Advice on green water - please

Hello,

I am very new to aquariums, I very much appreciate any and all advice. We are trying hard to have a beautiful and ethical tank.

Starting out (about a month ago), we went to a well regarded local store and asked them to help us get set up. I think we have good equipment:

Ultum Nature - Rimless 35 gallon (I thought we were purchasing a 44 gallon but unfortunately that isn't what we got).
Eheim 2216 Filter -
Hydor heater
Prime HD freshwater light

The store was somewhat helpful. They have beautiful tanks and (I think) good recommendations on equipment but they weren't overly helpful in explaining things.

We set up the tank with substrate, a piece of drift wood and some rocks. The store advised that we add water and come back in two weeks to test the water. So that is what we did (I can't remember if we waited two or three weeks before testing). Anyway the water tested fine last weekend so we went ahead and added fish. 10 neon tetras, 5 glass catfish, 2 sucker fish (I don't remember the name, the large-ish brown type that you see everywhere) 2 amano shrimp and 1 dwarf crayfish.

Everyone was fine for the first few days but then the neon tetra started dying (they were losing color on their backs and then died). They have all died now except for two. Everyone else is fine. I called the store and they said they would be happy to replace them but that we should wait at least two weeks. After reading more on this forum about neon tetras, I'm not sure I want to replace them. They seem rather disease prone.

In the meantime the tank has started to look greenish. After doing some research I can see two places we went wrong, 1). No plants and 2) the tank gets some direct sun from an overhead skylight. We can't move the tank so I need to figure out how to make this work.

We went to another fish store yesterday and bought a few plants (ones that don't require CO2) and we went ahead and got 7 glofish. We also went to Petsmart last night and bought a UV light (green killing machine). I had read this would help with green water and could also help to kill any pathogens that might be around from the neons.

Is there anything else we should be doing to prevent the tank from turning green? Should I turn the light off all together during the daylight hours. The tank isn't getting sun all day, it just gets it as it moves across the sky.

Given the lighting, should we go ahead and get CO2 set up and plan to put in more plants?

And last question, I read about the nitrogen cycle on this website but I'm not clear if that is what we did while waiting 2-3 weeks. I guess it isn't since we didn't add fish food or ammonia?

Thank you in advance for any advice!

 

Hello,

I am very new to aquariums, I very much appreciate any and all advice. We are trying hard to have a beautiful and ethical tank.

Starting out (about a month ago), we went to a well regarded local store and asked them to help us get set up. I think we have good equipment:

Ultum Nature - Rimless 35 gallon (I thought we were purchasing a 44 gallon but unfortunately that isn't what we got).
Eheim 2216 Filter -
Hydor heater
Prime HD freshwater light

The store was somewhat helpful. They have beautiful tanks and (I think) good recommendations on equipment but they weren't overly helpful in explaining things.

We set up the tank with substrate, a piece of drift wood and some rocks. The store advised that we add water and come back in two weeks to test the water. So that is what we did (I can't remember if we waited two or three weeks before testing). Anyway the water tested fine last weekend so we went ahead and added fish. 10 neon tetras, 5 glass catfish, 2 sucker fish (I don't remember the name, the large-ish brown type that you see everywhere) 2 amano shrimp and 1 dwarf crayfish.

Everyone was fine for the first few days but then the neon tetra started dying (they were losing color on their backs and then died). They have all died now except for two. Everyone else is fine. I called the store and they said they would be happy to replace them but that we should wait at least two weeks. After reading more on this forum about neon tetras, I'm not sure I want to replace them. They seem rather disease prone.

In the meantime the tank has started to look greenish. After doing some research I can see two places we went wrong, 1). No plants and 2) the tank gets some direct sun from an overhead skylight. We can't move the tank so I need to figure out how to make this work.

We went to another fish store yesterday and bought a few plants (ones that don't require CO2) and we went ahead and got 7 glofish. We also went to Petsmart last night and bought a UV light (green killing machine). I had read this would help with green water and could also help to kill any pathogens that might be around from the neons.

Is there anything else we should be doing to prevent the tank from turning green? Should I turn the light off all together during the daylight hours. The tank isn't getting sun all day, it just gets it as it moves across the sky.

Given the lighting, should we go ahead and get CO2 set up and plan to put in more plants?

And last question, I read about the nitrogen cycle on this website but I'm not clear if that is what we did while waiting 2-3 weeks. I guess it isn't since we didn't add fish food or ammonia?

Thank you in advance for any advice!

Hi! Unfortunately sunlight does and will attract algae, free flowing or otherwise. I have a tube exposed to sun with this in mind (algae is to feed little critters). My first suggestion is to move the tank away from sunlight. If this is not possible/plausible then I would suggest covering or shielding the tank from sun. I understand this is a rather stopgap measure, but it just might be effective. If that doesn't work, you can try growing more plants. Under ideal conditions plants should outcompete algae for nutrients and in theory should be able to keep algae in control.

Now regarding the nitrogen cycle, this is a very important principle that all new hobbyists should read up on and understand - you cannot afford not to. With that said, how long have you had your tank? Do you have test kits to measure your water parameters? What is your maintenance regimen?

 

Thank you for your reply! Unfortunately I can't move the tank away from the sunlight. I am going to have to figure out how to make it work with the sunlight.

We have been doing 25-35% water changes weekly. (Which I understand can actually add to the algae growth due to phosphates). The tank has been set up for five weeks now. We have also been vacuuming the substate weekly.

I ordered a testing kit last night (the one recommended on this forum). It will arrive tomorrow.

So it sounds like I should definitely plan on adding plants- thank you!! Any thoughts on the UV light? Or was that a waste of money?

 

1- The tank is new set up.It was not go through the cycle.You hurry add fish and fed them .It start the cycle with fish waste ,create over doze ammomia,nitrite,nitrate,poison and killed your fishes
2- Green water start appear,soon it will create algae all ver your tank due to too much light in your tank.Mostly 8 hrs light with plants ,4-6 hrs with out plants including light hrs came from other sources like window,skylight sunlight.
3-You need to get use with easy grow and care first before advance to CO2 system .Co2 system help plant grow but too much will harm your fish while air pump create O2 help the fishes but slow the plants grow in day time.
Solution: As of now you have 2 fish left.+7 new buy....Learn how to cycle your tank with fishes to create safe environment to your tank for your fish.Post thread in forum as you want ask question..When your tank complete cycle then you can add more fish in.While it in process of cycle you ok to add more plants and floating plants as you like to increase nature environment and calm your fishes and create the sun block from sky light for your tank ( if light hrs total is over 8 hrs)
Learn how to use CO2 system with fishes to increase the grow of your plants and harmless to your fish.
Decrease the total light hrs to 8 hrs max or set it lower as need to avoid algae and green water.
Do not buy any more fish until your tank complete cycle ...But buy the API test kit..
Return UV light to store..you don't need that for your tank,,waste money..

 

Thank you Vinh. I kind of thought we might be rushing things.

Ok so we do actually have more than two fish (hangs head in shame). We now have 7 glofish, 2 neons (I know we should have more neons as they like to school), 5 glass catfish and 2 sucker fish. Now I'm wondering if they are all going to die.

I will read up on the nitrogen cycle. I thought that is what we did when we set it all up for a couple of weeks. Clearly not!

Thank you again.

 

The store advised that we add water and come back in two weeks to test the water. So that is what we did (I can't remember if we waited two or three weeks before testing). Anyway the water tested fine last weekend so we went ahead and added fish. 10 neon tetras, 5 glass catfish, 2 sucker fish (I don't remember the name, the large-ish brown type that you see everywhere) 2 amano shrimp and 1 dwarf crayfish.

Aaaand there's your main problem. You went from zero waste to a lot all at once, in an uncycled tank. Neons are on the delicate side as far as "common beginner fish" go but they thrive in established tanks, though.

In the meantime the tank has started to look greenish. After doing some research I can see two places we went wrong, 1). No plants and 2) the tank gets some direct sun from an overhead skylight. We can't move the tank so I need to figure out how to make this work.

Sunlight will grow algae so much that most people and sites will recommend that you NEVER put a tank in it. Plants can help, but just a few stems and leaves won't outcompete algae and, more likely than not, will get overwhelmed by algae themselves before they can get established.

Is there anything else we should be doing to prevent the tank from turning green? Should I turn the light off all together during the daylight hours. The tank isn't getting sun all day, it just gets it as it moves across the sky.

Given the lighting, should we go ahead and get CO2 set up and plan to put in more plants?

That depends on how many hours of light it gets every day. Definitely don't keep your lights on all day though. Buy a cheap timer and keep the lights on for a total of 8 hours a day, since you have plants.
If I were you I'd try to come up with some way to shade the tank during sunlight hours, if it's more than an hour a day. CO2 is expensive, can create a host of its own problems, and seriously isn't worth it unless you're planning on some serious aquascaping. Not beginner-level stuff at all.

It's perfectly possible to create a jungle of a planted tank without CO2 too. You just need to pick low-demand plants like hornwort, vals, and rotala, and give them medium level light.

And last question, I read about the nitrogen cycle on this website but I'm not clear if that is what we did while waiting 2-3 weeks. I guess it isn't since we didn't add fish food or ammonia?

Thank you in advance for any advice!

Fish make waste called ammonia (NO4), highly toxic in small amounts. A certain kind of bacteria will break ammonia down into nitrite (NO2), also highly toxic. More bacteria will further process nitrite into nitrate (NO3), which is toxic only in comparatively high amounts. The bacteria lives on every surface of the tank, but most concentrated in the filter. A cycled tank will have zero ammonia and zero nitrites. Nitrate levels vary and can be lowered by doing water changes.

"Cycling" means that your bacteria colonies haven't grown enough to keep the highly toxic stuff at undetectable levels. Before cycling is complete, waste toxin will will stress hardier fish and kill delicate ones. However, in order to grow your bacteria colonies, you must have ammonia present for them to "eat." So yeah you didn't cycle.

Some people feed their bacteria pure ammonia during the process. I kept pest snails and fed them a ton. The cycle will establish itself naturally in about a month as long as you keep your filter media wet and the bacteria "fed." Since you have fish already, monitor your ammonia and nitrite levels and do a partial water change if they're too high. Buy an API test kit to do this, or be prepared to make lots of trips to a LFS that does it for free. Don't use paper test strips; they may be cheaper but they are notoriously imprecise.

 

Thank you for your reply! Unfortunately I can't move the tank away from the sunlight. I am going to have to figure out how to make it work with the sunlight.

We have been doing 25-35% water changes weekly. (Which I understand can actually add to the algae growth due to phosphates). The tank has been set up for five weeks now. We have also been vacuuming the substate weekly.

I ordered a testing kit last night (the one recommended on this forum). It will arrive tomorrow.

So it sounds like I should definitely plan on adding plants- thank you!! Any thoughts on the UV light? Or was that a waste of money?

I've never used UV sterilisers nor did I find the need to, really, so I cannot really comment regarding that. Some people say they're absolutely worthless and a waste of money while some swear by it. The consensus is, however, is that you shouldn't rely on it to replace proper care and maintenance of your tank.

It's good that you've went ahead and ordered the test kits, personally I'd think it's almost as good as an investment as a heater. Do remember that once you get your kit, ammonia and nitrite readings should be absolutely zero. Nitrate on the other hand should be as low as possible but not zero. There should be some of it it your tank.

 

Thank you Vinh. I kind of thought we might be rushing things.

Ok so we do actually have more than two fish (hangs head in shame). We now have 7 glofish, 2 neons (I know we should have more neons as they like to school), 5 glass catfish and 2 sucker fish. Now I'm wondering if they are all going to die.

I will read up on the nitrogen cycle. I thought that is what we did when we set it all up for a couple of weeks. Clearly not!

Thank you again.

If you done the procedure of cycle your tank with fish correctly then all your fish will be safe..I just done and no fish die...Make sure ask twice before you doing thing which you are not sure 100%...The floating plant on the water surface will help to create shade to reduce total light from skylight.You don't need to move your tank...

 

If you done the procedure of cycle your tank with fish correctly then all your fish will be safe..I just done and no fish die...Make sure ask twice before you doing thing which you are not sure 100%...The floating plant on the water surface will help to create shade to reduce total light from skylight.You don't need to move your tank...

Oh good idea about a floating plant!! I hadn't thought of that - thank you!

Aaaand there's your main problem. You went from zero waste to a lot all at once, in an uncycled tank. Neons are on the delicate side as far as "common beginner fish" go but they thrive in established tanks, though.


Sunlight will grow algae so much that most people and sites will recommend that you NEVER put a tank in it. Plants can help, but just a few stems and leaves won't outcompete algae and, more likely than not, will get overwhelmed by algae themselves before they can get established.



That depends on how many hours of light it gets every day. Definitely don't keep your lights on all day though. Buy a cheap timer and keep the lights on for a total of 8 hours a day, since you have plants.
If I were you I'd try to come up with some way to shade the tank during sunlight hours, if it's more than an hour a day. CO2 is expensive, can create a host of its own problems, and seriously isn't worth it unless you're planning on some serious aquascaping. Not beginner-level stuff at all.

It's perfectly possible to create a jungle of a planted tank without CO2 too. You just need to pick low-demand plants like hornwort, vals, and rotala, and give them medium level light.

Fish make waste called ammonia (NO4), highly toxic in small amounts. A certain kind of bacteria will break ammonia down into nitrite (NO2), also highly toxic. More bacteria will further process nitrite into nitrate (NO3), which is toxic only in comparatively high amounts. The bacteria lives on every surface of the tank, but most concentrated in the filter. A cycled tank will have zero ammonia and zero nitrites. Nitrate levels vary and can be lowered by doing water changes.

"Cycling" means that your bacteria colonies haven't grown enough to keep the highly toxic stuff at undetectable levels. Before cycling is complete, waste toxin will will stress hardier fish and kill delicate ones. However, in order to grow your bacteria colonies, you must have ammonia present for them to "eat." So yeah you didn't cycle.

Some people feed their bacteria pure ammonia during the process. I kept pest snails and fed them a ton. The cycle will establish itself naturally in about a month as long as you keep your filter media wet and the bacteria "fed." Since you have fish already, monitor your ammonia and nitrite levels and do a partial water change if they're too high. Buy an API test kit to do this, or be prepared to make lots of trips to a LFS that does it for free. Don't use paper test strips; they may be cheaper but they are notoriously imprecise.

Thank you!! This is very helpful. My API test kit will arrive tomorrow. I will test right away and do water changes as needed.

I'm kind of surprised the store told us to go ahead with all the fish at once (I even asked if that was ok to do). I definitely didn't get the feeling that they were high pressure at all. In fact, just the opposite, it was hard to get help.

As far as the algae goes, I'm going to give it a little time and add a few more plants (Including a floating one as Vinh suggested). I read that algae looks bad but won't kill the fish, I hope this is true.

 

No, the algae isn't harmful, but unsightly. Do update us on your tank parameters once you're able to. It's the most common problem with aquaria by far. Good luck!

 

Thank you!! This is very helpful. My API test kit will arrive tomorrow. I will test right away and do water changes as needed.

I'm kind of surprised the store told us to go ahead with all the fish at once (I even asked if that was ok to do). I definitely didn't get the feeling that they were high pressure at all. In fact, just the opposite, it was hard to get help.

As far as the algae goes, I'm going to give it a little time and add a few more plants (Including a floating one as Vinh suggested). I read that algae looks bad but won't kill the fish, I hope this is true.

Store is bussiness.They want to sell fish and some worker at store has not much educated about fish,plants .I am not surprise at all .
Algae won't kill fish but kill plants in some way,it cover leave ,blocking light,ruin plant to die.Algae is food for all kind of algae eater but when it is out of control then it will effect water parameter and effect to fish health...it is bad but good and also bad...All depend, where it is at..

 

Unfortunately many fish store employees aren't all that well informed, and what they are informed of is false information that ultimately gets you buying more fish quicker.

Theoretically, uv sterilisers work. I have one built in to my canister filter and I have never had any algae. However that may also be due to heavy planting, moderate light cycle 4 bn plecos, and lots of snails.

In planting more to out compete algae, once the tank is cycled you may have to add fertilisers to boost plant growth and ensure that do out compete the algae.

As for your sunlight, I would observe the tank throughout the day, document at what time and for how long there is sunlight on the tank, and use a timer to work out a light cycle that turns the lights out during sunlight, and has the lights on either side of it, and totalling no more than 8 hours. Monitor and adjust accordingly. If algae continues to increase over the next month or so, decrease the amount of total light time to 7 hours, and so on, until you hit that sweet spot of great growth no algae. Someone previously mentioned floating plants. These would be great to shade out your tank and reduce the amount of light therefore reducing algae. Some good floaters include frogbit, duckweed, riccia, Etc.

 

UPDATE:

I got my API test kit. The first time I've ever done this so hopefully it is correct (I followed the instructions to a T but had a hard time differentiating between some of the colors).

Ammonia .25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Ph 8

We just vacuumed the substrate and did a 25% water change plus added Prime. The tank looks great, clean and clear, even before the water change. No one has died. I tested the ammonia again after the water change. It is still showing .25 (I think).

Any ideas?