Added small dose of Aquavitro Carbonate which raised pH, now both KH and pH are lower again??

Using the emergency template for info purposes:
Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? ~45g
How long has the tank been running? ~6months
Does it have a filter? yes
Does it have a heater? yes
What is the water temperature? 24C
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
~9 red rili shrimp
quite a few mini ramshorn snails (pests)

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? every week
How much of the water do you change? 15%
What do you use to treat your water? Seachem Equilibrium, Flourish, Potassium, Aquavitro Carbonate, Prime
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Mostly just water

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? yes
What do you use to test the water? API master test kit + API GH/KH test kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 6.6
GH: 7
KH: 0-1

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Once every 3 days
How much do you feed your fish? Tiny amount
What brand of food do you feed your fish? New Life Spectrum Invertebrate
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? no

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 3-4 months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? today
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Raised KH with Carbonate, pH significantly increased (+0.6). Now both are down to almost original levels.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? No
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? N/A

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

I was advised to slightly raise my pH and KH from 6.4 and 0-1 to 6.8 and 2 respectively. My lfs advised to use Aquavitro Carbonate which should increase both. I tried to dose slowly (directions say 49 mL per 25 gallons raises KH by 2.8). I dosed approximately 30mL over the span of a few hours to the ENTIRE tank while performing a 15% water change (tap water approximately 7.0pH and 0-1KH). The next day I checked my pH and to my shock went up to 7.0.... KH levels read about 1-2. Now tonight, my most recent water tests showed pH of 6.6 and KH of 0-1. I'm at a complete loss at what happened here.
Unfortunately, due to these events I lost a few shrimp, and considering the parameters went back to their original values its as if it was all for nothing. I'm too scared to try to dose carbonate again without additional advice.

One additional note worth mentioning is that during the water change, I re-added a pack of fluval activated carbon to my filter and while adding it back into the tray, some of the carbon dust bits leaked into the water creating a hazy view for a few minutes. I'm not sure if this may have caused the crazy pH swing?

 

Chasing the numbers is futile at best, and as you have seen, can lead to zero end results and less than healthy, or dying livestock. You need your water to be stable more than perfect. Our resident guru mattgirl would advise putting crushed coral in your filter. This will slowly raise your pH and KH without stressing or shocking your stock. Hopefully, she will be able to advise you a little better than I can.

 

I agree with Mongo75 Crushed coral is the most natural way I know of to raise and stabilize your pH. I can't tell you exactly how much it is going to take to stabilize your water since the amount depends on the chemistry of your water. Start out with about 1/2 cup of it. Put it in a media bag, rinse all the coral dust off it and put the bag in your filter. If you don't rinse the dust off it will shoot your pH up too quickly. Keep an eye on your pH level. If it hasn't gone up to the same level as your source water in 2 or 3 days, add more. If it has gone higher than you want it to be, remove some.

The beauty of using CC is once dialed in it will continue working for quite a while. Keep an eye on the pH level. Should it start dropping you will know it is time to add more. I have only had to add more a couple of times over the 4 years I have been using it in my tanks.

 

As mentioned above, adding crushed coral (aragonite) to my filter made all my ph nightmares go away. You can find it on Amazon. A little goes a long way.

 

I'm just going to say it...

pH 6.6, KH 0-1, GH 7 are arguably the perfect numbers to start with.


What substrate are you using?

 

Thanks for the quick replies everyone!
Chanyi I'm using Tropica Aquarium Soil/powder
I'll look into where I can get some crushed coral. So from my understanding, crushed coral will raise pH until its in equilibrium which is approximately 7.0? How would I perform water changes then since the tap parameters will be different than the tank's? (mainly a KH difference since my tap is already at 7.0). My tank has shrimp in it which are very sensitive to parameter changes. Adding richiep, do you have any experience using this?

 

Thanks for the quick replies everyone!
Chanyi I'm using Tropica Aquarium Soil/powder

Tropica aquarium soil is designed to strip the water of all KH and drop the pH into the low/mid 6's.

 

Tropica aquarium soil is designed to strip the water of all KH and drop the pH into the low/mid 6's.

Oh man... this would explain so much and yet creates new problems.

 

Oh man... this would explain so much and yet creates new problems.

I don't see any problems? It's doing what it's supposed to.

Active soils are best used on tank where the source water has low or no KH. the substrate will buffer the water to be ideal for plants and most tropical fish (African cichlids and livebearers excluded).

As you continue to add KH to the water, the substrate will "fill up" until it can no longer strip KH. Then the tank will resemble what the source water does in terms of parameters. Could take a few months to years depending on the KH of the source water.

 

Oh I agree that the soil is doing exactly what its supposed to. But unfortunately I didn't know this and as a result won't be able to get my KH and pH to rise to the level I want. Honestly I think maybe the best solution at this point would be to accept the "natural" parameters my soil gives and look at other shrimp to keep.

 

Crushed coral adds more kh and dose little for ph only rising a little and kh buffers the ph from high swings, a swing of .4 will kill,this is why I tell anyone keeping shrimp to keep away but its up to the individual, plus depending on your tap water depends on how long the colal lasts, you could be changing out every few months, once you start messing with parameters your messing with trouble,
A ph of 6.6 over time will add to moult issues,stress,lack of growth, lack of young, their feeding habits also become affected all this leads to a shorter life, i tell anyone with problematic water to change to ro water where you have complete control, and it doesn't cost much from your lfs,

 

Crushed coral adds more kh and dose little for ph only rising a little and kh buffers the ph from high swings, a swing of .4 will kill,this is why I tell anyone keeping shrimp to keep away but its up to the individual, plus depending on your tap water depends on how long the colal lasts, you could be changing out every few months, once you start messing with parameters your messing with trouble,
A ph of 6.6 over time will add to moult issues,stress,lack of growth, lack of young, their feeding habits also become affected all this leads to a shorter life, i tell anyone with problematic water to change to ro water where you have complete control, and it doesn't cost much from your lfs,

Thank you, with my natural pH being around 6.4 (+/- 0.2), is there a specific type of caridina you'd recommend? I know different types have different parameter needs, and the caresheets I've come across have been quite inconsistent in regards to each species' ideal pH.

 

Whats your gh before adding anything

 

0-1, next to nothing. I've been using Equilibrium to raise GH.
Edit: its worth mentioning I've had success adding this in and the GH seems pretty stable.

 

Your not far off for crystal reds or black bee
Ph 6.4-6.5
Gh 4-5
Kh 2-3

 

Your not far off for crystal reds or black bee
Ph 6.4-6.5
Gh 4-5
Kh 2-3

It seems all the guides say CRS should have a KH of 0-1? My substrate eats up all KH so I wont be able to get it to this value.

 

Kh only buffers ph to stop it fluctuating if its between 0 and 4 will make no difference, ph and gh are the killers my crs are in3 and have been for years with a kh of 3 makes you tank safer from fluctuations let it go to zero and you can induce a ph crash

 

That makes sense. So its not necessary but its riskier to have it very low. I'll be giving it some thought.
I feel the only other choice to continue keeping my current neos would be to completely change the substrate, but that's not really viable for me (55 gallons and a planted tank LOL).

I'm assuming there's no other hardier shrimps that would thrive in my current parameters eh?

 

With your original figures you'll probably find cherries survive and breed its only the ph6.6 is low which can have long term affects but if you have regular new young breeding you will hold your own but they may not live as long because of issues I mentioned above, its worth trying with what you have just watch th ph swing

 

I agree with Mongo75 Crushed coral is the most natural way I know of to raise and stabilize your pH. I can't tell you exactly how much it is going to take to stabilize your water since the amount depends on the chemistry of your water. Start out with about 1/2 cup of it. Put it in a media bag, rinse all the coral dust off it and put the bag in your filter. If you don't rinse the dust off it will shoot your pH up too quickly. Keep an eye on your pH level. If it hasn't gone up to the same level as your source water in 2 or 3 days, add more. If it has gone higher than you want it to be, remove some.

The beauty of using CC is once dialed in it will continue working for quite a while. Keep an eye on the pH level. Should it start dropping you will know it is time to add more. I have only had to add more a couple of times over the 4 years I have been using it in my tanks.

I've just had contact with another member who as used coral in a 5.5g that as pushed her kh from zero to 4 which as stabilised her dropping ph which was ph 7.4 kh 0 the coral as now pushed the kh up to kh4 and holding ph at 7.4, I'm trying to build up some information here and would be interested in how long your coral as held your ph stable,

 

I've just had contact with another member who as used coral in a 5.5g that as pushed her kh from zero to 4 which as stabilised her dropping ph which was ph 7.4 kh 0 the coral as now pushed the kh up to kh4 and holding ph at 7.4, I'm trying to build up some information here and would be interested in how long your coral as held your ph stable,

I have been running it in my tanks for at least 4 years. Every once in a while I run the pH test to make sure it is still holding at 7.2 A month or so ago I got a 7.0 reading. That told me it was time to add a bit more to replace what had dissolved or to rinse it off. I ran the test again a few days after rinsing and replenishing it and the pH was back up to 7.2. I actually think it will continue working up until all of it has dissolved as long as it is rinsed off occasionally. I may not have had to add more. Rinsing it off may have done the trick but adding more chunks wasn't a problem.

I keep mine in a media bag. I pull it out every few months and give it a good rinse off to get the buildup of muck off it. Lots of folks use arogonite. It is coral ground down to tiny pieces. Not quite sand but close. I actually use chunks of coral. It is pieces up to an inch. I do have some arogonite and have tried it. It works but one needs to be careful with how much they use and keep an eye on it. It seems to dissolve much quicker than the chunks.

I had some of the arogonite in a media bag. When I took it out to rinse it no matter how long I rinsed it the water kept turning white. That told me I can't handle it like I do the chunks. With it I would just rinse the dust off some new coral and replace instead of rinsing and reusing.

 

I have been running it in my tanks for at least 4 years. Every once in a while I run the pH test to make sure it is still holding at 7.2 A month or so ago I got a 7.0 reading. That told me it was time to add a bit more to replace what had dissolved or to rinse it off. I ran the test again a few days after rinsing and replenishing it and the pH was back up to 7.2. I actually think it will continue working up until all of it has dissolved as long as it is rinsed off occasionally. I may not have had to add more. Rinsing it off may have done the trick but adding more chunks wasn't a problem.

I keep mine in a media bag. I pull it out every few months and give it a good rinse off to get the buildup of muck off it. Lots of folks use arogonite. It is coral ground down to tiny pieces. Not quite sand but close. I actually use chunks of coral. It is pieces up to an inch. I do have some arogonite and have tried it. It works but one needs to be careful with how much they use and keep an eye on it. It seems to dissolve much quicker than the chunks.

I had some of the arogonite in a media bag. When I took it out to rinse it no matter how long I rinsed it the water kept turning white. That told me I can't handle it like I do the chunks. With it I would just rinse the dust off some new coral and replace instead of rinsing and reusing.

OK thanks that's great, have you ever had a ph drop or crash, in drop I mean .4 in one go, or complete crash or is the drop .1 at a time

 

OK thanks that's great, have you ever had a ph drop or crash, in drop I mean .4 in one go, or complete crash or is the drop .1 at a time

You are so very welcome. Fortunately no, I've never had an actual pH crash. I started using the CC when I saw that the 7.2 pH in my source water was dropping down to 7.0 or maybe a tiny bit lower. Since I wasn't running the test daily I don't know if it dropped gradually or if it happened all at once.