ADF Deaths

Discussion in 'Amphibians' started by Mmbrown, Jul 27, 2015.

  1. Mmbrown

    MmbrownWell Known MemberMember

    Hi everyone,

    I have had a single ADF in a 5 gallon tank for the past three years. He is doing wonderfully.

    About four weeks ago, my boyfriend and I set up a 20G long "Froghalla" and put 3 ADFs in it, with the intention of adding my original frog to the mix after two months.

    A few days ago, one of the frogs (the largest and thus least weak) turned up dead for no apparent reason. Yesterday I noticed one of the two remaining frogs acting very weak, being pushed around by my (incredibly low flow, barely moves the surface of the water) filter. This morning I found him dead. While the previous frog had looked normal (besides being dead, obviously!), this one had a very dark circle in the middle of his chest on the underside. I now have one remaining frog that is very small, and I'm worried about losing this one as well.

    I tested my water parameters and they are healthy (0/0/20).

    What are the symptoms of Chytrid besides the tattered sheds? I only saw one shed from one frog, and while it looked a bit questionable, it wasn't obviously in ribbons. Nevertheless, I'm wondering if this fungus could be responsible for the mysterious deaths.

    My other concern is that they are not/were not eating enough. I offered HBH pellets, which I've heard frogs can have trouble accepting. But, it was the largest frog that died first, and wouldn't they have been gonners much sooner if they hadn't been eating since I got them four weeks ago?

    I think if someone else posted this thread I would tell them that ADFs are often very sickly coming from the store and that these things happen with a weakened pool. (To clarify, the store where I got these 3 additional frogs was not the same I bought my original from. Admittedly, they came from a Petsmart-type store which has questionable stock and I don't fully trust the health of their animals. No offense, Petsmart.) But, I want other opinions. Also, what do I do now with the lone frog? How long until I can get more frogs (from a different store)?
     
  2. marijo

    marijoWell Known MemberMember

    Hello

    here's a sticky posted by Lucy about chytrid fungus
    https://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/amphibians/25348-chytrid-fungus-adfs-acfs.html

    That is really sad you loose your frogs, it's hard to tell what happend to them, it seems pretty hard to find healthy frogs in the stores. Yours might have been already ill or weak(we never know how long they went without food when buying them). I know they can go for a while without food, how long, not sure. Maybe try to spot feed your remaining one with frozen brine shrimps for a while, until you are sure that she is eating, adf's are really clumsy:) I am not sure what I would do with your frog, leave her in the 20 gallons for a least another month or best two months, if everything is fine, you could move your three years old with her and use your 5 gallons as a quarantine tank for some more frogs? I'm sure other members would have some better ideas
    :)
     
  3. Lucy

    LucyModeratorModerator Member

    Hi Mmbrown
    I'm so sorry about your frogs. :( That really stinks. It doesn't sounds like Chytrid, of course without lab tests we can never be 100% sure.
    I know you're looking for a reason but I think you answered your own question.

    I agree with marijo's plan.
    The quarantine time holds true with your newest frog. No other frogs should be added for 2-3 months minimum.
    If he is infected with something you don't want your new frogs catching anything and visa versa.

    Good luck and keep us posed.
     




  4. OP
    OP
    Mmbrown

    MmbrownWell Known MemberMember

    Thank you both for responding.

    It does really stink! I always get bummed with a loss, as I'm sure we all do. It bothers me most when there isn't a clear reason for it.

    I will try to double check that the remaining frog is actually eating and hopefully he can pull through! He is very small but maybe with some luck he won't succumb to whatever took the others.
     
  5. marijo

    marijoWell Known MemberMember

    if you would like to get two more frogs, you could set up a third tank, a kritter keeper with a small filter, that is what I used to quarantine my two new frogs(around 1.5 gallons) This way, you would not have to wait too long to have the four frogs you want for your 20 gallons
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Mmbrown

    MmbrownWell Known MemberMember

    Hi everyone,

    Again, thanks for the input. Sadly, the last frog passed as well. He was acting normal, and then I woke up one morning to him dead and covered in some kind of clear fungus.

    As we discussed earlier in the thread, I think ADFs are often sick at the store, and the place I bought from does not have very good stock in general. But, I am really concerned that it was something wrong with the tank. The plants that I have in there are growing well, and I did a water change. Is there anything else I can do before giving it another go?

    Thanks! And RIP dear little froggie friends <3
    -Morgan
     
  7. Lucy

    LucyModeratorModerator Member

    Aw, that stinks. I'm so sorry.

    No advice really except find another source.
     
  8. Anders247

    Anders247Fishlore LegendMember

    Sorry for your losses. :(
     
  9. marijo

    marijoWell Known MemberMember

    I'm sorry for you, that is sad :( I don't think something is wrong with your tank, you have good water parameters, they were weak when you got them, as Lucy mentionned, try another store
     
  10. frogbreeder

    frogbreederWell Known MemberMember

    Hi Morgan,

    I'm very sorry to hear about your new frogs. Given that you are an experienced frog-keeper, and given that your water parameters were fine, I suspect the frogs were already ill when you bought them. I also bought some new ADFs from a large, chain pet-store in my area recently and had much the same experience. Only one of three survived, and likely only because I used a combination of Maracyn one and two, as soon as I realized they were sick. As far as I could tell, it didn't appear to be chytrid though, although it's impossible to say for certain without testing for the fungus.

    As already suggested, you might want to try purchasing frogs from a different source, but as you likely know, most large chain-stores in North America buy from a single breeder in California. So, the outcome might be the same. You could always try starting them on some antibiotics as soon as you bring them home, just in case, but I'm not sure whether Maracyn is still readily available. I think Mardel was bought out by another company recently. - Sue
     
  11. 77Impala

    77ImpalaWell Known MemberMember

    I have found it hard to get good healthy ADF's.

    And it does not seem to be the dreaded Chytrid disease either. Out of 15 I have tried I have 4 healthy frogs. My LFS is very picky about what he brings in and is known to return whole shipments (all marine life) that were not healthy upon arrival.

    I wish I had an answer as to what is going on but sadly I do not.

    Keep trying though, you will find some new friends for your current ADF.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Mmbrown

    MmbrownWell Known MemberMember

    Hi everybody, thank you for all the responses! I will try again and hope to be luckier next time.

    Sue, I'm sad to hear about Mardel. I do have some Maroxy and Maracyn stocked up, but I'm not sure if it has expired by now.
     
  13. Lucy

    LucyModeratorModerator Member

    Mardel products are now distributed through Fritz Aquatics.
    Doesn't look like we can order from their website though.
     
     
  14. frogbreeder

    frogbreederWell Known MemberMember

    Admittedly, since I retired from the commercial breeding of these frogs, a couple years ago, I’m a little out of touch with the availability of medications for aquarium use. Lucy, thanks for the information. Do you know whether anyone else is producing aquarium grade erythromycin and minocycline that could be used to treat frogs, if it isn't possible to order them from Fritz.

    The Maracyns One and Two that I used were a few years past their expiry date, but, with the exception of some very, very old Maroxy, they were all I had on hand to treat sick frogs. As you know, very few medications are considered safe for use with ADFs. Being packaged in powdered form, I figured the unopened envelopes of Maracyn might still be effective. And, given the situation - it was painfully obvious that the remaining frogs were extremely ill and about to succumb too, if left untreated- I figured it couldn’t hurt to try the Maracyns I had.

    I used both medications at half-strength the first day, then increased the amount slightly each day of treatment after that. Although one of the two remaining frogs died on the second day, the other frog’s condition gradually improved. That was a few weeks ago, and she appears to have recovered fully. Her appetite has returned, and she is now eating ravenously (little piggy is actually beginning to get fat). She is much more active, no longer lethargic and floating excessively. And, her colour has returned to normal, her skin no longer has that sickly grey pallor that ADFs develop when they are ill.

    I don’t think she would have survived without antibiotics, so I assume that the Maracyn I used was still good, even though it was well past its expiry date. If you do buy more ADFs, and cannot find a new source for these medications, I definitely think it would be worth using the Maracyns you have, if necessary, or even prophylactically, as a precaution, as soon as you bring the frogs home. It’s a shame that it has become so difficult to find healthy ADFs lately. These little guys used to be quite hardy. All the best Morgan. - Sue
     




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