Question Add Fish When Cycling?

GuppyDazzle

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I never use cycle boosters. There's general agreement that the bottled bacteria don't work as advertised. I know lots of people use the magic potions, buy more and keep adding, but I'm still not convinced. I've successfully cycled dozens of tanks with fish in, completely controlling the process with frequent testing and water changes, with no bad effects on the fish. With cycle boosters you can't do water changes, you can't see what's going on with your cycle, and you just dump the stuff in and pray. Then you buy more and dump it in and pray.

Almost every single problem with cycling you read about on this forum is from people using cycle boosters.

With bottled bacteria you can't see what's going on with your cycle (see the comments on "no nitrites"). With natural cycling you can see exactly what's going on with ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates, and it always follows a logical progression.

If bottled bacteria is effective, why does the manufacturer recommend using it every water change? Could it be that it's not the right bacteria?

How does the bacteria stay alive on the shelf at the warehouse and at the fish store?

It takes four to six weeks to let nature take its course. How much shorter is the cycling process with bottled bacteria? It's not instant, I don't care what the advertising says.

Just my two cents. I get tired of looking at these threads with people pulling their hair out trying to cycle their tanks with bottled bacteria. "Is my tank cycled yet?" "What's happening with my cycle?" "Where are my nitrites?" And the answer is always "Go buy another case, and dump in a bottle every day, then in a month or so you'll be cycled." In my opinion these tanks cycle in spite of adding the magic potion, not because of it. Because people can't see what's going on with their tests (you might as well throw away your test kit if you're using magic bottled bacteria), people add fish that promptly die.

I'd rather be a little patient, see exactly what's going on with the cycling process, and completely control it with water changes.
 

Anders247

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General agreement that which bottled bacteria don't work, exactly? Like I said, TSS is the best one and many members over the years I've been on here have both recommended it and said it has worked for them. Same for me.
 

GuppyDazzle

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General agreement that which bottled bacteria don't work, exactly? Like I said, TSS is the best one and many members over the years I've been on here have both recommended it and said it has worked for them. Same for me.
I know my opinion on this is in the minority. Lots of respectable fish folks swear by the stuff and I respect that, and I believe they've had success using cycle boosters. I also believe most of the people who are successful using cycle boosters also have a comparatively high level of knowledge of aquariums, and that knowledge makes or breaks the process.
 

Wraithen

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Well, ... 10 year's ... Wow, Impressive. :banghead:

I've been doing this for over 40 years and I think If you truly been doing this for the 10 years as you say you've been in this hobby, ... then I think you have been doing this long enough to know what you said is utter hogwash with no plausible excuse to rely on for your misstatement. Just because YOU cannot wrap your head around the science and understanding of how these newfangled types of product's work, doesn't mean that it's "Snake Oil" as you say. It just simply means you don't understand it is as the rest of us do, ... fine. But to say that it's Snake Oil is just careless at best.

Seachem never told you it was for "Emergency Use Only", ... That my friend I know did not happen. It is a dechlorinate and that's it. It's emergency benefit's is the same as any other brands.

Either your missing some basic understanding of how things work or your being willfully blind. So let's go over a few basics.

Fish DO NOT require Beneficial Bacteria (BB) to survive, ... PERIOD!
A fish can live on a constant supply of dechlorinated water. Plant's not so much.
A fish could survive it's entire naturally long life in an aquarium without a single living BB ever having existing in the tank.
The ONLY benefit BB has in your aquarium is for YOU and your plant's. Without it it's a lot of work on your end.

I do agree we should only be helping with CORRECT information by avoiding Myth's and lies. But the only false information being said in this thread is what your saying about BB supplement's.

The whole key is to use a Dechlorinator WITH a BB supplement.

Regards
Bill
Just to tag in for second bill,

Also, api isn't anywhere near the best test kit. It just happens to be cheap, available, and decent enough.

Anyone who just parrots things needs to re examine their positions periodically. Tss, one and only, and some other products have figured out how to do this. I have never gotten a fish less cycle to work. Ever! I have kept a cycle going while fishless and made it more robust, but every single fish tank I set up has been fish in with tss+.

And honestly, your tax stamp to the state to be a breeder doesn't mean anything to anyone. We all have plenty of instances with business owners who have been selling fish for decades still getting plenty wrong. Stop spamming threads because you feel your way is the only correct and morally superior one. It doesn't help the OP, and discourages anyone from providing the info the OP wants.
 

Momgoose56

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I know my opinion on this is in the minority. Lots of respectable fish folks swear by the stuff and I respect that, and I believe they've had success using cycle boosters. I also believe most of the people who are successful using cycle boosters also have a comparatively high level of knowledge of aquariums, and that knowledge makes or breaks the process.
I think the trick to using bacteria cultures is timing. In cycling, AOB starts first, replicates relatively rapidly and consumes ammonia rapidly. Commercial bacterial cultures provide those cultures with a finite amount of ammonia when packaging that is consumed fairly quickly. As those cultures age, AOB deplete the available ammonia source and often end up dying before the bottle hits the consumers hands. NOB on the other hand, replicate and consume nutrients at about half the speed of AOB. They survive shelf storage much longer. I think this is why many people who use bacterial cultures see ammonia spiking in a new aquarium, but never see nitrites- because the AOB that were in the bottle are dead and gone but NOB are still viable.
Timing- if you dump a bacterial culture consisting of NOB and no AOB in a brand new tank that is not processing ammonia at all, and therefore contains no nitrites, those NOB are going to die off as well. So what works best from a biological perspective and logically, is to cycle the tank with pure ammonia until AOB start producing nitrites-THEN dump your bacterial culture full of still viable NOB, in the tank. You are putting those bacteria in a nutrient rich tank and ensuring that they will survive. Just makes sense. I'll cycle a 10g over the summer this way and let ya'll know what happens blow by blow...
 

BillCNC

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Just to tag in for second bill,

Also, api isn't anywhere near the best test kit. It just happens to be cheap, available, and decent enough.

Anyone who just parrots things needs to re examine their positions periodically. Tss, one and only, and some other products have figured out how to do this. I have never gotten a fish less cycle to work. Ever! I have kept a cycle going while fishless and made it more robust, but every single fish tank I set up has been fish in with tss+.

And honestly, your tax stamp to the state to be a breeder doesn't mean anything to anyone. We all have plenty of instances with business owners who have been selling fish for decades still getting plenty wrong. Stop spamming threads because you feel your way is the only correct and morally superior one. It doesn't help the OP, and discourages anyone from providing the info the OP wants.
  1. I never said API was the best at anything.
  2. I alway's give personal examples of my experience so, ... When did I parrot anything?
  3. TSS, ... (Tetra Safe Start), ... Iv'e never used the stuff.
  4. Breeder's Tax Stamp? Can you show me anywhere I said I have one? Iv'e been breeding for over 40 year's but never went through any program, nor can you point to where I stated such a thing.
  5. NOWHERE have I EVER stated my way is the best, ... EVER! I have only simply pointed out what has worked for myself and I also provide links from well known sources.
  6. Spamming? ... Perhaps you should read the definition of Spamming. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spamming
  7. My way, ... is "MY" way and I don't force it on anyone, ... it's simply my way. I am willing to share the way I do thing's as I am an open book. If one want's to hear it, ... go ahead and read what I said. If someone doesn't, ... then don't read it.
  8. Again, I force nothing on know one.
  9. Read my signature
Regards
Bill
 

Wraithen

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  1. I never said API was the best at anything.
  2. I alway's give personal examples of my experience so, ... When did I parrot anything?
  3. TSS, ... (Tetra Safe Start), ... Iv'e never used the stuff.
  4. Breeder's Tax Stamp? Can you show me anywhere I said I have one? Iv'e been breeding for over 40 year's but never went through any program, nor can you point to where I stated such a thing.
  5. NOWHERE have I EVER stated my way is the best, ... EVER! I have only simply pointed out what has worked for myself and I also provide links from well known sources.
  6. Spamming? ... Perhaps you should read the definition of Spamming. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spamming
  7. My way, ... is "MY" way and I don't force it on anyone, ... it's simply my way. I am willing to share the way I do thing's as I am an open book. If one want's to hear it, ... go ahead and read what I said. If someone doesn't, ... then don't read it.
  8. Again, I force nothing on know one.
  9. Read my signature
Regards
Bill
Whoa whoa! I was piggybacking off you! Sorry for the confusion!
 
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