A Curious But Horrific Tank Of A Doctor From China

RonJ
  • #1
Back in September, I met with this doctor, a general surgeon working in a public hospital here in Singapore. He moved here for work from China. I met him after my 3ft tank started leaking and was looking for a replacement tank. He had posted on a local website that he is selling his fish tank and everything in it, for almost a give away price. He wanted to move apartment, to a smaller one; hence the sale.

I went to his place and to my horror, saw that he had already moved all the fishes in to a plastic jar no bigger than a common mason jar. He was waiting for me to come and and pick up the fish and he had agreed to transport the tank. He claimed to have moved the fishes 20mts before I arrived so that he can start emptying the tank of water and filth once I reached his place.

He had not emptied the tanks yet at the time. And there was hardly any water in the jar. Jar would have had less than half a gallon water for all those fish. I told him all those fish would die in less than 20minutes.

He had 2 angel fishes, a then 6" long common pleco and around a dozen mollies in his tank. 4 of the mollies were very young and less than 1" long. He said those were 2nd or 3rd generation ones. All of them in that jar with less than half a gallon of water.

And then it was a race against time. I asked him for a bigger container, and he told me he did not have any other jar or container to move the fishes as he had already moved all his stuff to the new place . I asked him whether he had more water, he said he had only tap water, and said had no water conditioner when asked.

He claimed to have kept these fishes for almost 1.5years. Said pleco was less than 2" when he got him. So were the angel fishes, which were like 4" tall when I took over. He also said he never changed water, never cleaned poop, instead he kept an open tank and added water as it evaporated. He said not removing the poop creates a natural environment and when I pointed out that if he did not change water, the minerals get leave behind as water evaporates, he said minerals are essential for fish.

So my "tank buying trip" became a rescue mission then on. I could not believe he never did gravel vacuum or water change. So the question is how did his fish survive for 1.5 years?

He said he didn't have any fish really die. He keeps the tap water overnight and used it next day. No water conditioner, no water testing nothing. He had an overhead filter and 2X T5 that's all. Really baffles me.

The rescue, as you must have guessed was only partially successful. I lost 7 mollies by the time I reached home. 30 minutes away as in all it took close to 2 hours(time in mason jar before I reached his place + tank quick washing and emptying + transport). Had lost 2 mollies before even starting from his place.

Lost another 3 mollies on subsequent days. Finally I am now left with the 2 angel fishes, 2 mollies and the pleco who is 7"+ long now.

It took us 1-hour to empty the tank and take out 1.5 years worth of back color poop+bio-waste plus substrate. I did not touch that stuff. He happily used his bare hands with that plastic jar lid as a scooper. And this guy is a A&E(ER) general surgeon in a local public hospital.

I prayed(even if I am agnostic), that I never get into his operation theater, seeing him, scooping the poop out with that lid using his bare hands, scratching his nose, ears etc, while he was at it periodically. Finally he finished and promptly dried his hands on the black-sleeveless tee he was wearing(with out even washing them mind you)

There are many things really baffle me. Don't you think a doctor should have known better?

Still those events haunt me, putting his bare hands in the tank, never changing water or poop, and the horrific condition he kept the fishes after taking them outside the tank, as well as in the tank.

I am also extremely curious to know how those fish survived. How can this miracle be explained? All the fishes looked to be healthy before chocking to death in that plastic jar.
 

Advertisement
FishCareGuide
  • #2
THAT. IS. TORTURE.
 

Advertisement
NightShade
  • #3
Omg.... that's heartbreaking!! I'd be terrified to have to go the the hospital he works at!! (I'd think about getting a dang tattoo on me that specifically said do NOT take me to this "fill in hospital name here" hospital!! Those poor fish! At least they are in MUCH better hands now. I hope you don't feel bad about the ones that were lost, as it was most certainly NOT your fault! (I'm sure you know that, but wanted to say it anyways ). Ugh, I can't even begin to picture all those fish (with their size) in that jar... it would haunt me too. So sorry you had to witness that.. I can only imagine how much it haunts you. Hopefully the of them in their new home with a different care taker, will replace the bad in time - I hope it's soon for your sake though! (My thoughts are with you & your new fishies)

I have no clue how they survived that long... I'd ask where he got his fish from though, they are some tough stock!
 
TheGameAce
  • #4
First off, if you only knew what I knew, you'd not be surprised at all with that Doctor and how he handled the cleanliness. You'd not believe some of the stories I could share...
As for how he kept the fish, that's definitely awful that he was so stupid as to toss them into a little jar of water for transport, and the rest of how he handled the fish. Granted, for years I never really did many water changes myself (when I was younger), but the fact that he didn't at least vacuum the gravel, and it sounds like he didn't have a filter at all? Other than that, I mean it's plenty plausible the fish would live, just not at the best quality they could.
 
junebug
  • #5
Fish can survive without water changes for a long time. It depends on the tank setup, but I'd be willing to bet he was lying and lost a good few in the process. You're talking about fairly hardy fish though, so not surprising that they survived (though I am a bit confused about how they died so quickly in the jar, as they are shipped to stores in much worse condition).

Usually the issue in a tank with tap water and no water changes is TDS buildup. Then either the fish eventually can't tolerate the TDS, or get shocked when there is a water change, especially a large one, drastically reducing the TDS and drastically altering pH in a matter of minutes.
 
corywand
  • #6
I have no clue how they survived that long... I'd ask where he got his fish from though, they are some tough stock!
Not necessarily. The only fish you saw were the ones that had already survived however long in those conditions. Of course they looked like hardy fish. Any that weren’t hardy would never have gotten to see you.
 

Advertisement



RonJ
  • Thread Starter
  • #7
Ugh, I can't even begin to picture all those fish (with their size) in that jar... it would haunt me too. So sorry you had to witness that.. I can only imagine how much it haunts you. Hopefully the of them in their new home with a different care taker, will replace the bad in time - I hope it's soon for your sake though! (My thoughts are with you & your new fishies)

I have them since 30th September. I know because I just checked my pictures. When I saw what he had done, I had taken pictures. It was really horrific, this is what I saw when I reached at his place.

What was in this jar you see below are(you will be surprised)
  1. 3.5" Black angelfish x 1
  2. 2.5" Silver angelfish x 1
  3. 2" Orange/Yellow Molly x 4
  4. 2" Black Molly x 4
  5. 1" Yellow Molly x 2
  6. 1" Black molly x 3
  7. 6" Common Pleco x 1
  8. 2" Ghost shrimp x 4
  9. 1" Ghost shrimp x 2
Total Fish count: 22

I asked him to top up water and he poured half a litre of mineral water into it, after I said no tap water. fishes started dying even before leaving his place. According to him the fishes were in the jar 20minutes before I arrived.


255A8A46-F782-4508-9B36-63ED46D68FB7_zpswwgfjqdl.jpg

And this is him in de-pooping action. I have cropped the s for his privacy. By the time I had taken this picture he had already scooped half the poop while the water was still draining. You can see the black line which is the "poop" line. His substrate used to be orange in color.


55DE5596-C532-4E60-91F0-3FC68A4995D7_zpssbcqnwlw.jpg

I spent 2hours cleaning that tank with baking soda and bleach, at least 5 times rinsed, and 2 times filled and left water for 24hours before draining.

And here is how that tank looks like now. After having started the tanl in first week of October 2017 with a pre-established canister filter which originally came from my 3ft leaked tank(was being run an ikea container with fish after the leak).

C751AE60-648D-40AD-A719-341A50B684A5_zpsvtnwlocn.jpg



75627D61-B034-454B-B359-DC209B11C828_zpsjhnacptv.jpg
As for how he kept the fish, that's definitely awful that he was so stupid as to toss them into a little jar of water for transport, and the rest of how he handled the fish. Granted, for years I never really did many water changes myself (when I was younger), but the fact that he didn't at least vacuum the gravel, and it sounds like he didn't have a filter at all? Other than that, I mean it's plenty plausible the fish would live, just not at the best quality they could.

He had an overhead filter. where a power-head pumps water into a plastic canal like structure where media is housed. Like this one



Overhead-Sump-Filter-3.jpg
 

Attachments

  • FB10983F-B43C-4F44-8C68-3F1760727EDE_zpswo0afkid.jpg
    FB10983F-B43C-4F44-8C68-3F1760727EDE_zpswo0afkid.jpg
    118.3 KB · Views: 115
Tabascopanda
  • #8
looks super good now that you've put in the time and effort to make it the way it should be. props to you for rescuing those fish. hopefully the new cycle completes well and with no issues.
 
TheGameAce
  • #9
Wow, definitely looks beautiful now! Glad you were able to rescue the fish you did
Also, kinda surprised that you have Blood Parrots (unless I'm mistaken) in with Tiger Barbs and what I'd assume are Mollies. Always thought Cichlids could only house other Cichlids and some bottom feeders as tank-mates.
 
RonJ
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
looks super good now that you've put in the time and effort to make it the way it should be. props to you for rescuing those fish. hopefully the new cycle completes well and with no issues.
My cycle is completed for a month now. I seeded with one of my existing Canister filter. In fact I moved my canister filter from temporary Ikea container fish hold(when my 3ft tank leaked). My apologies for not being clear, it was just a minI cycle. And tank was already stable and established by 10th of October.

Also, kinda surprised that you have Blood Parrots (unless I'm mistaken) in with Tiger Barbs and what I'd assume are Mollies. Always thought Cichlids could only house other Cichlids and some bottom feeders as tank-mates.

Mollies are there temporary. Tiger barbs do not actually deserve all that negative publicity. I have them for 3months now. They don't bother any fish mainly because there are 8 of them. They school with my two clown loaches. And BPCs can be put with tiger barbs. No issues. In fact mine is a crossbred BPC. A cross between female BPCs and Male pink Convict Ciclhids. They are slightly on the aggressive side and they can close their mouth to nip But they have no issue with any tank mates. Including mollies.
 

Advertisement



goldface
  • #11
Fish are transported in bags with less water. The idea is to have the rest filled with oxygen. Having them placed in jars, half filled, isn’t the worst thing, really. Sounds like you just don’t like the guy period. Anyway, I find this thread tasteless.
 
TheGameAce
  • #12
Mollies are there temporary. Tiger barbs do not actually deserve all that negative publicity. I have them for 3months now. They don't bother any fish mainly because there are 8 of them. They school with my two clown loaches. And BPCs can be put with tiger barbs. No issues. In fact mine is a crossbred BPC. A cross between female BPCs and Male pink Convict Ciclhids. They are slightly on the aggressive side and they can close their mouth to nip But they have no issue with any tank mates. Including mollies.
Ah, nice to know. Actually had a BPC myself, but she died a while back. Was about 12 years old or so.

Fish are transported in bags with less water. The idea is to have the rest filled with oxygen. Having them placed in jars, half filled, isn’t the worst thing, really. Sounds like you just don’t like the guy period. Anyway, I find this thread tasteless.
Indeed they are, but they're not all transported in the same bag. The bags are also filled with pure oxygen, the jar was not.
 
RonJ
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
Fish are transported in bags with less water. The idea is to have the rest filled with oxygen. Having them placed in jars, half filled, isn’t the worst thing, really. Sounds like you just don’t like the guy period. Anyway, I find this thread tasteless.

So shoving 22 fishes in to that jar and having them die in 2hours is not the worst thing? I don't even know this guy, and haven't seen him before or after. I had less than 2hours of interaction with him.
 
goldface
  • #14
So shoving 22 fishes in to that jar and having them die in 2hours is not the worst thing? I don't even know this guy, and haven't seen him before or after. I had less than 2hours of interaction with him.
I guess I don’t like the idea of making attacks on a stranger we literally know nothing about. It’s tasteless and immature. Nor would I post his pic, making petty remarks on his hygeine and profession. Complaining about fish abuse is fine, if not repetitive. I simply don’t like your approach.
 

Advertisement



nurseemily
  • #15
Don't you think a doctor should have known better?
No. I know doctors who are clueless about a lot of things but brilliant at what they do. Medical doctor does not equate to aquarian.
 
RonJ
  • Thread Starter
  • #16
Ah, nice to know. Actually had a BPC myself, but she died a while back. Was about 12 years old or so.
When I got my tiger barbs they were 0.5" -0.75" and last 3months they have grown quite a bit. Also now some are big and some are small. At first all of them were roughly same size. Now the biggest one is well over 1.5". You can see such a one here in this pic And so far they are not fin nippers at all to any of the fish there. In fact they don't even chase their kind anymore.

71F5D483-1FB8-4769-8B63-843778708377_zps61rbj2ue.jpg
 
RonJ
  • Thread Starter
  • #17
I guess I don’t like the idea of making attacks on a stranger we literally know nothing about. It’s tasteless and immature. Nor would I post his pic, making petty remarks on his hygeine and profession. Complaining about fish abuse is fine, if not repetitive. I simply don’t like your approach.

Well as a doctor, I wouldn't expect him to handle fish waste and substrate the same way. I strongly believe that a doctor is someone who should set the standards in public., just like how a teacher should not be a strip club dancer in her second job. There are some professions, where you need to lead by example. I am a professional myself. Electronics, and I believe it is my responsibility to demonstrate electrical safety when I do stuff in front of others. And wiping hands on the shirt after unsafely handling material with potential bio-hazard if not something a doctor should set example with.

And I do not think I have infringed upon his privacy, I have never used his face picture, name or even place of work. I only pointed out fish abuse and most importantly appalling standards of hygiene demonstrated in front of me. And my remarks on "I pray that" obviously was meant to be taken on a lighter note and not literally.

No. I know doctors who are clueless about a lot of things but brilliant at what they do. Medical doctor does not equate to aquarian.

Of course, but medial doctor equals to preserving higher standards of hygiene when it comes to handling material with potential bio-hazard. He also said, he used to supplement his his tank with some Chinese branded "antibiotics" for fish not to get sick. Over prescription and indiscriminate usage of antibiotics is already caused WHO to issue multiple warnings if I am not wrong.
 
nurseemily
  • #18
fish aren't humans. it's just not a good comparison, in my opinion. when you get sick you see a medical doc, not a vet.
 

Advertisement



RonJ
  • Thread Starter
  • #19
fish aren't humans. it's just not a good comparison, in my opinion. when you get sick you see a medical doc, not a vet.

I understand what you are trying to say. Unfortunately IMHO it is not so simple. Especially you wouldn't wanna have antibiotic resistance for zoonotic disease such as fishTB, which already takes severe antibiotic treatment regimen spanning over many months.

Antibiotic supplements for live stock to aid growth has been banned by European Union since 2006. 80% of the antibiotics used in the US are used on live-stock, which many agencies are trying to regulate. It is one thing for a farmer using antibiotics on healthy organisms for growth, but a totally different thing if a trained medical professional does that(to a healthy fish with out any diseases) irrespective of whether he is a vet or a general surgeon.
 
nurseemily
  • #20
I do get your point but this particular individual isn't prescribing ATBX to fish. he was treating HIS fish.

And I agree 100% about the ATBX resistance in humans. although I do highly doubt any US .gov agencies are trying to do much about it. I watched the same documentary you did.
 
junebug
  • #21
You realize it was probably the mineral water that killed the fish in the jar, not the fish being in the jar?

And you'd be hard-pressed to find an aquarium keeper that doesn't put their hand in the tank. Doctor or not, surgeon or not, it doesn't matter.

Besides, you were at his house, not his work. I'm sure if he was operating on you, he would have sterilized his arms first as is required of surgeons.
 
RonJ
  • Thread Starter
  • #22
You realize it was probably the mineral water that killed the fish in the jar, not the fish being in the jar?

And you'd be hard-pressed to find an aquarium keeper that doesn't put their hand in the tank. Doctor or not, surgeon or not, it doesn't matter.

Besides, you were at his house, not his work. I'm sure if he was operating on you, he would have sterilized his arms first as is required of surgeons.

He added mineral water after fish started to die. After first couple of fatalities.

Of course I also put my hand in tank. But when cleaning out the substrate and 1.5years of poop I would at least use a pair of latex gloves.
 

Advertisement



junebug
  • #23
I mean I would have taken the tank outside and hosed it out. But I've used my bare hands to remove some pretty nasty substrate (I do dirted tanks, so most of the tanks have a fair amount of chicken poop in them).

I am still surprised the fish started to die so quickly in the jar. There really is no reason for it unless they were sick and had been dying already.
 
RonJ
  • Thread Starter
  • #24
I mean I would have taken the tank outside and hosed it out. But I've used my bare hands to remove some pretty nasty substrate (I do dirted tanks, so most of the tanks have a fair amount of chicken poop in them).

I am still surprised the fish started to die so quickly in the jar. There really is no reason for it unless they were sick and had been dying already.

The so called rescue was not successful at all as I lost 60% of the fish in that week out of the 22 that were there.

When I reached there, there were 22.
  1. 3.5" Black angelfish x 1
  2. 2.5" Silver angelfish x 1
  3. 2" Orange/Yellow Molly x 4
  4. 2" Black Molly x 4
  5. 1" Yellow Molly x 2
  6. 1" Black molly x 3
  7. 6" Common Pleco x 1
  8. 2" Ghost shrimp x 4
  9. 1" Ghost shrimp x 2
Total Fish count: 22

By the time I reached home what remained was
  1. 3.5" Black angelfish x 1
  2. 2.5" Silver angelfish x 1
  3. 2" Orange/Yellow Molly x 2
  4. 2" Black Molly x 2
  5. 1" Yellow Molly x 2
  6. 1" Black molly x 2
  7. 6" Common Pleco x 1
  8. 2" Ghost shrimp x 4
  9. 1" Ghost shrimp x 2
Total Fish count: 17

I had to QT them and 3 shrimps committed suicide on that evening from the QT by jumping off from the op of the drift wood to the floor I guess. I had put a floating driftwood for the pleco. Also more fishes died that night So next day all I had was
  1. 3.5" Black angelfish x 1
  2. 2.5" Silver angelfish x 1
  3. 2" Orange/Yellow Molly x 2
  4. 2" Black Molly x 2
  5. 1" Yellow Molly x 1
  6. 1" Black molly x 1
  7. 6" Common Pleco x 1
  8. 2" Ghost shrimp x 2
  9. 1" Ghost shrimp x 1
Total Fish count: 12

Thus lost a total of 10 fishes in 24hours time from the time I saw the mason jar.

The 2.5" silver angelfish was missing some fins. And in late October it passed away too. So did one of the smaller black mollies. And one yellow molly also went missing after a tank change, have not seen it for a while. Guess she is dead too, even though I searched everywhere in that 18G tank for the body. So she must have been eaten by something.

So from that original list, currently I only have 9 fish now, living in 3 different tanks along with some of my other fish.
  1. 3.5" Black angelfish x 1
  2. 2" Orange/Yellow Molly x 1
  3. 2" Black Molly x 2
  4. 1" Yellow Molly x 1
  5. 6" Common Pleco x 1
  6. 2" Ghost shrimp x 2
  7. 1" Ghost shrimp x 1
Total Fish count: 9.

So the rescue was a disaster with 60% perished I just have less than 40% left of what I got. Black angelfish and pleco have grown at least 1" each since I got them though. And mollies bore some frys. So the number of mollies I have right now is roughly same number as he gave I think. But my fries are very small now.

And the remaining mollies, pleco and black angelfish are very healthy now. I have not had fish die on me since then.
 
Susiefoo
  • #25
You've done a great job and your tank is beautiful.

I think we can all agree the previous owner was a poor fish keeper and it's to everyone's benefit that you took over the tank.

However I would caution against idealising any profession. Doctors are just people. No more, no less. (Doctor here).
 

Similar Aquarium Threads

Replies
11
Views
1K
Roxie Brookshire
Replies
6
Views
444
Kimara
Replies
4
Views
517
Jessiechuuu
Replies
4
Views
2K
Jamieson22
Replies
14
Views
590
Fishkeeping7777
Advertisement







Advertisement



Top Bottom