advice about my ADF please Help

  1. pearlypops Member Member

    Hi all,
    So today I brought two new additions for my tank ad brought african dwarf frogs..I have a few questions about them to make sure I give them the best possible outcome. Firstly I would like to mention I had to spend over an hour making sure ALL holes were completly covered as i noticed ealier that one of them had gone all the way to the top of the tank, passed the water level so was out of water! and was resting just below a hole I have between the glass and my lid (my lid doesnt fit exactly so has small gaps either side) so firstly my 1st question is based on this, how is it possible that he cam right out of the water and stayed there for about 5-10 mins? I now feel at rest knowing I have done my best to cover all escape routes. :)

    My 2nd question is about feeding, Ive read that they love blood worm, but as far as I was aware, its best to only fee your fish bloodworm once a week as its a very rich food, so how am I going to feed my frogs blood worm regulary if Im only to feed the fish weekly on bloodworm? what else can I feed my frogs daily that wont have any affect on feeding my fish daily?

    My 3rd question is rather tricky to explain...at the top of my tank next to either side of the glass, there are two strips of glass that go across the whole length of the tank and are about 4-5cm in width, my ADF seem to use the glass as a direct way up to the surface to get there air, but due to this as they follow the glass up, when they get to the top they sort of "Bump" into these strips of glass and im paroniod thinking that maybe they arent gettin the air they require, if they went up further away from the glass then they would avoid these "barriers" and reach the surface properly, am I just being to cautious (being that these are new to me i suppose)? will they eventually stop using the glass as a "Help route" to the surface and start relaising to go further away or mor to the middle or is this the way the usually reach the surface? I hope this make sence to you all lol

    And my last question is about cleaning with ADF's in the tank, I m quite worried how likely it will be that while my tank lid is open while im cleanin and syphoning the gravel, will they come to the top to get air and jump out? My ADF's seem to like to go to the surface quite often so I think there may be loads of oppertunities for them to jump while im doing my weekly clean. any advice on how to keep my new additions safe would be much apprecited, thanks for reading

    Pearl
     
  2. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    If your adf's are spending that much time out of the water something is probably wrong.
    It could be the water, tank mates or they are ill.
    Sadly, a lot commercial adf's are already sick or weakened.

    With that said, I once found one of my adf's hopping across the living room rug. He wasn't sick, didn't have tankmates and the tank was cycled.
    I was so shocked to see him!!

    In contast, a few years later, I had a ceramic dish in their tank. They did everything they could to climb out of the water.
    Turns out the dish was glazed and releasing toxins in the water.
    I took the dish out, did a 100% water change and they were fine after that.

    I'm not a huge fan of ADF's in a community tank.
    They can be hard to feed.
    Usually the fish find all the food before they even know it's there.

    A 29g tank can be rather tall for very young adf's to get to the surface quickly for air.
    Often they tire out before they get there.

    They really shouldn't just jump out when the lid is off to vacuum.
    Most likely they will hide.

    Imo, they'd do better in a tank of their own.
    :) Not everyone agrees with his.

    I would hope they don't continue to bump their little heads. They really could severly injure themselves.

    This should help:
    https://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/amphibians/36417-care-sheet-african-dwarf-frogs.html

    Good luck!
     

  3. pearlypops Member Member

    Hi Lucy and thanks for your reply, beofre writing this thread I can say I happily enjoye reaing your care sheet and your story of the jumping ADF :) I am now slightly worried about there being something "wrong" in the tank for him to be out for so long? but im glad (so far) i can safely say water paremeters are all fine, and no other tank mates have bovered them at all (ive been watching them in amazments for hours!) lol they was very shy for the 1st few hours in the tank and hid constantly, but now they are swimming all over the tank and climbing/resting on all the rocks. one thing I should mention just incase it could be causing a problem is I have recently had an outbreak of ich in the tank (added some new neons so think it must have come from those) and I am medicating with a product I tend to use for these scenerios called protozin, I have also got the temp turned up to 82f, hopefully this isnt causing any stress on them?
    I read about the whole feeding scenerio, and tried to put some flakes in at one side for the fish, and popped in some tubafex for the frogs at the other side, and saw them happily muching away on that :) can i also add that my tank is 21 UK gallons and so far my AFD's dont seem to have any probs in swimming steadily to the top...hopefully that wont change? Thanks again for all your advice Lucy,
     
  4. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    You're welcome!
    lol Glad you enjoyed my adf's little adventure. Poor thing was covered in cat hair!

    I saw your pictures in the amphibian pictures thread.
    They just too cute!! Gotta love their little faces!
    Sounds like you have a good handle on feeding them.

    ADF's don't get ick, so there's one less worry :)
    The meds would be more of a concern.
    There aren't too many that ADF's can handle.
    My guess is that the meds are bugging them.

    Do you have a Q tank you can put them in?
    They would need to be kept warm but woudn't need a filter as long as you did daily/every other day water changes until the treatment in the main tank was over.
     

  5. pearlypops Member Member

    I do have a quarintine tank, well a tank...its a 67litre that is not set up nor does it not have any equipment, ive had it for quite a while waiting on saving up money to set it up as tank number two. Dont have a spare heater or anything to go into the tank...so im guessing th answer should really just be no :( Im not sure if this has any positivity but I remeber when I 1st ever went to use this medication, I was a bit unsure about using it with my khuli loach so I decided to email the company and ask about using it with them, and they replyed and told me yes it was fine to use this product with all scaless fish, i use half dose just incase (which never got rid of the ich) so I emailed them again and they told me that if my ph was about 5 then it was completly safe to use full dose with all fish apart from mormoids (elephant nose fish) This probally has no relevance to the ADF but maybe if its safe enough for the khuli loach the hopefully its safe for the ADF? i also did a google search on ADF and protozin (the product im using) and have come across others that say they have used the product with no problem with ADF's, i guess im just grassping at the hope that they will deal with this ok :( do you think they wont really be affected by the temp being raised to what it is? thanks again for the help Lucy,
    Pearl
     
  6. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    Personally, I wouldn't take the chance but it's your call.

    Even if meds are safe for scaleless fish doesn't mean it's safe for ADF's
    ADF's absorb everything through their skin.

    I don't think the raised temps would bother them since they breath from the surface.
     
  7. frogbreeder Well Known Member Member

    I agree that ADFs are best kept in a single-species aquarium, for many different reasons, a couple of which Lucy has already mentioned, such as issues concerning water depth and feeding. ADFs prefer to live in very shallow, calm water, definitely no deeper than 12 inches, but 7-10 inches being optimal. Also, many filters which are designed for fish aquariums create too much current and disturb the water's surface too much for ADFs. A small submersible filter will work best (or no filter at all, provided complete water changes are performed on a regular basis). Assuming your water quality is adequate, this might explain why your frogs are attempting to escape, or they might simply feel threatened by your fish (ADFs will perceice larger fish as predators and smaller fish as prey). ADFs should never be fully out of the water, and if they are attempting escape, they are likely ill or unhappy for some reason. In the wild, ADFs will remain in the same body of water in which they are born for their entire lives, unless they are forced to leave it for some reason (i.e. water conditions become intolerable, lack of food, etc.). You were wise to cover the openings in your hood so they can't escape. It is best to use a piece of screen or plastic canvas for this (the type used for crafts, which is usually available at most dollar stores, works very well), in order to ensure adequate air flow. A piece of sponge will also work to fill any holes. Because frogs are air-breathing, if you seal the hood completely with material that doesn't allow for air-flow, the frogs could suffocate. Another reason it is best to house ADFs by themselves is that many fish (even if they are perfectly healthy themselves) can carry bacteria and other pathogens that are harmful, even fatal, for frogs. For this reason, the American Herpatological Society recommends ADFs always be housed in a single-species aquarium. If at all possible, it would be best to house your frogs in their own aquarium. It wouldn't need to be very large. A 5 gallon aquarium would be adequate for two ADFs (but a 10 gallon would give them a little more room to exercise their flippers, if you have one).

    Feeding a variety of different foods is best for ADFs. Although bloodworms are often recommended as a staple diet, they are not ideal. You are correct - bloodworms are too rich to use as a staple diet. Not only do bloodworms lack certain amino acids and essential nutrients required by ADFs, they are high in fat and relatively low in protein, compared to other foods, and they can be a source of harmful bacteria, especially if they have been stored improperly. There are many other foods you can feed ADFs, such as frozen mysis shrimp, brine shrimp, talapia fish (from the grocery store, fresh or frozen), beefheart, frozen glassworms, earthworms, etc. (for a more complete list of foods, please see the ADF caresheet for which Lucy has provided a link - it is an excellent resource, absolutely the most complete and accurate ADF caresheet available on the internet). Personally, I do not feed my commercial breeder frogs any bloodworms at all (because I think it is just too risky to do so) and I feed bloodworms to the frogs I keep as pets only very sparingly (once a week if that, as a treat). Since ADFs are predatory suction feeders, all food should be cut into bite-sized pieces. If an ADF must use it's forelimbs in order to eat the food, then it is too large and needs to be cut into smaller pieces.

    Usually, if an ADF encounters an obstacle while attempting to surface for air, such as the glass strips in your aquarium, it will usually move sideways slightly, before attempting to swim upwards again. So, I imagine given time, your frogs will learn where they can and can't surface. For this reason, tall conical- or dome-shaped ornaments should never be used with ADFs, unless there is an opening at the very top. Otherwise, the frogs could become trapped inside the ornament and drown. They aren't always smart enough to swim downwards and out the opening, before swimming upwards again, in order to reach the surface for air. Although they are very cute, admittedly, they are not necessarily the sharpest crayons in the box. That's alright though, because their cute appearance and amusing behaviour more than compensates for their apparent lack of intelligence. I hope this information is helpful. ADFs sure are adorable. - frogbreeder

    Sorry, I was interrupted while typing my post and didn't notice that more entries had been added. I think 82'F might be a little too warm for the frogs. They can tolerate it for short periods, but the increased temp. and presence of meds might explain why they are trying to get out of the water. If your quarantine tank is small enough to fit into your main tank, you might be able to use the main tank as a water-bath to heat the samller tank (obviously you'd need to find something to set the smaller tank on top of so that it's rim is out of the water).
     

  8. pearlypops Member Member

    I Frogbreeder, thanks so much for your very imformative reply. I have taken your advice and opinions on board and have today made some adaptions to the tank in hope that it will make my ADF'S happier. I have got rid of any orniments that dont have an open top and dome shaped and have replaced with orniments that now have no open entires into them but provide more hiding places. I have also done a big water chnage to get rid of as much medication that may still have remained from my last doage a few days ago and have lowered the water level to about 11inches |(which is lucky coz it sits about 5cm below my lid so looks fine) I have also pointed my filter nossle to the corner of the tank so the surface of the water isnt getting aggitated to much and its mostly pointed in one direction. I have now (slowly of course) reduced the temp of the tank to 80'F.I must admit since doing all of this they seem to be very active and are enjoing hitching rides on eachother and even on top of my corys! :) no fish even notices their presence in the tank whiich im very pleased with because I thought that my dwarf gouamri may had given a bit of a chase once he saw them swim to the top but he doesnt give them a 2nd glass! I went and brought another one today to add to the two I had and they seem to be alot more happier having the extra friend. I am so amazed by these cute frogs i love them to bits! thanks again for all your advice
    Pearl
     
  9. frogbreeder Well Known Member Member

    Pearl, sorry for the delayed response to your post. Unfortunately, I’ve had to be away from home and the internet quite a lot lately, often for several days at a time, and I’m not always able to reply as quickly as I’d like. My apologies. You’re more than welcome for the information, for what it’s worth. I’m relieved your frogs are no longer attempting to leave the water, because as Lucy and I both mentioned, such behaviour usually indicates that they are either ill or unhappy for some reason. Unfortunately, it isn’t always easy to figure out what’s causing them to try to escape. Such behaviour can be caused by anything from water quality or other water parameters (such as temperature, pH, water depth, and the presence of toxins) to aquarium design and the presence of tank-mates. In your case, however, I suspect your frog’s behaviour might have resulted from a combination of factors: the increased water temperature and the presence of medication, along with the stress of being introduced to a completely new environment. Provided your frogs are content, they should prefer to remain in the water at all times and you shouldn’t need worry about them trying to jump out, while you are performing tank maintenance.

    You were wise to perform a large water change to help dilute the meds, because frogs readily absorb toxins and medications through their skin. Also, lowering the water level, as you have done, will not only ensure that the frogs are able to surface for air on a regular basis without becoming exhausted, but it will also help to prevent your frogs from escaping, as well as ensure that there is an adequate volume of fresh air at the water’s surface for them to breathe. If the aquarium is filled right up to the top, the lights can heat-up the small amount of air available, making it uncomfortable for the frogs to breathe. Also, your diverting the filter’s output to minimize the amount of disturbance it creates and reducing the water temperature should make the frogs much happier. It’s great that your fish are not taking any notice of the frogs or attempting to hurt them in any way. I think the biggest challenge you’ll face keeping fish and ADFs in the same aquarium is making sure that the frogs get enough to eat. You can always hand-feed the frogs if necessary, but it sounds like everything is working out alright, so far.

    It’s great that you have bought another ADF, too, because they always seem to do best when they are kept in small groups. They are very social creatures with their own kind and really appear to enjoy each other’s company. Keeping them in multiples will ensure that there is some competition between them for food and encourage them to be active hunters. Sometimes, when an ADF is housed by itself, it can become lazy and lose its ability to hunt for food. I think this might explain why some people claim that ADFs are very passive eaters, but, in my experience, the opposite is true. More often than not, they can be very aggressive at meal-time. Although I’ve kept and bred ADFs for many years, I’m still just as fascinated by them today as I was the first time I saw them. I could watch them for hours on end (and, admittedly, often do). They are such amazing, little creatures. It’s difficult not to fall in love with them. They sure are cute, even if they aren’t always the brightest bulbs on the string. Again, sorry for the delayed response. All the best. - frogbreeder