Add buffer in 2:1 ratio for pH of 7.0 and incr. KH

My tapwater is extremely soft and measures near enough to zero hardness. As well as adding coral to the tank, I am adding some Seachem buffers.

Seachem's alkaline buffer states that , at the recommended dose, it raises alkalinity by 2.8 dkh (50mg/l), and the acid buffer says it lowers it by 0.6 dkh (10mg/l). Using them at a 2:1 ratio to target pH of 7.0, as per the bottles instructions, seems to raise my KH by about 1 step on my test strip colour chart - which corresponds to about 40mg/l. So that's close to predicted is it not?

So, as the coral starts to have an effect (in the same way as the Seachem alkaline buffer does), I expect to see that 40mg/l reading rise slowly, and pH to rise as well, should I then occasionally add some acid buffer? I know, and have read, posts about how pH-down is negatively viewed. However, it just seems logical to add a bit to avoid the rising pH as my KH rises from the coral's contribution.

 

Do yourself a favour and stop the mixing and matching. What you're doing is the kind of pH (or rather KH) chasing everybody is warning about. Especially if it's the case that you're mixing in the tank.

In most cases it is not even necessary to do any of this. It only costs you money, time, nerves and if you make a mistake your whole stock.

What are your original readings (KH/GH) from your tap and what fish do you keep?

Unless you keep decidedly hardwater fish (livebearers, Malawi/Tanganyika cichlids or rainbowfish) almost all other fish can easily live in soft acidic water. It even is preferrable in most cases, as in nature there are almost no waterbodies that are neutral. It's either hard and alkaline or soft and acidic.

Also in case you do this out of fear of a pH-crash:
The typical pH-crash requires more than just soft water. It also requires an overstocked tank and lack of waterchanges that borders to neglect. Then nitrates accumulate, that are dissolved in water as nitric acid, until a tipping point and the system crashes.

As long as you have a moderate stocking, do regular waterchanges and have live plants it is unlikely anything will ever happen.

 

Thanks MacZ for ruining my reply .

I actually had to look up what an "acid buffer" is. After visiting Seachem's website, I understand: it's a way of selling a second bottle of liquid along with the first one.

Apparently, both liquids are designed for planted tanks. I'm sure no one at Seachem keeps planted tanks.

To the OP: if you have zero KH and like to raise it a bit (for whatever reason...), feel free to do so. At least, skip the "acid buffer". Adding coral should be sufficient.

 

Do yourself a favour and stop the mixing and matching. What you're doing is the kind of pH (or rather KH) chasing everybody is warning about. Especially if it's the case that you're mixing in the tank.

So, Seachem's instructions on the bottle are wrong? I mean, they actually worked and did what was promised. pH is about 7, and KH is raised to 40.

What are your original readings (KH/GH) from your tap and what fish do you keep?

As I think I said, they are zero. I have a variety of fish, rasboras, platys, corys, a pleco, white cloud mountain minnows, clown loach.

Unless you keep decidedly hardwater fish (livebearers, Malawi/Tanganyika cichlids or rainbowfish) almost all other fish can easily live in soft acidic water. It even is preferrable in most cases, as in nature there are almost no waterbodies that are neutral. It's either hard and alkaline or soft and acidic.

Well, there's the platy's, but the main reason I am doing it, is that I want a nice planted tank, and everyone in the area where I live, struggles to keep plants alive unless they at least keep a fair bit of coral in the tank.

Also in case you do this out of fear of a pH-crash:
The typical pH-crash requires more than just soft water. It also requires an overstocked tank and lack of waterchanges that borders to neglect. Then nitrates accumulate, that are dissolved in water as nitric acid, until a tipping point and the system crashes.

As long as you have a moderate stocking, do regular waterchanges and have live plants it is unlikely anything will ever happen.

No that is not the reason I am doing it. I just want to raise the KH a bit for the plants.

 

I actually had to look up what an "acid buffer" is. After visiting Seachem's website, I understand: it's a way of selling a second bottle of liquid along with the first one.

I would not put it past them.

Apparently, both liquids are designed for planted tanks. I'm sure no one at Seachem keeps planted tanks.

and I have quite a few plants in mine that I want to keep alive. Previously I just had annubias and they grew, but stayed quite small.

To the OP: if you have zero KH and like to raise it a bit (for whatever reason...), feel free to do so. At least, skip the "acid buffer". Adding coral should be sufficient.

Well, I have raised the KH to 40 with the buffer, added coral, and now am just monitoring. If the pH gets too high, then I might need to revisit.

What if I wanted to add some neon tetras at some point? I was trying to keep the pH neutral, as I read they like lower pH, and 7.0 was a compromise. I also, did not want to make the water too hard either, for the same reason. I just want enough KH for the plants to do better.

 

Plants don't really care about KH / pH. I believe some have adaptations to take in carbonates more readily than most other plants, but they all prefer and run on CO2.

pH affects nutrient intake, but....pH swings in planted tanks in fixed but pretty dramatic patterns.

Almost all plant issues are related to light and CO2. Then comes temperature, nitrates, potassium, phosphates. Then magnesium, calcium and iron. Then all the other trace elements.

 

So, Seachem's instructions on the bottle are wrong? I mean, they actually worked and did what was promised. pH is about 7, and KH is raised to 40.

No. I meant buying such stuff is unnecessary in the first place, no matter what manufacturer.

As I think I said, they are zero. I have a variety of fish, rasboras, platys, corys, a pleco, white cloud mountain minnows, clown loach.

You only wrote near zero, not exactly zero.
Except the platies you can easily keep all these fish in KH/GH 0 and pH down to 5, that's what they are adapted for.
From a fishkeeping perspective what you do is basically asking for trouble, as the ups and downs put stress on the fish.

Well, there's the platy's, but the main reason I am doing it, is that I want a nice planted tank, and everyone in the area where I live, struggles to keep plants alive unless they at least keep a fair bit of coral in the tank.

I see.

So one possibility is to ignore the pH, get a baseline KH of 2-3 in place and that's it. Don't mess with it any further. You will still pay money for nothing. A certain KH determines a certain pH in the triangle-relationship of CO2, pH and KH. Pushing down with a pH-down or an acidity enhancer (both just diluted hydrochloric acid usually) you neutralize the KH you just added. Which raises the amounts you use, which costs you more than you need.

As ruud said, most plants can do great without KH. Here are some I know for a fact do very well in soft water:
Hydrocotyle, Limnobium, Nymphaea, Cabomba, Ceratophyllum, Salvinia, Anubias, Microsorum, Riccia... the list goes on.
I keep some of those in my tank with GH/KH below detection and a minimum of added liquid fertilizer (10ml/week) in a pH of about 5. I use 100% RO, which means my water comes in with nothing in it, just almost pure H2O. The only thing my plants lack from time to time is Nitrogen.

What if I wanted to add some neon tetras at some point? I was trying to keep the pH neutral, as I read they like lower pH, and 7.0 was a compromise. I also, did not want to make the water too hard either, for the same reason. I just want enough KH for the plants to do better.

Especially tetras take such compromises not very well. To be frank: Any compromise at the expense of the animals in a tank is a foul one. It's better to stick to what your water allows for (if you are a more casual fishkeeper and don't want to get into water chemistry and stuff) or you invest in a way of controlling the composition of the water from the get-go (rainwater, RO, DI) if you want to keep some of the more demanding species.

In your case, with what sounds like a planted community tank, it would be the least effort to specialize on softwater fish, keep plants that neither need CO2 nor high KH and limit additives to dechlorinator (if necessary that is) and humic substances (which in the form of leaves collected in fall doesn't cost you a thing).

 

Plants don't really care about KH / pH. I believe some have adaptations to take in carbonates more readily than most other plants, but they all prefer and run on CO2.

Almost all plant issues are related to light and CO2. Then comes temperature, oxygen, nitrates, potassium, phosphates. Then magnesium, calcium and iron. Then all the other trace elements.

Well, that contradicts everything local fish stores once told me. Still, won't be the first time a fishkeeping myth was spread.

However, is it not worth having a little KH just to help with pH stability, and be a little closer to natural conditions where some of these plants and animals come from?

So, my plan from here is to leave the coral in, and just monitor what happens.

So one possibility is to ignore the pH, get a baseline KH of 2-3 in place and that's it. Don't mess with it any further. You will still pay money for nothing. A certain KH determines a certain pH in the triangle-relationship of CO2, pH and KH.

OK, so where it currently sits is probably a good place.

As @ruud said, most plants can do great without KH. Here are some I know for a fact do very well in soft water:
Hydrocotyle, Limnobium, Nymphaea, Cabomba, Ceratophyllum, Salvinia, Anubias, Microsorum, Riccia... the list goes on.
I keep some of those in my tank with GH/KH below detection and a minimum of added liquid fertilizer in a pH of about 5. I use 100% RO, which means my water comes in with nothing in it, just almost pure H2O. The only thing my plants lack from time to time is Nitrogen.

Very interesting. Kinda different to lots of other advice I have read as well.

In your case it would be the least effort to specialize on softwater fish, keep plants that neither need CO2 nor high KH and limit additives to dechlorinator (if necessary that is) and humic substances (which in the form of leaves collected in fall doesn't cost you a thing).

Maybe, but it isn't hard to keep some coral in the tank either. It will be interesting to see how it tracks over the coming weeks.

 

However, is it not worth having a little KH just to help with pH stability, and be a little closer to natural conditions where some of these plants and animals come from?

Actually it would be closer to add some humic substances (aka "tannins"), which buffer the pH between 4 and 6.5. As said above in nature you only have the choice between hard and alkaline and soft and acidic. Neutral waters are a rare occasion in nature.

Well, that contradicts everything local fish stores once told me. Still, won't be the first time a fishkeeping myth was spread.

If they didn't tell those things, they wouldn't sell their additives. I don't know where you live, here in Europe we have dozens of nonsensical myths concerning fish, but none of the ones about plants that are in circulation in North America.

So, my plan from here is to leave the coral in, and just monitor what happens.

Probably for the best.

 

I have zero stakes. I'm not selling anything.

A lot of the stuff that is regurgitated is driven by business and the fact that our hobby is about probability management. A lot of things go well "despite of" not "because of".

Plants are very dependent on their environment and highly adaptive.

"Natural conditions" you refer to are anything but stabile. "Stability" is a characteristic of technology (business).

Let me refer to two of my favourite sources:

• Pampered inside, pestered outside?
• Underwater photosynthesis of submerged plants.

 

Just to prove the points made above, I have very soft water, KH is 0-1. I keep soft water fish and never had a pH crash. I have plants in all my tanks, Even Vallisneria, which some say only grows in hard water, mine rows like a jungle and the leaves get really long. Here is my biggest planted tank (mostly sand substrate, no Co2, basic LED lights) - at the moment this tank is even more overgrown than in the photo:


Admittedly I have failed with certain plants, notably Anubias (though I only ever tried one ), some Hygrophila species though H.polysperma grows well, and Bacopa.

 

And who can tell what caused your anubias to not do well. Perhaps chemicals released by other plants in your tank inhibited its growth.

There's no teststrip that measures allelopathy...

If it existed, it would be the only teststip I'd purchase!

 

Plant's care about GH - you need Calcium and Magnesium in the water as these are secondary nutrients that plants us in moderate quantities. a GH of 4-6 is a typically "good" range, but up to 10+ is also fine for GH.

Typically, planted tanks do best in the softest water possible (0dKH) and an acidic pH (high 4's - mid 7's).

As long as you are performing regular water changes, once per week for example, and you don't let your tank get disgusting over time, there will be no issues with pH crashes.

Chasing pH (KH) is almost never worth it. Unless you are remineralizing 100% RO water, it's best to leave pH (KH) where is is. Most plants "prefer" the softest water possible, but they can still thrive in higher KH's. Your KH is already very soft, so you have one up on many plant keepers.

 

Plant's care about GH - you need Calcium and Magnesium in the water as these are secondary nutrients that plants us in moderate quantities. a GH of 4-6 is a typically "good" range, but up to 10+ is also fine for GH.

Typically, planted tanks do best in the softest water possible (0dKH) and an acidic pH (high 4's - mid 7's).

As long as you are performing regular water changes, once per week for example, and you don't let your tank get disgusting over time, there will be no issues with pH crashes. hasing pH (KH) is almost never worth it. Unless you are remineralizing 100% RO water, it's best to leave pH (KH) where is is. Most plants "prefer" the softest water possible, but they can still thrive in higher KH's. Your KH is already very soft, so you have one up on many plant keepers.

That's interesting, because both my GH and KH were zero (or at least the lowest colour on the test strip). That makes it similar to RO water doesn't it? So, "remineralizing" is basically all I am trying to do, and I did need to raise the GH at least.

I have also just started adding Seachem Flourish for the plants, and that already seems to be having a positive effect.

 

That makes it similar to RO water doesn't it? So, "remineralizing" is basically all I am trying to do, and I did need to raise the GH at least.

Not really. There can still be a lot of other things in the water, even if GH and KH are missing.
I'd take a look at your water provider's website for an analysis. Usually you find those by searching your city/county + water analysis.

It's never bad to know what you're dealing with.

 

That's interesting, because both my GH and KH were zero (or at least the lowest colour on the test strip). That makes it similar to RO water doesn't it? So, "remineralizing" is basically all I am trying to do, and I did need to raise the GH at least.

I have also just started adding Seachem Flourish for the plants, and that already seems to be having a positive effect.

Even if it has no KH, as long as you perform regular water changes + normal organic material removal, you will have a steady, slightly acidic pH without risk of a crash - plants love soft, slightly acidic water.


As for GH, CaSO4 and MgSO4 are all you need. I would personally dose 25ppm of Ca using CaSO4 and 10ppm of Mg using MgSO4.


If you perform a 25 gallon water change, dose the incoming 25 gallons to these GH levels.

You can use rotalabutterfly online calculator to get your dosing amounts.


Plants will really struggle with no Ca or Mg in the water.

 

But continuing with Flourish sounds like a plan as well. It contains Ca and Mg also. Al you need is another bottle containing NPK. Yes, that's right. This time a second bottle is valid . You can dose a little of Flourish along with your water changes. Most likely half of what is mentioned on the label. And dose NPK in between.

See if it works out. Green and growth is the objective. They go hand in hand often, especially in low energy tanks, but not necessarily.

 

Could you please provide the results of testing of your source water, GH, KH and pH.

unless you have a clear picture off your starting point, you are just guessing at a solution, and one of those guesses, at some point is going to wreck everything.

I've kept fish at various pH, KH and GH levels, I don't and can't keep plants, don't really even want to, but We really need to know the condition of the source water.

Even then, it likely doesn't need a "fix" with a buffer. the "buffer" stuff pH up, pH down, this is a recipe for disaster at some point when you get it wrong, or the source water condition changes.

I've heard of people with 6.6-7 pH, and 0 dGH, 0dKH.
it's not that its 0 GH and KH, it's that it's less than 17.9 ppm 17.9 mg/l

And that's another thing, Are we talking about "KH and GH" or are we talking about "dKH and dGH" ?
They are two different scales and not interchangeable.
1 dKH or dGH = 17.9 KH or GH.

I'm not comfortable advising to do anything unless there's a very clear picture of the source water parameters before it's been amended.
Most likely you don't HAVE to do anything, except add a fertilizer for minerals, to the tank and keep a routine water change schedule so acids created in the tank don't build up and erode your minimal KH.
hard to say without knowing specifics though.

I don't think pH up or down, or acid or alkali buffers are the way to go though, seems like it will be too hit or miss from water change to water change. Steady and stable is better than all over the place.
You will need to always check your source water to make sure it hasn't changed, you can't really amend blindly assuming the source water is always going to be 0s, unless you are using RO/DI and not tap or well water.
You have to assume that over time or seasonally, tap or well water will have variations that will require changing the math on your water adjustments to keep the water parameters where you want them to be.

 

Could you please provide the results of testing of your source water, GH, KH and pH.

unless you have a clear picture off your starting point, you are just guessing at a solution, and one of those guesses, at some point is going to wreck everything.

I've kept fish at various pH, KH and GH levels, I don't and can't keep plants, don't really even want to, but We really need to know the condition of the source water.

Even then, it likely doesn't need a "fix" with a buffer. the "buffer" stuff pH up, pH down, this is a recipe for disaster at some point when you get it wrong, or the source water condition changes.

I've heard of people with 6.6-7 pH, and 0 dGH, 0dKH.
it's not that its 0 GH and KH, it's that it's less than 17.9 ppm 17.9 mg/l

And that's another thing, Are we talking about "KH and GH" or are we talking about "dKH and dGH" ?
They are two different scales and not interchangeable.
1 dKH or dGH = 17.9 KH or GH.

I'm not comfortable advising to do anything unless there's a very clear picture of the source water parameters before it's been amended.
Most likely you don't HAVE to do anything, except add a fertilizer for minerals, to the tank and keep a routine water change schedule so acids created in the tank don't build up and erode your minimal KH.
hard to say without knowing specifics though. I don't think pH up or down, or acid or alkali buffers are the way to go though, seems like it will be too hit or miss from water change to water change, and steady and stable is better than all over the place.

This is excellent advice.


Steady water changes, add fertilizers (including Ca and Mg for GH) and you will have no issues.

 

Could you please provide the results of testing of your source water, GH, KH and pH.

You will need to always check your source water to make sure it hasn't changed,

Definitely true. I found the official analysis as MacZ suggested. I find my actual tapwater has been at the low end of their testing, but not as low as the aquarium, which suggests some depletion has taken place. I just tested the tapwater again and KH was not zero, it was showing a little colour and the official test says it's minimum is 14 gm/l with a max of 40 gm/l. Given that one step on the test strip goes from zero to 40 gm/l, this is consistent. pH is close to 7. Officially it varies from 6.5 to 8. The good news is GH, which in the latest test shows about 25 gm/l, maybe a bit more. Officially is between 45 and 120 gm/l.

This all reinforces that I can now sit back and monitor the tank, with the coral in it, and see how it goes, especially after water changes. I will continue with the flourish. It's early days, but I really think I am starting to see better plant growth - even the slow annubias.

 

Hi oldaqua, I also have very soft water on tap from my well. Is your water from a well?

 

Hi oldaqua, I also have very soft water on tap from my well. Is your water from a well?

No, it's town water from the tap.