4 of the 17 didnt make it

Rcslade124

Member
So 4 cardinal passed over the night. I only had a few mins to retrieve them before I had to leave for work. Will test water as soon as I get home tongiht. Pics attached
 

jake37

Member
Too many variables to comment. How long did you own them ? Some stock at our local store have been very weak other have been very good (there is one particular distributor from florida that has always delivered very strong stock to this store and they label the tanks when they received cardinals from this distributor). Another issue could be temp (cardinals like warm water - and are more sensitive to cold water conditions than some other tetra); water condition; ...
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If these were recently purchased and everything else is good in the tank then it could be poor stock. One of them looks pretty beat up but maybe that is the angle of the picture.
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also 20 fishes in a 20 gallon tank is a bit excessive (presuming your tank is listed in aquarium detail) so the water might be rather unclean.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
No it's a 29 gallon. Been cycled for 2 weeks feeding 3ppm ammonia. There is nothing else in the tank but them. Water is 78. They are a little beat up had to use planting tweezers to pull a few out.
 

jake37

Member
So these are new fishes ? How long have you had them also I would ask the store if they have had any deaths if these are less than a week old.
 

KribensisLover1

Member
jake37 said:
So these are new fishes ? How long have you had them also I would ask the store if they have had any deaths if these are less than a week old.
I don’t think they’re that young. They are well above .5”. But I’ll try to call them good call.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
I had them 12hrs. I had gf dose with prime incase was a spike which I don't think it was but maybe.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
Yea they are about .75 inch. Hopefully just a few that didn't handle the move
 

jake37

Member
When I said new I did not mean 'new birth' but new to you. I think you said you had them for 12 hours so in that sense they are new. I normally try to make sure the shop have a fish for at least a few days ( a week is better) before purchase as a lot of fishes can be stressed due to shipping.

As I mentioned my local fish store receive cardinals from several sources. This summer one of the sources they suffered more than 50% mortality but another source they had less than 1% (I think they told me 1 out of 400 fishes died).

Slvikan said:
I don’t think they’re that young. They are well above .5”. But I’ll try to call them good call.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
No all of the fish were in their tank since friday. They all seemed fine. I had one that stayed away from the pack once put in the tank. So I figured he would go. I hope that the rest survive until I make it home from work. As long as the rest survive I'm happy. It will be 24hrs around 230-3. So hopefully the rest survive
 

angelcraze

Member
They look awfully red to me, but maybe it was tweezers. I know they are dead, but my dead fish never look like that overnight. Why were they caught in the tank that you had to remove them with tweezers?

So you had your GF dose with Prime after the 4 deaths?

Definitely update once you test the tank. I hope the others are ok.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
That was what I thought also they look red. They were all down in the bottom by the plants. I would have ripped all the plants up grabbing them. And yeah I asked her to dose with prime incase it was an ammonia spike. I am so upset I didnt have time to test the water before work. I'm stressed out about it ugh.
 

angelcraze

Member
Yeah, I get that. I've been in the same sitch where you just have to go to work and then you are worrying all day. I know this doesn't really help, but worrying will accomplish nothing but stressing you out. Your GF has dosed Prime, so if for some reason there is an ammonia spike, it should alleviate the toxicity a bit.

When you get home, test the water, if the is more than 0.50ppm ammonia, do a 50% water change to get that down to 0.25ppm. And try NOT to worry!

Did you do a large water change before adding the fish? I was thinking there'd be a lot of nitrates if you didn't. Still wouldn't cause redness though or deaths overnight.

Did you acclimate the fish to your tank water?
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Are you able to get a pic of the survivors ?
 
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Rcslade124

Member
I did 75% day before and nitrates were 20 before I went to get the fish. My tap has .25 last I checked. But it was a solid 0 ammonia before I went to get them. Here's some pics she took hard to see.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
All the rest are still alive she says
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Is it the lighting or do they look like Green neons (P.simulans).

These one look quite healthy.

Could it have been Ph shock ?
 
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Rcslade124

Member
Maybe I didnt check the ph of the water from the shop. N I acclimate for 45mins then put them in. I will have her turn up the lights they are on low.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
But only 4 dropping from ph shock I think more would. Like I said I'm going to do a full test. But if it was ammonia my tank should process it. I had one stay away from the group from start so I figured they wouldnt make it. But I feel like I would have another few dieing if it's my water issue since 9am. But I'll dig into the tank as soon as I walk in the door. And she will turn up lights and get another pic when she gets our son from school
 

mattgirl

Member
As heartbreaking as it is sometimes this just happens. The ones you lost may not have been as strong as the others. These little guys go through so much getting from the breeder to us. Often the weakest ones just can't handle it. We can do everything just right and still some don't make it.

I know you made sure your tank was ready for fish and you acclimated them to your water so you did all you could to give them the best chance possible. Keeping the lights low while they settle in is a good idea.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
Yea that's mu thoughts. I just worry they looked pretty red that it might be ammonia burns. The rest this morning seemed fine. Nice blue and red. As long as none pass away while I'm at work I'll chalk it to a few weaker ones. If not I'm in trouble have 3 more fish coming in the am. Thinking about getting some safestart plus just in case it was ammonia. But cycled to 3ppm I don't think 17 juvie cardinal will cause an ammonia spike.
 

mattgirl

Member
Rcslade124 said:
Yea that's mu thoughts. I just worry they looked pretty red that it might be ammonia burns. The rest this morning seemed fine. Nice blue and red. As long as none pass away while I'm at work I'll chalk it to a few weaker ones. If not I'm in trouble have 3 more fish coming in the am. Thinking about getting some safestart plus just in case it was ammonia. But cycled to 3ppm I don't think 17 juvie cardinal will cause an ammonia spike.
I really can't imagine it being ammonia burn since you grew enough bacteria to handle 3ppm ammonia. I agree this number of little fish would not have produced that much ammonia 'specially in such a short period of time.
 

angelcraze

Member
I wouldn't think so either.....

Very strange for sure. I use the bottled bacteria when/if I have to. Worth the peace of mind too I think. Doesn't hurt anyway (except the pocketbook).
 

jake37

Member
Be aware that since you used prime you will likely get a 25ppm false reading for ammonia. I find it takes 2 to 4 days for the prime to drain off before the false reading will go away. It has to do with how prime binds with ammonia (the fishes are always producing ammonia).
 

mattgirl

Member
jake37 said:
Be aware that since you used prime you will likely get a 25ppm false reading for ammonia. I find it takes 2 to 4 days for the prime to drain off before the false reading will go away. It has to do with how prime binds with ammonia (the fishes are always producing ammonia).
I have seen this posted from time to time but personally I've never experienced it and have been using Prime for about 4 years in all of my tanks.
 

jake37

Member
I think it has to do with the age of the tank. I just went through this with two new tanks. 0ppm ammonia; added some prime and retest a few hours later and it jumped to 25ppm. Since this was repeatable for 2 different tanks I figured it was genuine but perhaps it was real ammonia as the tanks were new (well the tanks were new but the sponge filters were months old taken from mature tanks - I start my tanks by taking mature sponge filters and 2 or 3 guppies - I seem to always have more guppies than I know what to do with... anyone want a guppy ?)

mattgirl said:
I have seen this posted from time to time but personally I've never experienced it and have been using Prime for about 4 years in all of my tanks.
 

mattgirl

Member
jake37 said:
I think it has to do with the age of the tank. I just went through this with two new tanks. 0ppm ammonia; added some prime and retest a few hours later and it jumped to 25ppm. Since this was repeatable for 2 different tanks I figured it was genuine but perhaps it was real ammonia as the tanks were new (well the tanks were new but the sponge filters were months old taken from mature tanks - I start my tanks by taking mature sponge filters and 2 or 3 guppies - I seem to always have more guppies than I know what to do with... anyone want a guppy ?)
You could be right. It could have something to do with how strong the cycle is. I kept reading this so actually tried to recreate it in my established tanks and never got an ammonia reading.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
You know I bet the .25 ammonia that equals 0 too most that is what throws it off. This 29 gallon has given me a true 0 ammonia. Very yellow test.
 

FinalFins

Member
Sorry for the loss. Yes, agreed with mattgirl , the fish may have just been weak. I also lost 4 fish out of my new group of fish also.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
It just worried me that I have an issue in the tank and having to get the dead ones out and run out the door bothers me. I desperately wanted to do a full test on the water. So now I'm just thinking what if it is my fault and not sick fish
 

DoubleDutch

Member
FinalFins said:
Sorry for the loss. Yes, agreed with mattgirl , the fish may have just been weak. I also lost 4 fish out of my new group of fish also.
But the survivors look quite healthy !
It isn't simply a bad batch of fish.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
Here's some lights on pics. All seem to be fine. Fingers crossed
 

DoubleDutch

Member
No bad signs in these. Fingers crossed they'll be okay tomorrow.
 

Craig_84

Member
Are those neons rather than cardinals?
 
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Rcslade124

Member
No cardinals. I don't think the full red stripe has come back after transfer. The neons are a couple tanks down.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
They do look like it though
 
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Rcslade124

Member
These two look sick. Ugh hoped for happy fish
 
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Rcslade124

Member
And a lot have this white hump on them.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
Test are all fine maybe high nitrates I could do a water change.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
Less mangled as before
 
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Rcslade124

Member

jake37

Member
Why is your nitrate so high ? It should be near 0 if you just added these fishes one day ago. I hate the colour test but in the photo it looks near 80 which cardinals will dislike. Also on the first photo the white lump on the tail is a big concern. It sort of looks like fungus but did you buy it with that lump or is it new ? Given the size I would think it came that way which is a really bad sign.

If you purchased them with that white stuff I would demand a refund and find a better store.

Rcslade124 said:
Test are all fine maybe high nitrates I could do a water change.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
I honestly don't remeber it being there. So I don't know how it got so big so fast. Of course the store closes in like 10mins I can try to call them. But I am worried about the 3 fish I have coming tomorrow ugh
 
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Rcslade124

Member
It's only like 10-20.
 

goldface

Member
I think a few deaths are sometimes inevitable. Always get a few more than what you're planning. So, for instance, next time if you decide to get 6, get 3-5 more.
 
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Rcslade124

Member
Does this belly look right? And that white back?
 
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Rcslade124

Member
And I got 15 expecting some losses. Figured I'd add more later if I los some
 

86 ssinit

Member
Yes you can always expect deaths with those type of fish. Me I like to buy small. Like if your looking for 20 I would buy 10 and let them sit in the tank for a week and see how they do. If good I would than buy more. Good is not losing more than 25%. Thing with cardinals is they sell fast. I like to view the fish at the store and than buy at a later date. This way you can see how there doing at the store. If they’ve been in the store for 2 weeks and still alive they have a good chance of making it.
 

jake37

Member
The belly is fine. Also I don't think you should expect a few deaths. These fishes are definitely not healthy and you will likely suffer near total loss; but if you receive healthy fishes and put them into a good home you should expect 99% success rate. Also I would raise the temp to 80 or 81...

Rcslade124 said:
Does this belly look right? And that white back?
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Grrrr the last one is Columnaris to me.
Does the one in the first pic have a white internal spot just in the tailbase ?
 
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Rcslade124

Member
Ok down to 7. They are all colorful. No white patches. Did 80% water change. Unfortunate I don't have a real qt. So picking up apistogramma now. 0,0,0.25ish fingers crossed for safe shipment and acclimate. And a good day while I'm at work.
 

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