Adding Ammonia During Fish-in Cycle

I added my first two fish in my 20 gallon long yesterday. I added one Honey Gourami and one Bolivian Ram. The tank isn't cycled, its been up and running for two weeks. I dosed up to 5ppm ammonia on day 1, after 4-5 days it was down to about 1ppm, I dosed back up to 3ppm and started using Stability. I added Stability for seven days, got these two fish and now I'm in wait mode.

I'm "protecting" them using Prime, and they seem to be just fine as they're swimming around and very active and are also both eating. Because I have them in the tank now, I was just going to let their waste and food act as the ammonia source, but my question is how much ammonia will they create? I realize that's a difficult question to answer. Since Prime detoxifies A/N, it should be okay to add some ammonia to the tank if these two guys aren't producing very much, right?

I just don't want whatever BB I've built up to die since I added the full seven days of Stability. I'm not sure just two fish will provide the amount off ammonia needed to keep it all alive.

 

Don’t dose ammonia. That’s not going to end well. Two fish is plenty.

 

No need to add ammonia artificially. The two fish you have should be creating that on their own. Just keep feeding them and keep an eye on the nitrites to see how the 2nd stage conversion is going (nitrite to nitrate).

 

Alright I'll hold off on adding additional ammonia. Thanks for the responses.

 

Prime does NOT detoxify ammonia, and shouldn't be used for a protector.

It can make up to 1ppm of ammonia and nitrite combined, safe for fish anywhere between 24-48 hours.

You fish should be more than enough to start the cycle and keep it going.

 

Prime DOES detoxify ammonia.

 

Ok wow, fish in cycles are fine I do it every time but you picked two very sensitive fish, the likelihood of them dying even with prime is high. Bolivian rams are sensitive and so are gouramis. You picked bad fish to fish in cycle lol, go with skirt tetras for fish in

 

Ok wow, fish in cycles are fine I do it every time but you picked two very sensitive fish, the likelihood of them dying even with prime is high. Bolivian rams are sensitive and so are gouramis. You picked bad fish to fish in cycle lol, go with skirt tetras for fish in

We'll see I guess. Today is day 6 and they're doing fine. Day 19 overall of the cycle and it's still strange as ever, always around .5 ppm of ammonia, and still no nitrites or nitrates. It has to be the Stability that made things bizarre, I've never seen a tank cycle like this.

 

Maybe check your Ph? If it is too low, it can 'stall' your cycle. Just a thought!

 

All the additives do is bind the ammonia that is present at the time in such a way that it's not toxic to the fish. The fish will continue to produce waste and so the additive needs to be reapplied. The tests will still "recognize" the ammonia for what it is and the BB you are cultivating will still be able to process the bound up ammonia. Hope that helps.

 

All the additives do is bind the ammonia that is present at the time in such a way that it's not toxic to the fish. The fish will continue to produce waste and so the additive needs to be reapplied. The tests will still "recognize" the ammonia for what it is and the BB you are cultivating will still be able to process the bound up ammonia. Hope that helps.

Yeah, I researched all that before I decided to buy the fish. That's why I've been dosing Prime every other day.

Just tested right now and finally I have some nitrites, .25 reading. I assume the bacteria added using Stability are the nitrite to nitrate bacteria? If so the nitrites should remain in check provided the Stability bacteria survived. I'll definitely never use the product again though, I don't see the point as it didn't seem to speed anything up.

 

how many live plants do you have?
what water changes have you done?
I am confused how after 5 ppm went down to one and then 3 ppm went down to .5 yet you aren't getting any nitrates in your test results? are you using the API test kit? if so, did you super super shake nitrate bottle #2 and the test tube?
BB will not all die off, but they will die back to the scale of food available, in this case to the two fish you have added to the tank. That's why so many people recommended adding 2-3 fish max at a time to allow the BB to scale up to match them.

 

"Willed, post: 3677270, member: 101594"]how many live plants do you have?
what water changes have you done?
I am confused how after 5 ppm went down to one and then 3 ppm went down to .5 yet you aren't getting any nitrates in your test results? are you using the API test kit? if so, did you super super shake nitrate bottle #2 and the test tube?
BB will not all die off, but they will die back to the scale of food available, in this case to the two fish you have added to the tank. That's why so many people recommended adding 2-3 fish max at a time to allow the BB to scale up to match them.[/QUOTE]

I'm using fake plants only and yes the API test kit and I shake the out of the bottle/tube when I'm testing nitrates.

Since I set the tank up on 6/27, I've done one water change (2-3 days after adding the fish). It was probably a 90 percent water change, and I only did this because the tank wasn't level and it was driving me crazy. I drained all but maybe 2-3 inches of water, leveled the tank with the adjustable feet on the stand, and filled it back up. The next day the water was cloudy, the day after it was back to clear.

I too am confused by how the ammonia has gone down multiple times with no nitrites (until today). I created a separate thread about it a week or two ago. Doing some research it seems like sometimes nitrites won't show up at all during a cycle, it will go straight to nitrates. I figured that's what was happening but now today I see nitrites. Who knows, I assume it's the Stability.

 

"Willed, post: 3677270, member: 101594"]how many live plants do you have?
what water changes have you done?
I am confused how after 5 ppm went down to one and then 3 ppm went down to .5 yet you aren't getting any nitrates in your test results? are you using the API test kit? if so, did you super super shake nitrate bottle #2 and the test tube?
BB will not all die off, but they will die back to the scale of food available, in this case to the two fish you have added to the tank. That's why so many people recommended adding 2-3 fish max at a time to allow the BB to scale up to match them.

I'm using fake plants only and yes the API test kit and I shake the out of the bottle/tube when I'm testing nitrates.

Since I set the tank up on 6/27, I've done one water change (2-3 days after adding the fish). It was probably a 90 percent water change, and I only did this because the tank wasn't level and it was driving me crazy. I drained all but maybe 2-3 inches of water, leveled the tank with the adjustable feet on the stand, and filled it back up. The next day the water was cloudy, the day after it was back to clear.

I too am confused by how the ammonia has gone down multiple times with no nitrites (until today). I created a separate thread about it a week or two ago. Doing some research it seems like sometimes nitrites won't show up at all during a cycle, it will go straight to nitrates. I figured that's what was happening but now today I see nitrites. Who knows, I assume it's the Stability.[/QUOTE]

okay thanks for explaining. what had your nitrate readings been over the fishless cycle?

 

Always zero, I've yet to reach that stage.

 

well that is indeed very strange. I think something else may have happened to the ammonia during the fishless cycle, but I have no idea what! Nitrates don't just disappear when 5 ppm of ammonia (or 4) is processed.

 

If I read it right the OP isn't into the nitrate production phase of the cycleyet, he's still trying to get the nitrobacter up and running. It will take time. 2 fish of that size is not an issue though, their sensitivity might be but once you have 0 measured nitrites and the bacter are converting all the nitrites to nitrates you could conceivably double the stocking. That's assuming you have sufficient biomedia available for the BB to live on, which I would assume is the case. Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter take 7 and 13 HOURS respectively to reproduce. E. ColI as a comparison takes 30 minutes. Bottom line is it takes time to build that colony and that's under ideal conditions; the perfect temp and the perfect pH, is there the right amount of phosphate available etc... A few degrees in temp, a little less alkaline than what is optimal and those times I listed change, they get even slower.
Just my opinion but I say keep doing what you're doing but be patient, which I think you already know. It could be several more weeks still.

 

If I read it right the OP isn't into the nitrate production phase of the cycleyet, he's still trying to get the nitrobacter up and running. It will take time. 2 fish of that size is not an issue though, their sensitivity might be but once you have 0 measured nitrites and the bacter are converting all the nitrites to nitrates you could conceivably double the stocking. That's assuming you have sufficient biomedia available for the BB to live on, which I would assume is the case. Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter take 7 and 13 HOURS respectively to reproduce. E. ColI as a comparison takes 30 minutes. Bottom line is it takes time to build that colony and that's under ideal conditions; the perfect temp and the perfect pH, is there the right amount of phosphate available etc... A few degrees in temp, a little less alkaline than what is optimal and those times I listed change, they get even slower.
Just my opinion but I say keep doing what you're doing but be patient, which I think you already know. It could be several more weeks still.

I'm running two AC 30's, I have the stock sponge on the bottom, two layers of filter floss on top of that, and Fluval ceramic rings on the top. Both filters have a pre-filter on the intake, so I think I'm probably good on the media side. I was thinking of adding two more fish, but you're probably right, I'll wait until I start to see some nitrates.