Adding Additional Fish...

Hello... newbie Aquarium owner here. Not necessarily newbie to fish, we've had success with Bettas in the past (in the "typical" betta bowls, which I've just learned from reading through this site, is not really a good thing)... but, our last Betta (the one before the current one we have) lived for over 4 years.

We just purchased a 10 gallon tank last Saturday (12/26/09). We brought it home, set it up (filled it up, put in the heater and filter, [fake]plants and gravel) and got it running.

Now, I have to add, before I go on, that I've read a lot of articles (on this site and others) where people have stated that the big chain pet stores give you little to no (if not bad) information. I have to say, we received (I think) decent info from Petsmart. The woman there told us that we needed to run the tank for about a week before adding fish, but at a minimum, 3 days. (she also sent us home with a handful of literature, and I did some research on line, as well)

Having purchased the tank for my (impatient) 10 year old, we went back on the third day and purchased two Black Phantom Tetra's. (We brought in a water sample, and they tested it for us.. and the same woman suggested starting with two of the tetras, stating that they are fairly hardy fish... she was also aware that we wanted to put our Betta in the tank as well, and she said that the Tetras and the Betta should get along ok, depending on the Betta's temperment).

Anyway.... we added the Tetras and the Betta on Tuesday (12/29/09).

Ok, moving on with my story.... the water levels seem to be checking out okay as of right now (I'm aware of the cycling process, and I purchased test strips while at the store). Nitrite and Nitrate are both currently at 0, PH is at 6.8, and ammonia is inbetween 0 and 0.5. The water temp is currently 78 degrees.

Also, to add a little tidbit, along with the new gravel in the tank, I sprinkled in a half a handful of the gravel from the Betta's tank, in hopes that it would help the necessary bacteria growth.

Alright.... moving on to my question (one I forgot to ask at the store). How long should we wait before adding any additional fish. Now, I KNOW that the cycle isn't fully complete for what... 6 - 8 weeks, but since we only have a 10 gallon tank, and already have 3 fish in it, we can only add 2 more. And, I've read that Tetras prefer to swim in schools.

The 2 tetras and the betta in the tank now appear to be doing fine, so far (hopefully I didn't just jinx myself.. LOL)... I'm wondering though, if they'd be happier if they had two more fish to "school" with. My son want's two more tetras (slightly different coloring than these... I forget their "name" but they are of a similar size, and grow to the same adult size as these).

Okay.... I'm at the end of my speal... LOL.... So, how soon would be "ok" to add the last two fish?

Thanks!

 

Hmm, once you get the school of tetras and the single betta I think you might start having problems, the betta would have been best left alone, and then you could have 5 tetras in your 10G

 

welcome to fishlore! Unfortunately, your fishstore didn't really give you good information. They told me the same thing about just letting the tank run for a few days, but that doesn't do anything. The goal is to get the tank "cycled", and without an ammonia source, that can't happen.

If you get a chance, please read about the cycle in the link in my signature.

 

Platy ben..... I know, male bettas are best left alone, like I said, we've had bettas in the past, and had good luck with them.... But he was in a "betta tank" (not a small bowl, we actually purchased a 1 gallon betta tank with gravel and plant, etc...., but there was no heater and no filter). My son was adamant that the betta go in to the "nice" tank... LOL. And, after reading some of the articles from this site, I think he's happier in the bigger tank. Like it said in one of the articles, he is a VERY different fish in the new enviroment. More full of life, and OBVIOUSLY much happier (he was somewhat "placid" or at least "less active" in the Betta Tank).

Meenu........ I am aware of the Cycle (that's why I put some of the gravel from the betta's tank into the new tank, in hopes that the good bacteria would grow a bit faster). And, I know that some feel it to be unethical to cycle the tank with live fish in it. But, I've also read that the cycle goes smoother/better with live fish, so long as they're hardy fish. (given that, AND the fact that my impatient 10 year old wanted fish soon... so 3 days was as long as I could "put him off"....)


Thanks for the tips and info, though

 

Hmm, well he won't play nice with the tetras
Maybe you could persuade your son to like some corys A lot of bettas don't mind sharing their tank with cory catfish but I've never heard of success with tetras and bettas

 

Hmm, well he won't play nice with the tetras
Maybe you could persuade your son to like some corys A lot of bettas don't mind sharing their tank with cory catfish but I've never heard of success with tetras and bettas

They're not the Neon Tetras that (from what I've read) seem to be not as hardy as they were in the past, and hard to keep alive)... these are Black Phantom Tetras:


https://www.fishlore.com/profile-blackphantomtetra.htm

And so far, He's "played nice" with the two that are in the tank. ;D

Don't know if that makes a difference... LOL.....

 

Oops, I missed that bit about adding the gravel.

The test strips don't give very accurate results, most people prefer liquid tests. Most of the members of this website have API master test kit.

To answer your question, I would only add new fish to a tank after the cycle's been established about 2-3 weeks (by established, I mean completely done, with 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites, 20 or less nitrates), and then very few fish at a time so the ammonia doesn't overwhelm the bacteria colony. Also, if you are following the inch per gallon rule, your betta will take more than 2 inches, so you need to give him extra space when you calculate how many fish you can have.

I know so far the betta seems to be okay with the tetra... some members report that they've tried to have a betta in a community tank, and things are okay for a while and then one day a fish ends up dead or hurt. I know you don't want to move the betta, and it is your tank, but please consider that. I don't know how your son would handle waking up to injured fish, since I don't know his personality.

You may want to get a bottle of Prime water conditioner, because if you see an ammonia or nitrite spike, daily partial water changes with Prime will help your fish got through it with less trauma. Prime detoxifies ammonia and nitrites for 24 hours at a time.

edit: the gravel from the other tank will help. but won't cycle the tank all the way, which you recognize too. Just keep a very close eye on the water parameters and also the fish compatibility - those are the 2 big "issues" I see in your tank that could cause potential problems.


edit 2: are you using Cycle, stability, or any other bacteria boosters? The only one that works to establish a permanent cycle is Tetra Safe start.

 

Oops, I missed that bit about adding the gravel.

The test strips don't give very accurate results, most people prefer liquid tests. Most of the members of this website have API master test kit.

To answer your question, I would only add new fish to a tank after the cycle's been established about 2-3 weeks (by established, I mean completely done, with 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites, 20 or less nitrates), and then very few fish at a time so the ammonia doesn't overwhelm the bacteria colony. Also, if you are following the inch per gallon rule, your betta will take more than 2 inches, so you need to give him extra space when you calculate how many fish you can have.

I know so far the betta seems to be okay with the tetra... some members report that they've tried to have a betta in a community tank, and things are okay for a while and then one day a fish ends up dead or hurt. I know you don't want to move the betta, and it is your tank, but please consider that. I don't know how your son would handle waking up to injured fish, since I don't know his personality.

You may want to get a bottle of Prime water conditioner, because if you see an ammonia or nitrite spike, daily partial water changes with Prime will help your fish got through it with less trauma. Prime detoxifies ammonia and nitrites for 24 hours at a time.

edit: the gravel from the other tank will help. but won't cycle the tank all the way, which you recognize too. Just keep a very close eye on the water parameters and also the fish compatibility - those are the 2 big "issues" I see in your tank that could cause potential problems.

I know... and I have a feeling you might be right... I've been wondering if I can find (inexpensively) a smaller (probably 3 or 5 gallon) tank with a heater and filter for our Betta.... just so he doesn't have to go back into his old, COLD, unfiltered tank. I'd hate to have to take him out of his new, warm enviorment and send him back to the "dungeon"!!

Plus, you're right... I thought the Bettas adult size was 2 inches (that's why I was thinking 4 tetras and on betta for our 10 gallon tank). He's about 2 inches now, but having read that "most" bettas are already 6 months old or even older when you purchase them, I thought he was probably already fully grown. (and yes, I know our tetra's are not already fully grown... LOLOL.... they're only about an inch long right now)

I didn't know about the Prime Conditioner that tackles ammonia and nitrites. I do have the AquaSafe conditioner that takes care of the clorine and chloramines, but I didn't know there was one for ammonia... thank you.. I'll look for that.

Thanks for the info... I think our next trip to the pet store will be to see if I can get a small, heated/filtered tank for our betta....

 

I had no problems with my betta and some tetras (gold and rummynose) in my 10g, I know a lot of people advise against it but they all did fine. I'm using the 10 gallon for something else now and the betta is in his own tank, but really there was no aggression.

You might want to pick up either Prime (will detoxify ammonia for 24 hours, and it is a dechlorinator) or Tetra Safe Start (helps the tank to cycle/detoxifies ammonia). Aqua Safe is fine after the tank is cycled but the other two will help you out a lot in the beginning. Don't use both at once though, the Prime will cancel out the TSS.

 

Hmm, well he won't play nice with the tetras
Maybe you could persuade your son to like some corys A lot of bettas don't mind sharing their tank with cory catfish but I've never heard of success with tetras and bettas

This isn't necessarily true. The personalities of bettas vary quite widely and some do just fine with peaceful community fish. I'd suggest a backup plan in case it doesn't work out, but I wouldn't automatically anticipate problems.

 

I use Aquasafe too. Prime does the same stuff the Aquasafe does, plus the (really important) extras with the ammonia and nitrites. What is really great is it doesn't remove them, leaves them there to establish the cycle. It detoxifies them so they aren't harming your fish.

I am not sure if you already know, but even with hardy fish, exposure to ammonia and nitrites burns their gills and causes organ damage. In most cases, even if they survive the cycling, they will be left with shortened life spans. I am not saying this to pick on you or make you feel bad. I'm just trying to explain why it is so important that you wait at this point to get more fish. I cycled with fish, and I saw their gills turn red and their fins clamp because they were stressed and being poisoned from the ammonia.

Picking up a tank for your betta sounds like a great idea.

Your son is lucky that you are doing this for him, and that you are trying so hard to do it right, with consideration for what is best for the fish and not just what will make him the happiest. You're teaching him good life lessons, and setting him up to be a responsible pet owner.

 

Thanks for the kind words (compliments)... and ya... I'm trying to appease both my son AND the fish... LOLOL....

I think I'll look into a small heated/filtered tank for the Betta (even if I don't put him in right away... as some said, he "may" be ok with the others.. but as a "back up plan" in the event...) like I said before, I DON'T want to put him back into that other "betta" (dungeon) tank. Even though we had luck with bettas in the past in betta bowls and "special" betta tanks... I was amazed to read in the article (not sure if it was on this site, or another) that said there's a difference between "surviving" and "thriving".... and our last betta (the one before this one) lived over 4 years.... I'm now left wondering.. did he "survive" for 4 years, or was he miserable for those long 4 years?!?!?

We've had our current betta for about 2 or 3 months... and he's spent that time in a "betta tank"..:-[


Here's a quick thought, that I just had about moving him again, though..... If I can get my hands on a small 3 - 5 gallon heated/filtered tank for him.... would it be more helpful in moving him if I (A) use the remaining gravel and [fake] plant from his "betta tank" in his new tank, and (B) fill it at least 50% with the water from the 10 gallon tank (during my next tank cleaning on the 10 gallon that he's currently sharing with the tetras? )

Again... thanks all for the info.... I've learned MUCH more here, to add to what I already read in articles (both on THIS site, as well as others).... your tips and recommendations are MUCH appreciated!

;D

 

P.S... adding... MEENU... I knew NOTHING about the "red gill" thing, until I started reading the articles at THIS site.... the FUNNY thing is.... the two tetras had "red gills" when we got them... but since we've put them in our tank, the red has gone away....

I had NO CLUE before (thought it was a "natural marking"), but NOW know to look for it, and not purchase any if they have red gills!!

thanks!

 

I just bought my betta a tank at walmart. Its 5 gallon glass with a hood,light, filter and a couple of cute little plants thrown in for $30.00. All I had to add was the gravel and a heater. It really makes a cute betta tank.

 

the bacteria won't survive long without ammonia, so I'm not sure if the bacteria are still in your betta tank. Has it been kept wet, and how long has it been without fish?

 

the bacteria won't survive long without ammonia, so I'm not sure if the bacteria are still in your betta tank. Has it been kept wet, and how long has it been without fish?

I kept the water in it "just in case" the Betta dove in and "attacked" the tetras, and I'd cleaned the tank the day before I moved him (so the tank was cleaned on Monday,12/28/09) I moved him Tuesday 12/29/09... so, that makes three days without a fish in it.

P.S... editing to add... and I was using the Nutrafin Betta Plus Conditioner every time I cleaned the Betta tank!

 

I don't know if the gravel would still have any bacteria or not, but it can't hurt, right? I say add it. If it doesn't match the new decor, you can put it into a sock and put it into the tank, leave it for a few weeks, than pull it out and throw it away.

 

Wecome to FishLore!

I would just go with all new water in the 5 gallon. Water from the 10 will contain ammonia.

I think that I would be more concerned about the Black Phantoms nipping the Betta's tail than the Betta attacking the Tetras. I believe the Black Phantoms have a reputation for being fin nippers.

 

Wecome to FishLore!

I would just go with all new water in the 5 gallon. Water from the 10 will contain ammonia.

I think that I would be more concerned about the Black Phantoms nipping the Betta's tail than the Betta attacking the Tetras. I believe the Black Phantoms have a reputation for being fin nippers.

Wow... ya, I've heard of fish doing that, but from the "few" days I've been observing our two Black Phantoms... they seem VERY passive..... I wouldn't have thought that they'd do that.. but of course, the more used to the tank they get.... I can see it.

thank you!!

 

Wow... ya, I've heard of fish doing that, but from the "few" days I've been observing our two Black Phantoms... they seem VERY passive..... I wouldn't have thought that they'd do that.. but of course, the more used to the tank they get.... I can see it.

thank you!!

I think it is also due to their personalities changing as they mature. For example if you go to the fishstore they have a bunch of Dwarf Gouramis in a small tank and they seem to leave each other alone. But if you buy two and put them in a smallish tank, without enough hiding spots and they will eventually start to fight.

 

The 5 gallon tank will be fabulous for the betta That is a very nice size for the fishies. I would, however, suggest trying to get your hands on some Tetra Safe Start as another member suggested. You can use it on both your new tanks, and should be cycled in a week. This way you can spare your fish the weeks of discomfort from the cycling process. The tetras will need a group of at least 5, or they will not be nice. I would go ahead and move the betta. This will enable you to get a larger school of tetras for your 10 gallon and make your Betta a happier fishy. They do, in fact, prefer to live alone.

 

Thank you.... yes, I think that's what's going to happen. I was going to go today, but it snowed pretty heavily over night and we just finished shoveling out, and I have to to go work in a little while,.... so we'll probably be heading there tomorrow (so long as it stops snowing before then!!) for the Tetra Safe Start and the other tank.

Thanks.... I'll let you know how it goes.