80cm of a Rio Negro tributary

MacZ

Now, the new tank is set up, moving everything went almost without problems. It's missing a few things (Like higher holders for the lights.), but those are on their way, one of my helpers just didn't make it here yesterday, he'll be bringing that stuff over.

Specifications:

Glass tank: Marina 112 Liter, 80x35x40cm (second hand); Waterline lowered: Net volume incl. canister filter: 80-85 Liter
Lights: Fluval Aquasky 2.0 53cm, 14 Watt
Filter: JBL Cristal Profi 250 (second hand)
Heater: Eheim Jaeger 100 Watt

Stocking:
- 9,3 Nannostomus eques
- 1,0 Dicrossus filamentosus (Update: Deceased shortly after introduction to the tank)

Plants:
- Epipremnum aureum (emers)
- Hydrocotyle leucocephala (semi-emers)
- Limnobium laevigatum
- Salvinia auriculata
- Pistia stratiotes
- Nymphaea lotus

Water parameters:
TDS: 34 mg/l
EC: 67 µSi/cm
pH: 5.5 - 6
GH: below detection
KH: below detection
NO3: ~10mg/l


20220123_093936.jpg


20220123_094027.jpg

First status check this morning:
The pencils are out and about, displaying, claiming territories, already eating.
The cichlids though... still sitting in the corner. While the TDS and EC hasn't changed dramatically, the pH is up to 5.5, the old tank was at around 4.5. So it's pretty clear, even with acclimation, that the fish is still not fully settled in, which is normal.
 

DoubleDutch

Great man. Well done !
 

MacZ

Thanks! Next time you're in town you have to come over and look at it in person. :)
 

PAcanis

Looks good! [extra words]
 

ruud

Love the organized chaos.
Moving from 60cm to 80cm opens up a lot of possibilities, doesn't it.
 

MacZ

Love the organized chaos.
Moving from 60cm to 80cm opens up a lot of possibilities, doesn't it.
Thanks!

Not only from 60 to 80 but also from 30 to 35. Can't underestimate the depth. Height, though is overrated. Waterline is at 30cm.
 

ruud

Thanks!

Not only from 60 to 80 but also from 30 to 35. Can't underestimate the depth. Height, though is overrated. Waterline is at 30cm.
Ah yes, most definitely the depth! I'm gaining more and more appreciation for depth myself.

What's up next? A female checkerboard?
 

Wayne73

Wow great looking setup, hope it brings you joy an satisfaction. It does look stunning.
 

MacZ

What's up next? A female checkerboard?
Maybe. Right now I'm not planning any additions.
 

carsonsgjs

Looks fantastic. Feel like neon gravel would have been a better choice but hey, it’s your tank.
 

MacZ

Blurry line between funny and painful sometimes.
 

ruud

All it needs it a skull... croc or human.
 

MacZ

All it needs it a skull... croc or human.
You're volunteering?

Can we now leave it?
 

TClare

The cichlids though... still sitting in the corner. While the TDS and EC hasn't changed dramatically, the pH is up to 5.5, the old tank was at around 4.5. So it's pretty clear, even with acclimation, that the fish is still not fully settled in, which is normal.
Yes, its normal, not just because of the pH change. In my experience adult cichlids always take longer to adjust to a tank move than fish like pencilfish or tetras. When I moved two angelfish to a bigger tank they stayed in a corner for two days, and my male Cichlasoma hid and didn't eat for a week after he was moved. When I moved some Apistogrammas they settled down more quickly, but still acted somewhat confused at first. Whereas neon tetras and pencifish just carried on as normal.

The new tank looks superb, keep us posted!
 

MacZ

keep us posted!

Well... bad news. The Dicrossus just died. The stress was too much for it.
 

TClare

Well... bad news. The Dicrossus just died. The stress was too much for it.
Oh no, so sorry to hear that, what a disaster. Evidently a very sensitive species. Can you get another?
 

MacZ

Juveniles are locally available.
 

TClare

Juveniles are locally available.
You may have better luck with juveniles, more adaptable...
 

MacZ

You may have better luck with juveniles, more adaptable...
My mistake was to check pH only this morning when I noticed something was wrong. Yesterday I only checked TDS and EC which were spot on.
 

TClare

Well, yes its easy to think of these things in hindsight, maybe not though after a long hard day, and with the other parameters being correct too.... Did you use some of the water from the old tank?
 

MacZ

I used as much water, mulm, leaflitter and botanicals as possible from the old tank. Still used about 60 liters of fresh, unadulterated RO. Hence the H+ concnetration went crashing down: Result: pH (as noted above) 5.5 - 6. Previous pH in the old tank was 4.5, though.

My mistake, nothing to do about it. Learned my lesson.

Even after a long, hard day of switching a tank, you have to be on your toes and check parameters before moving fish. Period.
 

TClare

I used as much water, mulm, leaflitter and botanicals as possible from the old tank. Still used about 60 liters of fresh, unadulterated RO. Hence the H+ concnetration went crashing down: Result: pH (as noted above) 5.5 - 6. Previous pH in the old tank was 4.5, though.

My mistake, nothing to do about it. Learned my lesson.

Even after a long, hard day of switching a tank, you have to be on your toes and check parameters before moving fish. Period.
Let it be a lesson for all of us...
 

PAcanis

I used as much water, mulm, leaflitter and botanicals as possible from the old tank. Still used about 60 liters of fresh, unadulterated RO. Hence the H+ concnetration went crashing down: Result: pH (as noted above) 5.5 - 6. Previous pH in the old tank was 4.5, though.

My mistake, nothing to do about it. Learned my lesson.

Even after a long, hard day of switching a tank, you have to be on your toes and check parameters before moving fish. Period.

Had you checked last night and realized, what could have been immediately done?
I keep some pH lowering stuff on hand, but reading the directions it seems hard to dial in for anything that needs dropped 1.0 quickly and safely.

Sorry about the fish.
 

TClare

Had you checked last night and realized, what could have been immediately done?
I keep some pH lowering stuff on hand, but reading the directions it seems hard to dial in for anything that needs dropped 1.0 quickly and safely.

Sorry about the fish.
Perhaps keep the fish a bit longer in the old tank, if it was possible for the both to be running......
 

PAcanis

Perhaps keep the fish a bit longer in the old tank, if it was possible for the both to be running......

Ah yes. Check prior to moving.
I was thinking more if the fish was already moved, since most of the other tank was incorporated in the new tank. But checking all the parameters ahead of time is a good idea. Still, if you wanted to drop the pH ASAP so you can transfer the fish over, what can be done? Other than a chemical fix. And I know Mac steers away from that. I'm not even sure adding peat would have given him a quick pH drop.
 

TClare

Ah yes. Check prior to moving.
I was thinking more if the fish was already moved, since most of the other tank was incorporated in the new tank. But checking all the parameters ahead of time is a good idea. Still, if you wanted to drop the pH ASAP so you can transfer the fish over, what can be done? Other than a chemical fix. And I know Mac steers away from that. I'm not even sure adding peat would have given him a quick pH drop.
Yes, I am not sure, and as you say most of the stuff from the old tank was used in the new one. But perhaps a much slower and more gradual acclimatization? I don't know though.
 

MacZ

Had you checked last night and realized, what could have been immediately done?
I keep some pH lowering stuff on hand, but reading the directions it seems hard to dial in for anything that needs dropped 1.0 quickly and safely.

Sorry about the fish.
I did the first of the following things, as I wanted to have the old tank only empty and the fish out when the new one has arrived safely on the premises. The new one should replace it, so both running parallely wasn't an option.)
What I DID NOT do, is the second, which would have been the correct course of action. I was the one thing I usually am not: Impatient. Because I wanted to be done. My back ached, my helper was as tired as me... It was like "tank is practically ready", temp fits, TDS fits, EC fits... But did I check pH? No. I would have drip-acclimated. I even had left room in the vat specifically for that.
Perhaps keep the fish a bit longer in the old tank, if it was possible for the both to be running......
Yes, I am not sure, and as you say most of the stuff from the old tank was used in the new one. But perhaps a much slower and more gradual acclimatization? I don't know though.

Well folks, that's true blackwater fish for you.
I can add about the cause of death, that the fish had raggy grey films on it, which points to me to a bacterial infection like stress columnaris. As the fish was doing great just 24 hours earlier, I can be wrong, but I think the raised pH enabling bacteria growth, with the stress was cause of the immune response against bacteria to fail.
Btw, the bacteria films started to grow rapidly over night, covering the roots of the floaters completely this morning. The pencilfish are grazing on them all day.
I added 2 liters of homemade botanical humic extracts today, I had prepared to use after the emergency waterchange... pH is down to 5 again. *sigh*
 

TClare

What a shame...still at least the pencilfish are happy.
 

PAcanis

Interesting. So sudden.
I think it was probably a combination of things and not solely pH. Although drip acclimating might have helped with that.
Plus he was not a juvenile when you got him and was wild caught, so maybe his days were numbered to start with.

Thanks for sharing.
 

MacZ

What a shame...still at least the pencilfish are happy.
They are. I'll upload a video of them grazing on the biofilms later tonight or tomorrow. Amazing footage.

I also just got note one of my friends is going to drive me to the store I got the Dicrossus next week.

I think it was probably a combination of things and not solely pH. Although drip acclimating might have helped with that.
As I said: Immune-vulnerable plus massive stress. One or the other: Fine. Both: Really bad.

Plus he was not a juvenile when you got him and was wild caught, so maybe his days were numbered to start with.
Actually it was not yet fully colored up. It would have had longer.


--Additional Post--
 

MacZ

Called my go-to store. They have 2 tanks with juvenile D. filamentosus and one single adult D. maculatus male. I'm really tempted to take the D. maculatus, because the specimen is there for at least 4 months now. But D. maculatus neither fit into the Rio Negro setting I'm aiming at, nor is it a real blackwater species, but rather a clearwater fish. The readings in my tank are already below clearwater levels.
 

carsonsgjs

Called my go-to store. They have 2 tanks with juvenile D. filamentosus and one single adult D. maculatus male. I'm really tempted to take the D. maculatus, because the specimen is there for at least 4 months now. But D. maculatus neither fit into the Rio Negro setting I'm aiming at, nor is it a real blackwater species, but rather a clearwater fish. The readings in my tank are already below clearwater levels.
Depends if you really want to stray away from the Rio Negro stocking I suppose. If you do decide on moving away, why limit yourself to just dicrossus? May as well open up your options to other species as well.

Personally though I like the lyretails. Very pretty little fish.
 

MacZ

why limit yourself to just dicrossus?
Because they are pretty much what I want. I have tried species of Apistogramma (ortegai and hongsloi) the past two years and I am not really willing to get another one.
I would only stray away, because nobody has bought that fish (the maculatus) in months and it's a too nice specimen to let it live out its days in a sales tank.
 

TClare

Me too, they are beautiful and the tank is so lovely as a blackwater Rio Negro stream. I would probably take a group of juvenile D. filamentosus, they are likely to be hardier than the adult and it would be interesting to watch their interactions and see how they develop..

Edit: this was in reply to carsonsgjs's post
You could always set up the old tank for the D. maculatus.....??
 

MacZ

Me too, they are beautiful and the tank is so lovely as a blackwater Rio Negro stream. I would probably take a group of juvenile D. filamentosus, they are likely to be hardier than the adult and it would be interesting to watch their interactions and see how they develop..
Ok, you convinced me. Filamentosus it is.
You could always set up the old tank for the D. maculatus.....??
Nope, I can't. The old tank is going to be picked up by a friend by wednesday. I have only room for one.
 

MacZ

Allright, the old tank has been picked up yesterday and I got holders for the lights.

I had a case of oxygen depletion last night, the prefilter sponge of the canister filter was clogged, water circulation was limited, and with "fresh" botanicals and especially driftwood being colonized the oxygen levels naturally went down. Adding more humic estracts didn't help much there.
So I cleaned the sponge and added an airstone overnight, everything back to normal.


photo_2022-01-25_12-04-21.jpg
 

TClare

I was actually thinking about the prefilter sponge the other day, with so much leaf litter breaking down in the tank, I was wondering how often you have to clean it normally?
 

MacZ

I cleaned it once since I installed the canister filter in September. The mulm isn't moved a lot. You pile leaves on top and it accumulates below. Even with the checkerboard cichlid or the apistogramma before turning over leaves all the time, there wasn't much that ended up in the filter.

It was clogged from all the debris from the move.
 

TClare

T
I cleaned it once since I installed the canister filter in September. The mulm isn't moved a lot. You pile leaves on top and it accumulates below. Even with the checkerboard cichlid or the apistogramma before turning over leaves all the time, there wasn't much that ended up in the filter.

It was clogged from all the debris from the move.
Thats interesting, thanks, I thought the cichlids might stir things up.
 

MacZ

Thats interesting, thanks, I thought the cichlids might stir things up.
They do, but by far not as much as you might think.
 

MacZ

 

MacZ

Here we go. That was yesterday about 5 minutes after adding them. (And after 2 hours of drip-acclimation). Didn't have much time yesterday or today to take pictures or film footage, yet. So I'll post more when I get the chance.


photo_2022-01-28_19-10-58.jpg
 

PAcanis

They look nice.
I have three on order with some N Eques. Just waiting for a break in the weather to ship. Which should be the middle of next week. It's 6F here this morning.
 

MacZ

 

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