Adriana’s 25-gallon Saltwater Build

Hmmm, that is weird. I've never had a mushroom that moved itself, so am no real help here. All I can say is that I lost a mushroom for a few weeks, only for it to eventually turn up, so I hope the same happens for you.

Sorry I've been a little absent! Life gets in the way sometimes but I'm trying to keep up. You can always shoot me a PM or a tag if you need me.

That’s all right. I’ll keep you all updated on what’s going on. Oh, and no worries. I completely understand

 

Turns out neither of the mushrooms moved. It’s just hard to tell them apart when they’re closed. The healthier one has been closed recently. He’s open today, but kind of bent. The other one that I’ve been having trouble with isn’t even visible.

Leptastrea is fine. The clown doesn’t mess with it much anymore. I’ve been trying to be even more gentle with the drawers and that seems to help.

All of the fish seem good. The wrasse has a tear on her tail. I don’t know where it came from. Probably the clown during feeding time. Looks like it’ll heal nicely, though.

Just tested phosphates. They’re very nice. I’d like to say they’re at 0.03 ppm, but it’s hard to tell the difference between that and 0.10, so I’ll just say it’s in between.

 

I’ve some very exciting news. I haven’t told you guys yet, but I’ve been photographing my corals’ growth for the past few weeks. The bird’s nest is growing like crazy! Can’t really tell with the Kenya tree, but I can assure you all that it has been by far the fastest grower. I don't bother taking pictures of the mushrooms because they seem pretty static. I couldn’t take a picture of the leptastrea before because it was closed, so I’m starting its growth photos today. Here are the results of my bird’s nest, side-by-side. You can see that the polyps have started growing on the rock (to the bottom right of the coral) Some of the newer branches (with white tips) are a little bit taller. This is after a little less than two weeks. I’m not showing the Kenya tree because it’s hard to see the growth.

 

I’ve run into a problem, I think. My Pygmy wrasse is lying on its side against a rock. Seems like it stuck itself there to sleep. However, it was there for the night and is still there this morning. She’s usually swimming around by now. I don’t know why and I don’t know what to do

EDIT: I got her out of the spot. She swam directly to the rocks. She’s just still now.

 

She moved herself back to the rock. I don’t know what to do about this. Please, someone respond. I’ll upload a picture. I haven’t seen her swimming around in a few days, so I’m assuming she’s been in this position the entire time. Is she just sleeping? If so, why hasn’t she woken up for so long? Every other fish is doing perfectly fine. I think I’m gonna go to my LFS today to pick up a new fish for the tank and get my water tested. I’ll ask them if they know what’s going on. As I’m speaking, she just moved from the spot back between the rocks. Kind of hard to see, but I’ll post a few photos. stella1979 I don’t know if anyone has had experience with Pygmy wrasses on this forum. I don’t see a lot of threads on them. If you do know what’s happening, though, I’d appreciate anything that could help. Thank you.

 

Awww, I wish I knew what could be wrong. Are there any other symptoms? Perhaps she's stressed and there's not actually a health issue at all, but I am worried as you've said this is unusual behavior for her. I don't have any experience with wrasses, but Lchi87 has one, so I'm hoping she'll say this isn't so unusual and can ease your mind.

Sorry, but I can't help but wonder about gut parasites. I don't like saying so, but without symptoms, I can only go on tank history. I would advise keeping a close eye and maybe moving her if possible. Whatever is ailing her may or may not have spread in the tank, and who knows if it is even 'catchable'. It could be that she is just stressed, or that you got an unhealthy fish and are only now being made aware. How long have you had her? The sad reality is that she may not make it, and we don't know what's ailing her, but nothing goes to waste in a tank... so the risk of other fish contracting something is higher if they (I'm so sorry) eat from the body. Please remind us how long you've had her. Sorry again, really, but I think it is a bad time to introduce a new fish.

 

Awww, I wish I knew what could be wrong. Are there any other symptoms? Perhaps she's stressed and there's not actually a health issue at all, but I am worried as you've said this is unusual behavior for her. I don't have any experience with wrasses, but Lchi87 has one, so I'm hoping she'll say this isn't so unusual and can ease your mind.

Sorry, but I can't help but wonder about gut parasites. I don't like saying so, but without symptoms, I can only go on tank history. I would advise keeping a close eye and maybe moving her if possible. Whatever is ailing her may or may not have spread in the tank, and who knows if it is even 'catchable'. It could be that she is just stressed, or that you got an unhealthy fish and are only now being made aware. How long have you had her? The sad reality is that she may not make it, and we don't know what's ailing her, but nothing goes to waste in a tank... so the risk of other fish contracting something is higher if they (I'm so sorry) eat from the body. Please remind us how long you've had her. Sorry again, really, but I think it is a bad time to introduce a new fish.

I’m not going to set up a quarantine anymore until I figure out this problem. I feel so bad for her. I got her a few months ago, I believe. She was always a very healthy fish until recently. She eats normally and her feces is fine. However, she hasn’t eaten in a few days because she hasn’t been able to see the food in the spot she’s in. I really hope this isn’t another outbreak of what I had previously.

 

Hey there! Sorry your wrasse is concerning you My wrasse is kinda shy sometimes but doesn’t hide like that typically unless I’ve upset him, like rearranging the rocks he likes to hide in. If yours is hiding all the time now, something definitely is up. How’s his color? Is anyone bullying him? And changes within the tank or outside around the tank?

 

Hey there! Sorry your wrasse is concerning you My wrasse is kinda shy sometimes but doesn’t hide like that typically unless I’ve upset him, like rearranging the rocks he likes to hide in. If yours is hiding all the time now, something definitely is up. How’s his color? Is anyone bullying him? And changes within the tank or outside around the tank?

When she started swimming back and forth between spots, she seemed a bit paler than usual. I previously mentioned a little nick on her tail, maybe from the clown during feeding. However, she is just as aggressive during feeding as the clown is, so she seems to handle her well. During the rest of the day, the clown doesn’t really interact with her. She likes to go in the goby’s caves once in a while, so I imagine the goby will chase her out every now and then and maybe nip her to give a quick scare. That’s all, though. Overall, she’s always seemed to handle the other fish fairly well. I haven’t made any recent changes to the tank for a long time. I’ve been trying to keep everything as stable as possible ever since the internal parasites were being eradicated. I noticed last week that one of the live rocks was a bit lower than I liked, so I moved it up a bit. It wasn’t a big change, though. She didn’t seem to care at the time. Maybe that’s why? I just don’t know why she’d react for three days in a row.

 

I suppose all you can do is keep an eye out for now. I hope she perks up soon!

 

I suppose all you can do is keep an eye out for now. I hope she perks up soon!

Okay. Thank you!

 

I just got home and she’s in the same position. LFS employee said it’s a thing with secretive wrasses, but I’m not so sure about that. Phosphates are basically at zero and so are nitrates. Didn’t get anything else tested.

 

Well... we can hope, and indeed I am. Hopefully, she's just in a funk. Of course, firefish are a much more timid species, but do you know my Scorch has hidden, (read: disappeared) and not eaten for up to 3 weeks before? Given, that was during and after a week long power outage, but more recently, he hid for nearly two weeks after the tank's temp went up by just 2 degrees for only a couple of days. He's a moody guy, so hoping you just have a moody girl there.

 

Well... we can hope, and indeed I am. Hopefully, she's just in a funk. Of course, firefish are a much more timid species, but do you know my Scorch has hidden, (read: disappeared) and not eaten for up to 3 weeks before? Given, that was during and after a week long power outage, but more recently, he hid for nearly two weeks after the tank's temp went up by just 2 degrees for only a couple of days. He's a moody guy, so hoping you just have a moody girl there.

I’m hoping the same Thanks for the responses, guys! I’ll keep you all updated.

 

She was definitely asleep against the rock this morning. I’m assuming that because she was paler than before. Hopefully she’ll be awake to eat this afternoon. She usually is.

 

Just fed the tank. She definitely isn’t eating as much as she used to, but she is lunging at the mysis. I can’t tell whether she actually digested anything or not. I really don’t want this to be the case, but her poop is white. Not stringy, just white. Maybe it’s just because she hasn’t eaten in a while? I know my platy’s feces turned white after I put her on a long fast. Maybe it’s the same thing? I don’t know. Even if it is an internal parasite, why is every other fish healthy? It doesn’t make sense. Surely, everyone else would have it. Right?

EDIT: I’m so tired of this issue repeating itself over and over again. I think I might use Prazipro in the display for two weeks and see what happens. It’s reef safe, according to this: Is this an okay idea? Seems kind of obvious that she has some sort of parasite. I have no idea why nobody else has it. Maybe the previous times they had it acted as a vaccination and now they’re resistant? I don’t know. All I know is she’s the only one affected and I need to do something about it. I’m gonna have to remove my carbon, so hopefully my phosphates don’t go up. Apparently, wrasses are sensitive to this treatment, so I need to be careful not to overdose. Pleaseeeee, somebody just let me know I’m doing this right before I go through with the Prazipro. I just don’t want her to die.

 

Lchi87 stella1979
Sorry to bother you two, but what do you guys think? Should I do Prazipro? I don’t really see another option. I’m not going for Metro because she doesn’t seem to digest the food.

 

I'm so, so sorry A. I can sympathize, so please know that I know just how this feels. Unfortunately, I can't give you the clear-cut answer that you want. I haven't seen any reports or any evidence of PrazI being anything less than gentle, but I only use it when fish are new or symptomatic. Well, can't say for sure that either applies here and if I were in your situation, I wouldn't want to upset the corals without a good reason. However, that is based on my own experience in my tank, and you need to make the decision based on yours and yours. This is a sort of mysterious situation, as is too often the case, so I will not blame you for trying what you think is best. I have had what I viewed as a negative experience with PrazI in our reef tank, but it was way back when we only had 3 corals, and it didn't kill them, but I swore never to dose the reef tank again. However, from what you've said, PrazI does seem like an option, and perhaps the only one, but only you can weigh the pros and cons.

I wish you luck and am really hoping she'll pull through.

 

Ugh what a tough situation... Wish I could help more but stella1979 is right, we can’t give you a straight answer here. I can only say that I medicate very cautiously since the wrong kind or a bad reaction can make things worse so definitely think it through. Prazipro has been gentle in my experience but I haven’t tried it on anything saltwater yet. :/ Keeping my fingers tightly crossed for you though. Hang in there!

 

That’s all right. I understand completely. Thanks for the help anyway! I’ve dosed a little bit more than a teaspoon to compensate for the extra six gallons (26-gallon tank). The bird’s nest retracted almost immediately, but its polyps came back out after a bit. I’ve seen a lot of people report specifically green bird’s nests (what I have) reacting this way to Prazipro and their other corals not reacting at all, which really interests me. Might be doing some research later about that. I removed all carbon and phosphate-removing media. Put it all in a ziplock bag. I’ll probably either use it again after this is all over (2-3 weeks) or simply buy new ones. After all, it’s been a few months since I replaced them. The wrasse is the same. Hopefully I see some results within a few days. I’ll continue with the updates. Thanks again!

 

She died today. I’m going through with Prazipro for two full weeks and will probably use Metro+ orally fed after the treatment is done for the same amount of time. I don’t know what else to do. I’m just so tired of this.

 

I'm so sorry. I don't even know what to think at this point and can only imagine how frustrated you're feeling. The plan sounds good but I know that is little comfort at this point.

I can tell that it took us a dang year to stock our reef tank so I can understand being sick and tired of dealing with the same problems over and over again. Things did eventually work out though and I know they will for you too. Hearing our stories, I don't think many would blame us for throwing in the towel, but I do think it's worth the effort, even if it doesn't always feel like it.

 

I'm so sorry. I don't even know what to think at this point and can only imagine how frustrated you're feeling. The plan sounds good but I know that is little comfort at this point.

I can tell that it took us a dang year to stock our reef tank so I can understand being sick and tired of dealing with the same problems over and over again. Things did eventually work out though and I know they will for you too. Hearing our stories, I don't think many would blame us for throwing in the towel, but I do think it's worth the effort, even if it doesn't always feel like it.

Thank you for helping me through this. You’ve been awesome, like I always say. I couldn’t ask for more. I’ll keep updating every once in a while if any of you are still interested. Thanks again. Hopefully this all gets better at some point. I may just have to start over if it doesn’t, but I really don’t want to think of that right now.

 

I’m so sorry too. Hang in there, it will get better.

 

Of course, we're still interested and we're here if you just need to talk. We all know how you feel and also know that it is sometimes difficult to find an understanding ear irl, but we're all aquanuts here, so feel free to vent.

 

So so sorry to hear... I pretty much went through the same thing you did in my 60 galloncube.
I had to pretty much tear down my tank to get every fish out and put them all in a QT, medicated, and had to go fallow in my display for 60 days.
As tiring it may seem, really, don't give up. It will get better.

I have gone through so much with my 60g... I was so ready to shut it down and be done with it.
But now? I'd like to share this picture with you before anyone else.
The 60 gallontoday.

 

So so sorry to hear... I pretty much went through the same thing you did in my 60 galloncube.
I had to pretty much tear down my tank to get every fish out and put them all in a QT, medicated, and had to go fallow in my display for 60 days.
As tiring it may seem, really, don't give up. It will get better.

I have gone through so much with my 60g... I was so ready to shut it down and be done with it.
But now? I'd like to share this picture with you before anyone else.
The 60 gallontoday.
View attachment 497075

Thank you so much! That makes me feel a lot better. Do you think going through two weeks of Prazipro and two weeks of Metro+ is a good start?

 

Thank you so much! That makes me feel a lot better. Do you think going through two weeks of Prazipro and two weeks of Metro+ is a good start?

Wait. I thought prazipro and metro do the same thing in terms of medication. Double check that.

I would do 2-3 weeks of prazI at least and go from there.

 

Wait. I thought prazipro and metro do the same thing in terms of medication. Double check that.

I would do 2-3 weeks of prazI at least and go from there.

Apparently, Prazipro doesn’t treat all internal parasites while Metro+ does.

 

Wait, HikarI Metro+? I thought that took care of internal infections but NOT parasites since metronidazole is an antibiotic, not an anti-parasitic? Just thinking out loud mostly because I have never once used metroplex or metro+ for anything internal parasite related...

 

Wait, HikarI Metro+? I thought that took care of internal infections but NOT parasites since metronidazole is an antibiotic, not an anti-parasitic? Just thinking out loud mostly because I have never once used metroplex or metro+ for anything internal parasite related...

I’m pretty sure HikarI Metro+ is for internal parasites.

 

I’m pretty sure HikarI Metro+ is for internal parasites.

Gotcha; I didn’t mean for it to sound like I’m challenging you, I just looked it up briefly and didn’t see mention of internal parasites but it did cover external and protozoan based stuff like ICH and HITH. Can’t hurt to double check this stuff once in awhile myself since I don’t consider myself an expert with diseases.

 

Okay... so allow me to try to clear things up here. Unfortunately, we do not have a whole lot of saltwater fish disease knowledge on Fishlore... yet. I do hope to help change that one of these days. For now, much of my own studying and thus, the knowledge I hope to gain and share here, comes from another forum. On R2R we can find the member, Humblefish, or Dr. Fish to a lot of reefers. Myself and others here have used his treatment plans successfully and indeed, his knowledge on medicating salty fish for internal parasites as well as the use of Metro in reef aquaria certainly adds to this discussion. So...





Sadly, in my own experience and that I've seen of others here, internal parasites, as well as brook, seem common in the hobby. So, Metro is indeed a good med to keep on hand, and info on how and why to use it is certainly good to know.

 

Okay, so now that everything’s cleared up, do you guys think Metro+ will be necessary after Prazipro?

 

I don't necessarily think Metro will be needed, mostly because the fish in question are still symptomless, yes? That could change I suppose but without being entirely sure what got the wrasse... I would be prepared and watch closely, but I would not medicate if the fish seem healthy. If I'm not mistaken, they've all been through this treatment before. For that reason, we also have to consider how repeated exposure to an antibiotic might affect them. Idk what the deal is with Metro, so I don't want to talk out of school. Perhaps it is very gentle and there is no worry about repeated use. I only know that I avoid Kanaplex as much as I can because a trusted source once told me that a fish can die from kidney damage if exposed to Kana more than once a year or so. Kana is a good resource but I cringe a little every time I see it recommended.ops: Then, there's the consideration for medication/antibiotic-resistance in the pathogens we deal with. These are the things that go through my mind when deciding if treatment is necessary. On the other hand, if fish are symptomatic, I am usually pretty quick to medicate. It's never an easy decision, but at some point, we know that it's either medicate or things are going to get a whole lot worse, and I'll always take my chances with the med in that case. I wish I could give you clear-cut answers to your questions... but there it is. Sometimes it seems like every little thing we do with our tanks is a gamble in some way or another.

 

I don't necessarily think Metro will be needed, mostly because the fish in question are still symptomless, yes? That could change I suppose but without being entirely sure what got the wrasse... I would be prepared and watch closely, but I would not medicate if the fish seem healthy. If I'm not mistaken, they've all been through this treatment before. For that reason, we also have to consider how repeated exposure to an antibiotic might affect them. Idk what the deal is with Metro, so I don't want to talk out of school. Perhaps it is very gentle and there is no worry about repeated use. I only know that I avoid Kanaplex as much as I can because a trusted source once told me that a fish can die from kidney damage if exposed to Kana more than once a year or so. Kana is a good resource but I cringe a little every time I see it recommended.ops: Then, there's the consideration for medication/antibiotic-resistance in the pathogens we deal with. These are the things that go through my mind when deciding if treatment is necessary. On the other hand, if fish are symptomatic, I am usually pretty quick to medicate. It's never an easy decision, but at some point, we know that it's either medicate or things are going to get a whole lot worse, and I'll always take my chances with the med in that case. I wish I could give you clear-cut answers to your questions... but there it is. Sometimes it seems like every little thing we do with our tanks is a gamble in some way or another.

I suppose I’ll skip Metro+, as is seems a bit ridiculous to treat them for a third or fourth time (lost count). Do you think the goby and clown are immune to this parasite, yet still carry it? Maybe that’s why the wrasse was the only one who was affected. Like you said, these two fish carry no symptoms. I’m just worried that this parasite is one of the few that can’t be fixed by Prazipro, but with Metro+ instead.

 

I'm sorry, I really don't know what to think. Either situation you've mentioned seems possible but idk if either is likely. I think if I were you, I'd call on Humblefish and be as thorough as possible with the history of both illness and treatment in this tank, as well as who has survived and who hasn't. It's a tough situation making a call on symptomless fish, so it's very important that all info is shared, as well as your thoughts on the possibility that the current fish are carriers. Without knowledge of the science of these pathogens, it's really impossible to say what's likely and what isn't. I'm sorry. I really do wish I had the knowledge to share.

 

I'm sorry, I really don't know what to think. Either situation you've mentioned seems possible but idk if either is likely. I think if I were you, I'd call on Humblefish and be as thorough as possible with the history of both illness and treatment in this tank, as well as who has survived and who hasn't. It's a tough situation making a call on symptomless fish, so it's very important that all info is shared, as well as your thoughts on the possibility that the current fish are carriers. Without knowledge of the science of these pathogens, it's really impossible to say what's likely and what isn't. I'm sorry. I really do wish I had the knowledge to share.

That’s all right. Thank you, Stella.

 

Hello. I performed a large water change today (30-40%) with a gravel vacuum to get rid of any eggs. I redosed the Prazipro. Bird’s nest is retracting again, but everything is fine other than that. Nothing bad happened last week. Do you guys think I should do another treatment next week or is two weeks of Prazipro enough?

 

Hello. I performed a large water change today (30-40%) with a gravel vacuum to get rid of any eggs. I redosed the Prazipro. Bird’s nest is retracting again, but everything is fine other than that. Nothing bad happened last week. Do you guys think I should do another treatment next week or is two weeks of Prazipro enough?

How is everything looking at this point? I finally figured out why my app wasn't working so I'm playing catch up