60 US gallon semi-aggressive journal

Ok, more pictures as promised:








Rainbowfish really don't want the camera to focus...

Ever since yesterday I'm self isolating until I get my COVID test results back, so I can't get any fish this weekend.

 

Unfortunately, I still have to self isolate until the 26th of July. More fish may have to be a birthday thing (15th Sep) or earlier.

I’m thinking of adding three or four more angels. I don’t want to have too few because I would much like to avoid aggression. There’s currently a single angel in the tank and my LFS has plenty similarly sized angels to him that are available.

I’m getting complaints that the tank needs more fish, so this is the plan. In my house, fish are seen simply as decorations that aren’t much worth worrying about. Even with the rainbowfish and cichlids the tank still looks pretty empty. I’m actually quite relieved to have a tank that looks somewhat empty, but unfortunately that can’t please everyone.

 

The angelfish will certainly add interest, but just have a backup plan in case two of the angels pair off and/or one becomes a bully or becomes constantly picked on. I have 6 in a 570l tank, they are often bickering and there is one that always picks on another particular one, nothing too serious yet, but I am aware that there could be trouble at some point. Also you should probably rearrange the tank before adding the new ones as the existing one may consider the whole tank as his territory. It would be different if they were all small juveniles but I think you are thinking of fairly well grown ones.

 

I might rearrange the hardscape just before I add any more angels, but rearranging is a messy job. I'll see what I can make.

If the angels are raised together from a young age will they all respect each other later on? I'm dealing with juveniles, around five or six inches in height, not so much very young angels. The current one didn't bully the blue one before it died, but likely outcompeted it from what was observed.

 

I might rearrange the hardscape just before I add any more angels, but rearranging is a messy job. I'll see what I can make.

If the angels are raised together from a young age will they all respect each other later on? I'm dealing with juveniles, around five or six inches in height, not so much very young angels. The current one didn't bully the blue one before it died, but likely outcompeted it from what was observed.

As juveniles they will be ok together at first but it does not guarantee things will stay that way as they mature. At 5-6“ they are already big enough to cause some issues I think. I got mine as very small juveniles, but the two I had first were about that size when I added 4 more smaller ones in the big tank. That was in February this year. They were all very peaceful at first but have grown quickly, and one started to bully the other a couple of months ago. I think the first two are probably the same sex, and the younger ones not quite old enough to pair off yet, will have to see what happens later...

Sorry you are stuck self isolating just as the UK is opening up!

 

So if I just rearrange the hardscape not long before adding about three or four more, can I effectively evade some issues? Will I have to consider gender ratios? I’ve heard all male groups tend to be more, violent...

I think I can sex angelfish. I’ve always known the males have a nuchal hump whilst the females have a flat head from nose to dorsal fin. Also, females are more angular in shape to males, who are rounder. Is this correct?

 

So if I just rearrange the hardscape not long before adding about three or four more, can I effectively evade some issues? Will I have to consider gender ratios? I’ve heard all male groups tend to be more, violent...

I think I can sex angelfish. I’ve always known the males have a nuchal hump whilst the females have a flat head from nose to dorsal fin. Also, females are more angular in shape to males, who are rounder. Is this correct?

Well I have heard of that method of sexing but I dont think it is very reliable. There is an interesting thread somewhere here that has pictures of many different angelfish pairs and it is not always obvious which is which. I will try to find the link. And having read quite a bit on here I don’t think it is always the males that are the most aggressive! In fact if there were only males and no females present it might be more peaceful... As with a lot of cichlids individual differences in aggressiveness can be quite pronounced, so you might be lucky and get a peaceful group (until pairing happens), or you might not...
I believe Linda1234 has a lot more experience with angelfish than I do and might be able to advise better....

 

I think I saw that thread. I’ll post this message so you don’t have to wait four hours before sending the link.

Knowing fish are unpredictable who knows what will happen eh? With 70 gallons, good length and height, hopefully things go well.

 

As I said, just have a backup plan!

 

My LFS takes fish in. Big scary jaguar cichlid across from their angel tank.

I’ll do whatever I can to ensure I won’t need to rehome because I don’t want to do all that. Rearranging, stocking multiple, whatever.

 

There is an interesting thread somewhere here that has pictures of many different angelfish pairs and it is not always obvious which is which. I will try to find the link.

Is this the one you’re thinking of?
Angelfish Gender Examples | Angelfish Forum | 264486

 

Is this the one you’re thinking of?
Angelfish Gender Examples | Angelfish Forum | 264486

That’s the one I remember!

 

Is this the one you’re thinking of?
Angelfish Gender Examples | Angelfish Forum | 264486

Yes, thanks, I couldn’t find it!

 

Yes, thanks, I couldn’t find it!

For future reference it’s stickied on the Angelfish board

 

I think the point of that thread (as mentioned by the OP) is you can’t accurately sex angels unless they breed. Sexual dimorphism in angelfish is unclear.

Is there anything else I can stock instead of angels just in case it’s a bad idea to use angels? I’m looking for something of a similar size (around six inches or so) that will roam the middle to top of the water column similar to angels, preferably something that’s easy to find in an LFS.

 

Personally I really like festivums, but if you get a group there may well eventually be the same issues as with angelfish. However, perhaps you could have one festivum with your existing angelfish?
Other people might suggest gouramis, I don’t have any experience with them though (I prefer not to mix continents, but your tank is already mixed so it wouldn’t matter).

 

My LFS has lots of gouramis. They get pearls, opalines, golds, dwarfs and kissings usually. The latter gets very big though. Never again will I keep dwarfs and we all know why! I’m drawn into the former three listed.

I’m not a fan of mixing continents anymore, but it’s happened. In the future I would make biotopes. Maybe mixing continents is a good idea in this case because I can avoid the potential feisty behaviour of a group of angels!

 

The problem with sexing angels is that there are a lot of different genetic lines that have different traits. If you breed your angels you have a good sense of what will be male and what will be female after 5 to 7 months (basically a couple of months before they become sexually active). However, if you buy a random angel the chances are less likely. I was looking at that post that has sample angels with their sexes and I was able to get all of them but one - with many having common traits of male/female. But the point is that if I were to just pick out that one at the fish store thinking it was a female i would be pretty sad when it turned out to be a male. With my angels the males are substantially larger than the females in most cases (more than an inch); but i do have one large female that is a tad bigger than her mate (which also happens to be one of the smaller males I have). Not exactly related but i find female aggression far more problematic than male aggression. Or perhaps I should say far more deadly.

 

If the tank looks 'empty', why not just add to the existing schools of Rainbowfish?

 

If the tank looks 'empty', why not just add to the existing schools of Rainbowfish?

I forgot! My LFS has a group of full grown, healthy looking boesemanis. I think I might have mentioned this here already. I would likely use those. I currently have two boesemanis in the tank so if I add a few more I could make a decent shoal of the species. Hopefully they’re still for sale when I’m allowed out again.

If it still looks empty after even that then I could add a few pearl gouramis.

 

A student at my mum's school made this for us:


It's a picture of the geophagus steindachneri "Doug." Not sure where to put it but I'm very grateful. Judging by how full my bedroom is, it might have to go next to his tank.

 

Some more photos (took just now):

 

Ok, I want to rehome the red rainbowfish because he's really boisterous and has begun not allowing the other rainbows out of the top corner. If I walk up to the tank they all swim around, but when I walk away or sit down, the red rainbow continues chasing the other rainbows into the corner.

It's irritating me how aggressive he has exponentially became. He just will not stop. I mean it, he does not stop. Ever. Whenever he feels he's swimming too far from his victims, he takes a quick u-turn and attacks them again. They cannot leave that corner. Not sure what he gets from this, but he has to go. The tank is becoming harder and harder to look at.

I don't want to rehome him until I can stock up on some more fish. Unfortunately, this has happened close to several family birthdays, bills being due and other events that cost money. Buying more fish might not happen for a while, but hopefully this isn't the case. We'll see. I don't want the fish to endure this for any longer. Just know my hopes aren't high for this...

Does the hobby have to be annoying?

 

How many Rainbowfish and species are in there?

 

There are:
One red
One turquoise
Three yellow
Two boesemani
So, in total, seven rainbows right now.

The turquoise usually schools with the yellows and I’m considering adding more boesemanis. Maybe more turquoise, but my LFS has none.

The red rainbowfish is the only fish in the whole aquarium who is disrupting peace. He sometimes attacks the other fish. Currently he’s a bright red colour and is patrolling the tank looking for fish to attack, always visiting that corner.

 

Reds are one of the larger boisterous species and the issue might be that you only have one male. They usually mix ok if there are a number of them. In your case it might be preferable to rehome it since you only have one. You can then add more of the species that you already have.

 

Thanks for your insight.

That’s my plan: rehome him and get more of the current rainbows. He stands out, but that’s not just because of his bright colour; it’s also because the other fish tend to hide away from him. I have to think if he were rehomed the tank would look less empty despite having one less fish.

I’m just panicking about how long this will take. My mum is totally up for his rehoming (she hates him), but she isn’t sure when she’ll next get paid.

He seems to have calmed down a bit now. The others are swimming about. I heard that this sort of behaviour typically happens in mornings.

 

Yes mornings are showtime for Rainbowfish. It's when they usually spawn so they are pretty frisky early in the day.

 

I’d still like to go ahead with the plan. The tank still looks pretty bare and of course, there’s mornings...

 

I don't know much about rainbowfish, but it does sound like a good idea to rehome him. Surely it wouldn't matter too much if the tank looks a bit bare for a while until you can get new fish? As long as it won't be a problem to add younger fish to the existing ones.

 

Not a problem at all. The boesemanis are younger than the rest anyway, so younger fish wouldn't stand out all to much.

 

My mum just called me downstairs to show me the unique and interesting behaviour two of the rainbow cichlids were exhibiting.

One rainbow cichlid was chasing the other in a circle around the densely decorated side of the tank. It looked a little like courting to me: something I’ve subtly noticed with them before already. Rainbow cichlids are only really aggressive when they mate, although it wasn’t very rough.

The chaser had small, pinkish wound on his side. I think they’re having a second go at mating, however I have no intent on raising any fry they may have. I can’t anyway.

The third of the trio was left out of this, while doing his own thing.

 

Added a decent sized slice of cucumber for the pleco to enjoy:


Here's a picture of some of the fish just to keep things a bit more interesting:


BTW, the tank stand makes for an amazing cupcake holder:

 

Added a decent sized slice of cucumber for the pleco to enjoy:

You probably know this but just in case you don't Zuc is a bit better from a nutrition perspective for most pleco. Also if you happen to keep clown loaches in your tank they also have a great affection for zuc.

 

I know that, but zucchini is messy. I used it before, but I’m not allowed to anymore because the pieces float about. Not that it bothers me though.

 

I know that, but zucchini is messy. I used it before, but I’m not allowed to anymore because the pieces float about. Not that it bothers me though.

Interesting. I weight it down and i look for ones that are not over-ripe (which leads to seed mess and little bits breaking off as they eat it) and have not had too many issues but it depends who eats it i suppose; the lemon blue-eye are pretty good at not making a mess but if the clowns go after it ... well their mom never taught them to be neat.

 

The pleco is quite a messy eater and is a messy fish in general. I can only imagine what a clown loach must be like!

 

The pleco is quite a messy eater and is a messy fish in general. I can only imagine what a clown loach must be like!

Weren't you stinky a few minutes ago ? Guess you took a bath between posts.

 

Weren't you stinky a few minutes ago ? Guess you took a bath between posts.

Well, I’m likely even stinkier because my new username is based on a local river. Sewage works...

 

More photos of the rainbow cichlids feeding: