90 Gallon High Livebearer Breeder/community?

Discussion in 'Freshwater Aquarium Builds' started by John Pritzlaff, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. John Pritzlaff

    John Pritzlaff New Member Member

    Hi y'all. First post. I'm setting up a new tank soon; it's a 90 high so I'm pretty excited. For the first 6 months to a year, as an experiment and in order to cycle the tank (and maybe to defray some of the costs of the hobby, since I'm beginning to develop a relationship with my LFS), I want to stock it as a livebearer breeder/community tank with a ton of floating plants around the perimeter of the top to shield the fry.

    My question is, could I get away with the following, and with which combination of varieties might I have the best chance...?

    1 male Molly
    1 male Fancy Guppy
    1 male Platy
    1 male Swordtail
    4 Female Mollies
    4 Female Guppies
    4 Female Platies
    4 Female Swordtails
    10 Khuli Loaches
    1 Chinese Weather Loach
    1 Chocolate Albino Pleco

    I already have 60 or so fry (mostly swordtails, platies, and platy-swordtail hybrids). My dream would be to create a new stable subspecies but I also just like "mutts."

    I have no qualms about discussing the ethical considerations either and would like to have a better understanding of them.

    Alternatively, I'm wondering if I could do the same thing but keep it to swordtails and platies, with one male each. I'm not too worried about the lack of a dither shoal given that I plan to absolutely enshroud the upper perimeter in foliage.

    Any ideas, criticism, advice or feedback are welcome. Thanks for your help.
     
  2. Iverg1

    Iverg1 Well Known Member Member

    Welcome to fish lore !!!!!!
     
  3. OP
    OP
    John Pritzlaff

    John Pritzlaff New Member Member

    Iverg1,

    Thanks! :D
     
  4. Ohio Mark

    Ohio Mark Well Known Member Member

    Welcome aboard!
     
  5. TexasDomer

    TexasDomer Fishlore Legend Member

    Welcome!

    Have you talked to your LFS about buying your fry? You likely won't make much off of them.

    You won't be creating subspecies, though you could combine different color strains and get some interested fry. The fry may be less valuable this way though.

    Rather than add multiple different species, I'd concentrate on one or two species, getting specific color strains of each to make the lines more valuable.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    John Pritzlaff

    John Pritzlaff New Member Member

    Thanks for the warm welcome!

    The thing with my LFS is that I tried to give them a synodontis, as I felt they'd be doing me a favor in taking him, and they practically shoved $10 store credit into my hand, even though I refused it several times. It's a bunch of young college students mostly. Pretty cool store in fact, but I have a feeling they're gonna overpay me for the livebearer fry, and I won't argue. Besides, I already know I'm not gonna fully defray the cost of the hobby, I'm at peace with just getting some "free" fish food and keeping the whole thing going as I gain experience.

    Could I use the 90 high as a community breeder and have a couple second-generation breeder tanks to focus the color morphs? I don't know how to articulate what I'm trying to say.

    Like basically I'm saying, if I get 5 or 10 babies out of the 90 gallon with the same "hybrid" color strain phenotypically-speaking, that isn't stable yet, and then I take the females out of that and put them in a separate tank with a new male, and then later use another new male with the same strain as the second (but not the first) one, would this combined method (scattershot and focused) make any sense? Or are there issues I'm not anticipating? Wouldn't the greater genetic diversity in the "community breeder" pool allow for faster line-breeding later because you'll be able to inbreed more after having given them a more robust genetic makeup? Or will they be relatively weak from being artificial mixes of human-engineered, artificially selected color strains, making it harder to sustain an isolated population of them without muddying it up? Or could you just get around this by changing the male occasionally but keeping his color strain somewhat constant (especially later in the process)?
     
  7. keeperofmanyponds

    keeperofmanyponds Valued Member Member

    I breed guppies, but don't usually sell them, you can get some pretty cool gups when you breed the orange fancies and feeders. I have guppies with neat looking purple/red/blue on them from crossing orange and second gen feeders. I say focus on one species per tank, or else one will out compete the other. Also consider breeding endlers with guppies, stick with endlers and/or guppies in one tank, mollies in the other, etc etc. jmo
     
  8. TexasDomer

    TexasDomer Fishlore Legend Member

    Yes, moving the desired color strains to their own tank to breed will give you more of the color strains you're wanting.

    The problem with mixing a lot of different strains is that you're likely to get a lot of undesirable colors, which lowers the value.

    The greater diversity could be better genetically, though fish can be inbred more than many other animals without seeing issues for generations.

    I wouldn't go so far as to call them human-engineered, but all guppy strains you see in your pet stores have been artificially selected - some strains may be more robust than others, but I would think the difference would be negligible in most cases.

    I would focus on particular, quality color strains, rather than mixing them. They're more desirable and you'll get more credit for them. So you could get some black Moscows or albinos or whatever color you want, breed them, and sell their offspring. Now if you just want to experiment, then sure, mix the strains, but don't expect much from the offspring (and expect to get a lot less for fry).
     
  9. Hunter1

    Hunter1 Well Known Member Member

    They are taking over my tanks!

    I have 2 20 talks with just guppy fry and corys. And 4 pregnant female guppies in my community.

    I was at the lfs today and forgot to ask if they will take any. :-(
     




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