capping the soil with the Eco-Complete (or sand or whatever) is that would allow you to use organic, unfertilized, potting soil--saving you a lot of money.

2) I hate to say it but I'm not really very price conscious about the soil. I spent enough on the good light and CO2 setup that trying to save a few dollars on the last part isn't really something I'm prioritizing.

If money is not a concern, use the Aquasoil. Pile it as deep as you like...no need for the Eco-Complete.

I am a bit worried about the ammonia from the ADA though. Moving all the fish to the quarantine will be pretty tough (that tank needs to be entirely rehabbed - I had a fish in there alone for a long time and it died a week ago. It needs work to be appropriate for fish again....)

While Aquasoil has ammonia in it (the plants love it), it's not a crazy amount. As long as you do a lot of water changes as the tank settles back down, it should be fine. That is, you can replace your existing substrate with Aquasoil and keep your fishes in your main tank (without using the QT tank) so long as you keep up with water changes. Think of it like a fish-in cycle.

3) What do you think of Landen soil?

I haven't used that one, so I have no opinion.

4) The controsoil seems to have fairly large grains. Would carpet grow on that? Would I be ok putting the Controlsoil right into the main tank if I did a few inches at a time?

Controsoil comes in 3 different grain sizes. Even so, I've grown carpets of hair grass and Monte Carlo in the larger size.

5) This is probably a stupid question after all this, but does any dirt I get regardless of which need to be replaced every few years? Or after the initial benefits are gone do I just start adding root tabs and ferts to make up for the dirt being used up?

In a high tech-tank, the soil will become depleted much faster. So, you might not even get a year out of it. But, as you said, this does not mean it needs to be replaced. You'll just need to start adding fertilizers back in using root tabs or Osmocote.

 

The only reason I can think of to do this would be to save money on Aquasoil. But, if saving some money is your goal...I wouldn't recommend using aquasoil at all. And, even if you really wanted to use the Aquasoil, there are less expensive options than Eco-Complete to use as filler. Instead of Eco-Complete you could use pretty much anything...like those small lava rocks from garden/landscaping shops.

In a high tech-tank, the soil will become depleted much faster. So, you might not even get a year out of it. But, as you said, this does not mean it needs to be replaced. You'll just need to start adding fertilizers back in using root tabs or Osmocote.

How about doing something like on the top putting a 1"-2" MIX of ADA and something inert but not too small like Seachem Flourite (happy for recommendations of something black here too). I don't want to do a full cap or sand because I have babies in the tank and bottom feeders and don't want them impacted. I also figure that mixing something inert with the soil will help keep the top layer more porous when it starts to degrade.

Also, won't all that ADA make the kH plunge down and don't live bearers usually need a decent amount of kH?

HOWEVER, I'm also thinking about going with a completely different way of doing this.... Maybe just leave some of the existing big gravel at the bottom. It already has the bacteria etc in it. Cover it with a ton of black sand and then use water fertilizer and root tabs.

 

Whatever you do, use one type of soil as long as you are still working on your scape. If you start off with all of your substrate at once, followed by aquascaping, things get ugly more sooner than later. Hence, I don't even bother mixing substrates.

I use ADA or Tropica aquasoils for jungle style aquascapes only. Both regular size and the smaller powder size (as top layer, for (temporary) aesthetical purpose only to balance proportions).

I use aquasoil for aesthetics, not even for the nutrients. Sure, it's beneficial that a few macros are released so I don't have to dose these for a year or so. After a year, I dose liquid fertilizers only. I don't replace any soil and don't bother using root tabs.

As mentioned by Cherryshrimp420; I would not go in this direction with guppies.

 

You've been given a plethora of information.

If it were my tank, I would either:
1) Leave it as is (if you like the look of your substrate) and focus on the other factors of a successful planted tank.
2) Swap it for another inert substrate a little easier to scape / plant into such as blasting sand or pool filter sand.
3) Swap it for an active substrate such a Landon, Contra or Aquasoil.

If going with option 1:

Focus on CO2, fertilizers and light. You have a good light, you have CO2 but you are severely lacking on fertilizers (Flourish and Flourish tabs contain absolutely no macro nutrients plants need in large quantities). Optimize CO2, fine tune your fertilizers and your plants will thank you for it, even without changing the substrate.

If going with option 2:

Same as above, except you have to change the substrate, scape it, and replant everything prior to setting the tank back up. It's doable, it's not that hard (I've done it many time) it's just messy and time consuming. But, if you are after a nice scaped tank, it's worth it.

If going with option 3:

Do a lot of research on active soil substrates. They strip the water of KH thus lowering your pH. Every water change (using your tapwater) will cause a KH swing, thus a pH swing. Off the start, your pH will drop into the 6's, then over time the soil's buffering ability will reduce and your pH will climb to your current 7.8. Using RO will stop this, but you have to add GH back.


Overall, I would not mix substrate because they will eventually merge together, instead, just go with 1 for simplicity and long term sake.

I would most definitely return that Eco-Complete. It is an inert substrate with a hefty price tag. It contains no nutrients available to plants, it's hard to plant into, it contains irregular grain sizes etc. etc. It is essentially crushed lava rock. Flourite is no better. You would be better off with plain blasting sand (easier to plant into).

 

Eco-complete is worthless for planting/nutrition. But it looks nice.

 

I can't see your aquarium photo. If your aquarium is a plant aquarium, it's best to replace the sand with planting soil. Because it can help your water become weakly acidic and reduce the hardness of the water. PH < 7.0, GH < 8, TDS < 100. Most aquarium plants grow well within these values. Of course, the most important thing is the source of your fish tank water. It is recommended to use RO water. Although it is a waste of water resources, such water can reduce the flooding of algae. These are just suggestions. The water in each region is different. We may never be able to simulate the water quality of the Amazon River. I am a foreigner and use the translation software. I don't know whether the translation is accurate or not.