55 gal tank - Where do I go from here?

Help! Where do I go from here?

Here are the specs:
-55 gal tank
-76-78 degrees
-Penguin 200 BioWheel
-Multiple sources of oxygen
-Recommended levels of aquarium salt

The tank has been up and running for nearly 3 months. Within the last 1.5 weeks, I have lost all my fish, and even my 2 marimo moss balls to, what I assume, is a huge ammonia (5.0 1 week ago) issue. Took someone's advice and treated my tank (previously treated with StressCoat and StressZyme) with Ammolock to help temporarily control the levels. Things did not improve after daily water changes, thorough gravel vacuuming, and following Ammolock directions to a T. I sought out more expert advice and was told to ditch the Ammolock and use Prime. So, I did a 50% water change and treated with Prime yesterday afternoon. By last night, my molly had cloudy eyes and it, along with the fry, were hanging at the water surface. I added an extra air stone and lowered the water level a tad to add a splash from my filter.

By this morning, the remainder of my fish (1 molly and several fry) are all dead. Ph plummeted to, at the highest, a 6.0. My API master kit only tests to a 6.0.

Levels as of this AM: (Not sure exactly if or how Prime may have altered these)
-Ph: 6.0
-Ammonia: 2.0ppm
-Nitrites: 0ppm
-Nitrates: Between 0-5.0ppm

My question: Where do I go from here? I don't know how to use the current state as a jumping off point for moving forward. Help?

 

I think you need to first find out why and how that spike happened in order to avoid that situation again. Is / was the tank fully cycled? I am assuming its not?

I would be like a full 90% wc using prime and let it sit for and hour and test.

How did you cycle your tank?

The mass amount of water changes plus the high ammo is prolly what did the fish in. Water changes can be good if the tap ph and tank ph is around the same value. if its not, doing big water changes often can cause big swings in ph and stress fish to death.

We need more info on what happened and how quickly all of it happens in order to help with where to go from here. One thing for sure if you need to keep the tank empty and running for a bit and get levels back to normal.

 

Tank will definitely be kept empty. I feel awful.

I thought the tank was cycled, but, like you, I'm starting to think it wasn't. I did a fishless cycle, and things seemed to be ok. Ammonia was consistently controlled and levels were where they should be. Granted, my information came from sources I now greatly question.

2 weeks ago, I noticed the fish were being sluggish, so I tested water. Ammonia was 0.5ppm. I did a 30% water change and monitored. Things were pretty consistent. No better, no worse. Several days later, the downward spiral started, and I was losing fish.

I tested parameters again, and the ammonia was at 3.0, Nitrites at 5.0, and Nitrates at 10, and Ph at 6.8. Was told to do daily 25-30% water changes and use Ammolock (I'm thinking this is where I went wrong?). Did that, and ammonia hit 5.0 with other levels remaining the same. Things never really moved in the right direction with Ammolock, so I did the larger water change and tried Prime yesterday.

 

What is your normal pH? At a low pH such as 6.0, ammonia is changed to ammonium, which is much less or not toxic to fish.

If your pH is that volatile, it could be that your water is not buffered enough, ie. very soft. It might be a good idea to get a test kit for GH and KH to test the hardness of your water.

If your water is too soft, it can lead to larger pH fluctuation, which might stress out your fish and make them more susceptible to all kinds of diseases. It also might be unsuitable for fish that need harder water to thrive, ie. they depend to a higher degree on the minerals contained in the hard water. Generally, it's easier for fish to adapt to higher levels of minerals in the water (harder water) than the other way round.

If your tap water is very soft, you might do better with fish suitable for soft water (ie. not Mollies or most other livebearers that need harder water). You can also try to add crushed shells. There are also a number of products available that add all necessary minerals to the water and make it harder. But for all that, you definitely need to be able to test your water's hardness.

If you have any fish in the tank, adjust the water parameters very slowly and gradually to give them time to adjust.

 

From what I've read, ammo-lock converts ammonia to a non-toxic form. I believe test results will still show ammonia even after using ammo-lock, if the non-toxic form is ammonium. Ammonium is less toxic to fish but still dangerous.

Ammonia should be 0 in a fully cycled tank. Anytime it goes higher is a signal that something in the water chemistry is off. Nitrites should also be at 0, and Nitrates should be at a level no higher than 40, preferably 10-20.

Follow Philip's advice and leave the tank empty and monitor the levels without adding anything. Are your latest readings Ammonia 3, Nitrites 5, Nitrates 10? If so, your bacteria are functioning normal and you should see the ammonia and nitrates eventually go to 0 while the nitrates go up.

 

Follow Philip's advice and leave the tank empty and monitor the levels without adding anything. Are your latest readings Ammonia 3, Nitrites 5, Nitrates 10? If so, your bacteria are functioning normal and you should see the ammonia and nitrates eventually go to 0 while the nitrates go up.

Latest readings as of this morning (Post Ammo-lock and Prime use)
-Ammonia: 2.0ppm
-Nitrites: 0ppm
-Nitrates: Between 0-5.0ppm

Prior to treating, levels were:
-Ammonia: 5.0
-Nitrites: 5.0
-Nitrates 10

 

What is your normal pH? At a low pH such as 6.0, ammonia is changed to ammonium, which is much less or not toxic to fish.

If your pH is that volatile, it could be that your water is not buffered enough, ie. very soft. It might be a good idea to get a test kit for GH and KH to test the hardness of your water.

If your water is too soft, it can lead to larger pH fluctuation, which might stress out your fish and make them more susceptible to all kinds of diseases. It also might be unsuitable for fish that need harder water to thrive, ie. they depend to a higher degree on the minerals contained in the hard water. Generally, it's easier for fish to adapt to higher levels of minerals in the water (harder water) than the other way round.

If your tap water is very soft, you might do better with fish suitable for soft water (ie. not Mollies or most other livebearers that need harder water). You can also try to add crushed shells. There are also a number of products available that add all necessary minerals to the water and make it harder. But for all that, you definitely need to be able to test your water's hardness.

If you have any fish in the tank, adjust the water parameters very slowly and gradually to give them time to adjust.

Ok... I had the hardness tested last time I went to the aquarium store, but no one seemed concerned about it, so neither did I. The hardness was 75mg/L with an alkalinity of 0.

Ph has always been very stable between 6.8-7.0.

 

If you can get your levels in check doing a huge water change and want to get some fish it may not be a bad idea to getone of the bb products like ATM colony or tetra safe start. These would help your cycle finish up quickly if the right conditions are met.

Sounds like you had a rough start but we can change that.

 

pH isn't normally that big of a deal as long as it's stable, so if you do manage to raise it, you'll want to always monitor it. How did you cycle? Did you do anything before all the issues started that could have spiked your bio load, like add a bunch of fish at once? Did you have and remove any live plants?
As far as treating your water, you can throw everything out that isn't Prime. I'm sorry all your fish died. Everyone has been there before. It sucks.

 

Very sorry for what you went through. You're in good hands here and will get tons of information to get on the right track again.

You might want to start over with the water and not put any more chemicals in except for primer (I use Seachem primer, I think a whole capful treats a 50gl tank so you do more with less). I'm a huge proponent of less chemicals in the water and let nature take its course provided that you are controlling other things effectively

 

pH isn't normally that big of a deal as long as it's stable, so if you do manage to raise it, you'll want to always monitor it. How did you cycle? Did you do anything before all the issues started that could have spiked your bio load, like add a bunch of fish at once? Did you have and remove any live plants?
As far as treating your water, you can throw everything out that isn't Prime. I'm sorry all your fish died. Everyone has been there before. It sucks.

Thank you. I can't really think of anything I did before things started really other than adding a 2nd moss ball about 2 weeks prior? The fry have been around for a long time. They came as an unplanned package deal.

Very sorry for what you went through. You're in good hands here and will get tons of information to get on the right track again.

You might want to start over with the water and not put any more chemicals in except for primer (I use Seachem primer, I think a whole capful treats a 50gl tank so you do more with less). I'm a huge proponent of less chemicals in the water and let nature take its course provided that you are controlling other things effectively

Thank you! I bought the SeaChem Prime yesterday. I also don't like adding things, but I got super desperate once fish started to die.

 

what test kit are you using or are you relying on a LFS or pet store to test it for you?

if you are using strips stop and invest 25-30 dollars on API Master Test Kit for fresh water has tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and high pH

i'd also look for API's GH and KH test kits combo pack either online( only place I could find it) or in a store

as if the pet store told you your alkalinity which I believe (please correct me if i'm wrong more experienced peeps is the same as KH is really 0 then your water has almost no buffering capacity which means your pH is going to swing from one extreme to the other

my KH isn't as low as yours it is around 2-3 but I do notice a drop in pH when I dose with ammonia so I am thinking of getting something to place in my filter to add some carbonate buffering capacity you might want to do the same if that 0 KH is accurate

 

what test kit are you using or are you relying on a LFS or pet store to test it for you?

if you are using strips stop and invest 25-30 dollars on API Master Test Kit for fresh water has tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and high pH

i'd also look for API's GH and KH test kits combo pack either online( only place I could find it) or in a store

as if the pet store told you your alkalinity which I believe (please correct me if i'm wrong more experienced peeps is the same as KH is really 0 then your water has almost no buffering capacity which means your pH is going to swing from one extreme to the other

my KH isn't as low as yours it is around 2-3 but I do notice a drop in pH when I dose with ammonia so I am thinking of getting something to place in my filter to add some carbonate buffering capacity you might want to do the same if that 0 KH is accurate

I use the API Master Test Kit , but I didn't have anything to test hardness, so I ran up to the store and had them test it for me. They tested everything else again as well since I was there, and they confirmed my other levels, but they didn't seem the least bit concerned about the hardness/alkalinity, so I didn't think anything of it (I'm new at this... can you tell? Haha).

 

I use the API Master Test Kit , but I didn't have anything to test hardness, so I ran up to the store and had them test it for me. They tested everything else again as well since I was there, and they confirmed my other levels, but they didn't seem the least bit concerned about the hardness/alkalinity, so I didn't think anything of it (I'm new at this... can you tell? Haha).

don't worry I am also I am basically repeating what other members have told people or me in similar situations another way to look at the hardness is to look up your water providers data on the tap water should have lead levels things like that i'm not sure they have to list or not as I doubt it is a EPA mandated value but its worth a quick google

 

Thank you all so much for the tips and advice!

Let's add a twist. I just started the massive water change to discover that 5 little fry have miraculously survived! They have been hiding, and it seems like they are shedding their slime coat? I may be way way off on that, but that's all I can think of?

So.... continue with the massive water change and see how they do? Stop? Again... where do I go from here?

 

ok with fish in the tank changes things

1. what's your pH sorry if you have already answered this
2. get everything down to as close to 0 ( ammonia , nitrite , nitrate) as you can
3. dose the tank with prime then wait 24hrs
3. add tetra safestart or Tim's one and only or Colony (there are more but these are the ones recommended here on the forums)they are bacteria in a bottle products which jump start your cycle

4. whatever product you choose follow the instructions to a T

5. lightly feed everyday or everyother day since they are fry (more experienced member should chime in here with better advice)

6. then if you decide to try and fix your pH stablitiy do it very very slowly or it will stress/kill the fry

7. good luck and take pictures

 

Fry are not as demanding as one might think when it comes to feeding. The problem with using a product like TSS or colony with fry is that they will not be able to produce the required amount of ammonia to keep feeding the bacterial. Another thing to keep note of is that there is only a few ways you can get future spikes once you bring down the levels. Overfeeding is one, stocking too many fish, rotting plants, tap water could have some but shouldn't spike, and adding the bottled stuff. So as long as you feed very light, by this I mean like every other day and 30 seconds worth of food then you should be okay.

I also worry with fish in there doing full WC might be too much of a pH swing. That's my only concern with the large WC.

Glad there is still some life in there.

 

Help! Where do I go from here?

Here are the specs:
-55 gal tank
-76-78 degrees
-Penguin 200 BioWheel
-Multiple sources of oxygen
-Recommended levels of aquarium salt

The tank has been up and running for nearly 3 months. Within the last 1.5 weeks, I have lost all my fish, and even my 2 marimo moss balls to, what I assume, is a huge ammonia (5.0 1 week ago) issue. Took someone's advice and treated my tank (previously treated with StressCoat and StressZyme) with Ammolock to help temporarily control the levels. Things did not improve after daily water changes, thorough gravel vacuuming, and following Ammolock directions to a T. I sought out more expert advice and was told to ditch the Ammolock and use Prime. So, I did a 50% water change and treated with Prime yesterday afternoon. By last night, my molly had cloudy eyes and it, along with the fry, were hanging at the water surface. I added an extra air stone and lowered the water level a tad to add a splash from my filter.

By this morning, the remainder of my fish (1 molly and several fry) are all dead. Ph plummeted to, at the highest, a 6.0. My API master kit only tests to a 6.0.

Levels as of this AM: (Not sure exactly if or how Prime may have altered these)
-Ph: 6.0
-Ammonia: 2.0ppm
-Nitrites: 0ppm
-Nitrates: Between 0-5.0ppm

My question: Where do I go from here? I don't know how to use the current state as a jumping off point for moving forward. Help?

HI erinng12, welcome to the forum.

It appears that the high ammonia level in your tank affected your fish along with your PH swing. Water quality is imperative to your fish health. I suggest you start by testing your water source so you have a baseline of any water parameters from your water source. If your PH is low from your tap, you might need to age your water with an airstone to increase the PH, I then recommend you do a large water change (90%) to reestablish a more stable PH in your tank and suggest you continue to monitor your tank levels and continue with water changes to manage any ammo/nitrI spikes you may experience.

One last thing, I also suggest you upgrade your filter. Best of luck.

 

Update: 4/5 of my little guys didn't make it. I'm going to wait until morning and recheck. Thanks so much for all the advice. Y'all are great!

HI erinng12, welcome to the forum.

It appears that the high ammonia level in your tank affected your fish along with your PH swing. Water quality is imperative to your fish health. I suggest you start by testing your water source so you have a baseline of any water parameters from your water source. If your PH is low from your tap, you might need to age your water with an airstone to increase the PH, I then recommend you do a large water change (90%) to reestablish a more stable PH in your tank and suggest you continue to monitor your tank levels and continue with water changes to manage any ammo/nitrI spikes you may experience.

One last thing, I also suggest you upgrade your filter. Best of luck.

Thank you so much!

What do you recommend for a filter upgrade? I want the next round to be as successful as possible, so I'm open to all the advice, tips, and help I can get.

 

Thank you so much!

What do you recommend for a filter upgrade? I want the next round to be as successful as possible, so I'm open to all the advice, tips, and help I can get.

You're on the right track now, you joined Fishlore

Visit the beginners section of the forum and on the top of the beginners section, there are a few topics which have been annotated or "stickied" and marked as "please read." I suggest you go through them in detail.

With regard to a filter upgrade, keep the penguin 200 and I suggest you add a canister filter. The sunsuns or grech brand canisters do great. Best of luck.

 

Thanks guys! Looks like the last of my fry didn't make it.

Water parameters today:
-Ammonia: 2.0
-Nitrites: 0
-Nitrates: 5.0
-Ph: 6.0 (tested tap water, and Ph is 7.6)

I did some research and saw a good bit about the battle between combating ammonia and drops in Ph. Are these two related? Normally, the tank maintains a Ph of 6.8-7.0.

So, I'm thinking massive water change and a dose of Prime. Should I add the Tetra Safe Start, too, or is that only when doing a cycle with fish? I may add a couple very easy/hardy plants as well (thinking java moss and java fern) to help things along.

 

tss and alike are meant for fish in cycles

 

as long as you remember to dose the tank with ammonia TSS should work with a fishless cycle as well just make sure to dose or else the bacteria will starve

 

Ok... I'm back. Same issues, not sure where to go. I've done 2 massive (80-90%) water changes, treated with prime, vacuumed, and made sure everything was out of the tank.

After waiting 24-48 hours after treatment for testing, I am consistently getting ammonia readings of 1.0-2.0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5. I feel like the ammonia levels should be decreasing with the water changes and prime, but no such luck? Help?

 

Have you checked your tap water? Pour some in a clean glass, wait for 24 hours and use your API test. Also, make sure you wait at least 24 hours to test tank water that was dosed with Prime. Good luck

 

Have you checked your tap water? Pour some in a clean glass, wait for 24 hours and use your API test. Also, make sure you wait at least 24 hours to test tank water that was dosed with Prime. Good luck

I've waited close to 48 hours after each dose to test, just to be safe. I've only tested my tap water to get a pH reading, but I will do a complete test and see what I get.

 

Do you have a water softener and/ or a RO/DI unit in your water system? Sounds like you are having PH crash from not enough minerals in the water. If this is the case it can be fixed by the use of a mineral supplement. We use RO/DI water and use this

 

Do you have a water softener and/ or a RO/DI unit in your water system? Sounds like you are having PH crash from not enough minerals in the water. If this is the case it can be fixed by the use of a mineral supplement. We use RO/DI water and use this

We don't. My pH today in the tank is a nice 7.0 (where it was prior to the ammonia spiraling out of control). So, that is definitely something to look into, too. Thanks!

 

Ok.... the plague/saga continues.

LFS suggested to just let the tank run and see what happens. Well, woke up this morning to cloudy water. I immediately tested, and here are the results:

ph: 6.6
Ammonia: 4.0 (YIKES!)
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 5-10

This is 72 hours post 80-90% water change and a dose of Prime.

Husband dumped out my glass of sitting tap water, so I refilled and will test it tomorrow.

 

Another update: Still having issues. Not sure what else to do.

Did a 30% water change on the 27th and treated with appropriate level of Prime. Tested again this AM.

Ammonia: 2.0-4.0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 0-5.0

Any ideas?

 

Did you manage to get a read from your tap water?

 

Did you manage to get a read from your tap water?

Yes, I did. Sorry about that.

pH: 7.0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: Between 20-40 on the API chart

 

Is your tank heavily planted? That would explain the nitrates in your tank being lower than your tap water.
As for the ammonia, I am stumped as to how your level is so high after a WC with no ammonia source in the tank.

Hoping someone else sees this and may have a better answer for you.

 

Is your tank heavily planted?

No plants at all. It's all store bought decor. :/ I'm so stumped.

I'm taking all decor out of the tank right now, hoping and praying that maybe one of them is leaching ammonia.