Advice and tips for a teacher

HI I am a 3rd grade teacher here in Las Vegas, NV.

Our Science program uses a and because I am the "male teacher" the other ladies won't have anything to do with Structures of Life module. It deals with fruits, and Crayfish. (Snails, and Bess beetles too) For some reason land snails are "illegal" in NV? SO we mainly focus on seeds, fruits, and the Crayfish.

Ok my questions: As I mentioned I am a teacher, so I am poor.
Last year I tried out the crayfish business in the classroom and everyday one or more died. It started getting expensive replacing them. I decided to invest in an aquarium, filter, heater, air pump etc. This made a huge difference! The crayfish survived and flourished for months.

Like I said I am a teacher, so I'm poor. I decided this year to invest in a undergravel filter. WHY???? Because the filter media for the Marineland 400 started to get costly, Crayfish are a little nasty.

Before I go any further, my equipment:
* 40 gallon breeder from Petsmart, perfect size tank for what I need. Unfortunately, I still haven't found a stand for this size tank, so, in the end it was a poor choice.

* Emperor 400 filter, annoying, I dislike it, expensive to replace the filter media, the bio wheel is constantly stopping, and crayfish are messy as well

* My setup this past year went very well, I bought 10 feeder goldfish, and I think, what ended up being about 16 crayfish, 7 goldfish survived, and grew to 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 inches, very nice goldfish. Most all the crayfish grew well, and 12 survived until the last day of school. (By the way I have made some great 8 yr old fish hobbyist) The kids got to see the growth, the molting, the battles, the behavior, etc.. YES I know that many crayfish and goldfish is too much in a tank.

* tetrafin Goldfish flakes, A few, (12 or so ) shreds of Romaine lettuce, algae wafers. Algae wafers split into 3-4 pieces, (8 year olds are good at doing that) and the romaine every other week or so. I was conscious of the tank health, and the water. And the cost of the filter media, so feeding was considered adequate, but moderate.

* we did water changes weekly, 5 whole gallons, water was treated with stress coat, a small pinch of aquarium salt, and a jigger of Cycle.

My problem is the filters were getting dirty very fast! 40 gallons or not, that many crayfish and goldfish was alot. Every week with the water change, I would reserve a gallon or so and swish out the pieces (filter cartridge, media container, and even the biowheel, it would be messy. I knew that doing it in the tank water would not harm the beneficial bacteria. The tank was always crystal clear, no odor, no deaths, no nothing. Remember, I have 20+ dirty little hands manhandling the crayfish too, they are being netted in and out for 2 weeks at a time. ( I teach 7, 3rd grade classes, we rotate, and I do the Structures of Life Module, so I get about 20 or so new kids every 25 days)

This year I researched and read quite a bit about filtration.
Here it goes, I pray that I did not make a huge mistake!

I decided this year to try an undergravel filter, mainly because of the cost of upkeeping the Penguin Filter. After reading all the pros and cons, I thought I'de be safe because we use a gravel vacuum, and change 5 gallons of water every week. I invested in an undergravel filter, another reminder about the poor choice of tank size, I could not find the right size anywhere in town, I settled for a smaller one. 36X12 or it might have been 14 I forget, the "guy" at the petshop assured me it would be OK. I also bought 2 aquaclear power heads. ( forget the number, for some reason 900 comes to mind)

So Let me know what you think?
Was I wrong to try an undergravel filter?
A big quiestion I have is how deep can the gravel be or should it be?

This year I wanted to try and find a few fish ( other than goldfish) I could introduce to the tank instead. But, would be safe from the crayfish? I do have a heater. I did not use it this past year, especially with the goldfish, and it kept the crayfish peaceful not being too warm. Any fish suggestions? I will definitely consider the goldfish again.

I will appreciate any and all comments on this topic, my goal is to keep the crayfish healthy and alive for the 9 months of school.

I have just painted the tank sides and back, an aqua blue, and inserted the undergravel filter and powerheads, tomorow, I hope to fill with water.
The kids start coming in to class on Monday. This is when I explain the idea of water cycling, building bacteria, letting the tank "get ready" for the crayfish and maybe fish. That is why there is no visible life in there yet.

PS.. I'de ideally like to find an aqaurium stand for the 40 gallon breeder, especially if it's not too expensive. My bigger dream is to find a stand that can hold up two 40 gallon tanks, I'de like to make the top level all tropical fish, plants etc., the bottom the crayfish. Let me know if you know of a reasonable place.

Any other tips or suggestions about my setup, and our crayfish is appreciated greatly.
Hopefully I will post a few pictures of my setup in a few weeks when it comes together.

PS...; I always had a tank in my room, usually a 10 gallon, anything from guppies, mollies, angels, platys, tetras, zebras, etc.. I love the fish keeping hobby, and hopefully I generate excitement in my classroom for kids to get involved in the hobby as well.
Roger

 

White cloud mountain minnows would be perfect. They don't need a heater and stay small

I personally don't like under gravel filters. I think they are more trouble than they are worth. I Think the best solution for you would be a canister filter. There is a brand called sunsun available on eBay from a seller called discountaquatics. You could get the one that is 30 or 40 bucks. It would be like 60 shipped, media would be much cheaper than for the penguin (you can use the stuff stores sell to fill pillows) and the filter would be able to keep up better than a under gravel in my opinion.

 

I agree with JRDroid (formerly Monmouth ) and I would add that goldfish are huge waste producers, so changing them out for a smaller species really will help keep the water quality manageable.

 

HI Roger. Welcome to Fish Lore. My hat is off to you sir for all your efforts in teaching our children.

Undergravel filters are not nearly as popular as they once were. Back in the day they were a mainstay in the aquarium hobby. The biggest problem with them is the amount of detritus that collects under the plate(s) after extended use. That being said, I don't see any reason an undergravel filter wouldn't work in your application. I would however suggest a tank break-down for a proper cleaning between the school years.

I would only put about an inch of gravel over the filter plate. Too much and you run the risk of creating an anaerobic layer in the gravel. With the two power heads you should get a very good flow rate and be able to grow a thriving bacteria colony, the key with an undergravel filter and good aquarium health.

Like others have said, I would swap out the goldfish for a smaller, less bio-load fish. White Clouds, Rosey Red feeders, Zebra - Leopard or Pearl Danios, would all be suitable fish for an un-heated tank. I currently keep crayfish in with many of my Danios without any problems.

Best of luck with your tank & the new school year!

Dennis

 

I agree with the others. The minnows () and the danios would be your best bet for a coldwater tank!

The undergravel is considered to be 'akward' and hard to use. Even in my 10G, it would be nearly impossible to maintain! But yeah, canisters are great

Do you like DIY? You could make your own stand and even your own canister filter (there are soo many designs you can go with!). This will be the most cost effective way of doing things, but not if it can fail!

 

Welcome to FishLore Roger!!

As a side note...the media for the filter should not have been costing you much. As it begins to clog, you only need to rinse it out in some aquarium water and put it back. This way your bacteria in it will remain.

 

I would do guppies. they multiply fast, they are hardy and they are super colorful.

I also sugjest blue crayfish at 5$ a peice that's a steal in my book.

also look around for some cheaper filter media options and use whatever u used last time. ugf arnt that good, and crayfish will dig up the "white" plastic part, making it useless

 

I had two other thoughts for budgeting. First, look through the DIY threads on this site. I've seen DIY filters, and things like that, and it may save you a buck here and there. The second thought that I had was to see if a local fish store would be willing to donate supplies and such for the good press it would bring, especially since you're hooking a whole generation of kids on fish tanks.

 

HI I am a 3rd grade teacher here in Las Vegas, NV.Welcome to the forum! I'm moving to las vegas in march

Our Science program uses a and because I am the "male teacher" the other ladies won't have anything to do with Structures of Life module. It deals with fruits, and Crayfish. (Snails, and Bess beetles too) For some reason land snails are "illegal" in NV? SO we mainly focus on seeds, fruits, and the Crayfish.

Ok my questions: As I mentioned I am a teacher, so I am poor.
Last year I tried out the crayfish business in the classroom and everyday one or more died. It started getting expensive replacing them. I decided to invest in an aquarium, filter, heater, air pump etc. This made a huge difference! The crayfish survived and flourished for months.

Like I said I am a teacher, so I'm poor. I decided this year to invest in a undergravel filter. WHY???? Because the filter media for the Marineland 400 started to get costly, Crayfish are a little nasty.crayfish are likely to dismantle/damage the undergravel filter. The marineland 400 (emperor 400?) is a good filter - you don't need to be changing the cartridges. Instead, I would get a pack of Aquaclear 110 sponge filters. You can cut them to fit in your filter. Best part is - you'll almost NEVER have to change it. If you want to use carbon (I don't...it's a choice) you can use the aquaclear carbon bags - makes it easy to change. But since you're on a budget, I don't think you need to use the carbon. Since you never change the sponge, you need to know when to clean it. With your filter, the water will start spilling out back over the filter intake. That's your indicator that it's time to clean the sponges. You may need to put a weight of some sort on top of the sponges to keep them inplace.

Before I go any further, my equipment:
* 40 gallon breeder from Petsmart, perfect size tank for what I need. Unfortunately, I still haven't found a stand for this size tank, so, in the end it was a poor choice. Great choice for a tank.

* Emperor 400 filter, annoying, I dislike it, expensive to replace the filter media, the bio wheel is constantly stopping, and crayfish are messy as well

* My setup this past year went very well, I bought 10 feeder goldfish, and I think, what ended up being about 16 crayfish, 7 goldfish survived, and grew to 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 inches, very nice goldfish. Most all the crayfish grew well, and 12 survived until the last day of school. (By the way I have made some great 8 yr old fish hobbyist) The kids got to see the growth, the molting, the battles, the behavior, etc.. YES I know that many crayfish and goldfish is too much in a tank.

* tetrafin Goldfish flakes, A few, (12 or so ) shreds of Romaine lettuce, algae wafers. Algae wafers split into 3-4 pieces, (8 year olds are good at doing that) and the romaine every other week or so. I was conscious of the tank health, and the water. And the cost of the filter media, so feeding was considered adequate, but moderate. I feed my crays shrimp, in addition to a good staple food. The shells are good for them. Also, be sure to leave the shells in the tank when they molt. They'll eat them to get back the nutrients.

* we did water changes weekly, 5 whole gallons, water was treated with stress coat, a small pinch of aquarium salt, and a jigger of Cycle. Crayfish don't really like salt. IMO you should stop using it. Cycle is another way you can cut your costs. Cycle does what nature does naturally, and it's an unnesseccary cost. I would stop using it. Your tank is old enough that you shouldn't have much of a problem with a mini-cycle.

My problem is the filters were getting dirty very fast! 40 gallons or not, that many crayfish and goldfish was alot. Every week with the water change, I would reserve a gallon or so and swish out the pieces (filter cartridge, media container, and even the biowheel, it would be messy. I knew that doing it in the tank water would not harm the beneficial bacteria. The tank was always crystal clear, no odor, no deaths, no nothing. Remember, I have 20+ dirty little hands manhandling the crayfish too, they are being netted in and out for 2 weeks at a time. ( I teach 7, 3rd grade classes, we rotate, and I do the Structures of Life Module, so I get about 20 or so new kids every 25 days)

This year I researched and read quite a bit about filtration.
Here it goes, I pray that I did not make a huge mistake!

I decided this year to try an undergravel filter, mainly because of the cost of upkeeping the Penguin Filter. After reading all the pros and cons, I thought I'de be safe because we use a gravel vacuum, and change 5 gallons of water every week. I invested in an undergravel filter, another reminder about the poor choice of tank size, I could not find the right size anywhere in town, I settled for a smaller one. 36X12 or it might have been 14 I forget, the "guy" at the petshop assured me it would be OK. I also bought 2 aquaclear power heads. ( forget the number, for some reason 900 comes to mind)

If you're having trouble with the filter, you may want to considder getting a canister. There are good canisters on Ebay for significantly less than you'd otherwise pay. The brand is sunsun - check it out.

So Let me know what you think?
Was I wrong to try an undergravel filter?
A big quiestion I have is how deep can the gravel be or should it be?



This year I wanted to try and find a few fish ( other than goldfish) I could introduce to the tank instead. But, would be safe from the crayfish? I do have a heater. I did not use it this past year, especially with the goldfish, and it kept the crayfish peaceful not being too warm. Any fish suggestions? I will definitely consider the goldfish again.

I would suggest tiger barbs. It's an excellent tank for the barbs, and that is a combination that I've had success with for many years.

I will appreciate any and all comments on this topic, my goal is to keep the crayfish healthy and alive for the 9 months of school.

I have just painted the tank sides and back, an aqua blue, and inserted the undergravel filter and powerheads, tomorow, I hope to fill with water.
The kids start coming in to class on Monday. This is when I explain the idea of water cycling, building bacteria, letting the tank "get ready" for the crayfish and maybe fish. That is why there is no visible life in there yet.

PS.. I'de ideally like to find an aqaurium stand for the 40 gallon breeder, especially if it's not too expensive. My bigger dream is to find a stand that can hold up two 40 gallon tanks, I'de like to make the top level all tropical fish, plants etc., the bottom the crayfish. Let me know if you know of a reasonable place.

Any other tips or suggestions about my setup, and our crayfish is appreciated greatly.
Hopefully I will post a few pictures of my setup in a few weeks when it comes together.

PS...; I always had a tank in my room, usually a 10 gallon, anything from guppies, mollies, angels, platys, tetras, zebras, etc.. I love the fish keeping hobby, and hopefully I generate excitement in my classroom for kids to get involved in the hobby as well.
Roger

My answers are in red.

Oh wait, are you starting this tank from scratch? Should have read the whole thing before starting to answer.

 

Hello and welcome!!!! Kudos for being a teacher!!!!!! Not much to add only that I have about 12 tanks running....I make all of my own filter necesities....WAY cheaper!!!!!! I purchase a box of carbon...even if I have to from wallmart, quilt batting(non flame retardant wallmart or craftstore)...and violla!!!!!!! For my smaller tanks...I kept the original frame from purchassed filter cartidges....cleaned them out, replaced the carbon,and cover the frame with the batting.....if I have to Iold it over to fit and on one of my tanks I used a rubber band to keep it secure.....I cnage all of my filter stuff in every tank about every 3 weeks or so, water changes EVERY week.....and this batting lasts forever....It may take a little longer(12 tanks)...but I just refuse to buy the premade ones...if I can save a few cents by doing this...WOO-HOOOOOO!!!! I then can buy much more wanted stuff than needed stuff!!!!!

Just my opinion...but I really think undergravel filters make more of a mess than they help

 

lorabell, please explain further. what I read didnt quite make sence.

 

Thanks for the tips and advice, greatly appreciated.
The tank is set up and running.
Looks like I may add a few fish on Monday, I am carefully considering all the different options and advice given here. I decided to try the heater this year, and am planning on getting some guppies. Since I have had tanks in my classroom from the first year of teaching, what I could not pawn off to the students at the end of the year, I took to my mom and dad's home for "summer keeping." She informs me she has over fifty in her tank to please take some, I think I will.

Because of the advice about the messiness of the undergravel filter, the clogging etc. I take into account that I elect a few student helpers to vacuum every Friday, until a 5 gallon water tank is filled. This I think will keep the filter safe from clogging and spoiling, if I may word it that way. The tank gets broken down at the end of the school year in June and gets a thorough cleaning. Well, I bought it, it's installed and I plan on giving it a try, if I find it is not ideal, and the tank properties are poor I will definitely get a canister filter.

I just last night drove all over town looking for Biozyme, this is a product that I rely on yearly, not one place in town had it, very disappointed. I usually add a heaping tablespoon into the tank, a week later add fish and have mostly no fatalities. I'll have to order it online somewhere. I did find the Beatta barracks, or Betta condo that fits 4 Betta's. Since I will be using the heater this year, decided to get two, and 4 Betta fish.

The kids are very excited about the tank, and already on day two are asking about the introduction of fish or crayfish. I love this opportunity to explain and discuss cycling, bacteria, filtration, water perameters, etc..

I am looking forward to a fun year, as the kids are too.
I will try to post pictures as the tank progresses, and let you know how the undergravel filter is working.
Thanks, Roger

 

hI there I am new to. I was told that some of the small fish would get cought under the underground so be careful. also a cheep and safe way of saving money is... fill up empty milk jugs with tap water and let breath for 48 hours. then put a lid on them.we do this to all 4 of our tanks and almost never have to add any thing to them. guppies will eat their young! also got to wal-mart and get pea pebble instead of gravel cheap!!! and also you can go to a river and get river rocks and use them for caves and other cool stuff. thanks for your time hope you injoy your tanks as much as we do☆

 

what kind of fish did u decide on?

 

I make my own filter catridges..from boxed carbon(sold at all LFS and even wallmart) ....I also use batting material (very sililar to floss from a pet store..its used when people make quilts or blankets)....what don't u understand????

 

I know what both those things are, but what I'm not understanding is how you put it together, wheather u use air or not? and how it actually filters the water

 

what kind of fish did u decide on?

I'm going to try the guppies since mom has several.
Hopefully the crayfish won't eat em up.
They NEVER went after nor messed with the goldfish I had in the tank.

 

I know what both those things are, but what I'm not understanding is how you put it together, wheather u use air or not? and how it actually filters the water

I use it in my filters....instead of purchassing filter cartridges for 11 differant filters ...I just make my own....WAY cheaper in the long run...I fit it for all of my HOB filters (I just cover the cartidges from the maufacturers that come with the filters)...in my canister filters ..just make it bigger to fit the baskets..for the price of one type of filter cartidges(usually a box of 3) I can purchase a whole box of carbon.The batting from local craft store cost about $13.00 for like 10 feet...they both last a lot onger than just buying new filter cartidges each month......It just saves me a ton of $

 

oh, I'm sorry lorabell. you never mentioned the hob filter part. it sounded as if you just put the stuff in the tank.

and as for that note lorabell, you can also buy blue filter media from the lfs for cheap. I bought a few square yards(may 10sq yards? I forget) for only a couple of $$

 

Excited, tomorrow I introduce the crayfish into the tank...
I ended up running the Penguin filter along with the undergravel as well.
I managed to get the guppies, (mom had them ) and added some cycled tank water.
Also have a few bettas and flying fox.
I added some Biozyme.
Everything looks good.
Went out and bought the crayfish.
Kids are excited.

 

That sounds like such a cool project. I wish I'd had you when I was in school.

 

Please forgive me if I am wrong but won't the crayfish eat the guppies at lights out seeing as they sleep on the bottom? ?
Nick

 

Please forgive me if I am wrong but won't the crayfish eat the guppies at lights out seeing as they sleep on the bottom? ?
Nick

They might, everything was good the past 4 days, I mentioned that it might happen, and that we could make confirmations by keeping count of the fish.

 

no they won't catch guppies. well its less then a 1% chance.

see I breed guppies, and crays. I have around 50 tanks, atleast 20 are just 10/15gal tanks, for guppies and crayfish. I very rarely loose guppies, some cut tails on rare occasions yeah, but rarely do my crays catch the fish.