32 gallon fish less cycle question…

My friend is cycling a 32g tank. She had a filter bag with gravel, decor and filter sponge in her other cycled tank with fish unit for over a month and moved it to that tank. Still wasn’t cycled. Her water from tap (no softener) is ph-8.2, ammonia-4.0 (yes 4.0) no nitrite and nitrate 5.0.

She has been dosing with pure ammonia for a week now 5 drops per gallon and her current tank numbers are ph 8.2, ammonia-0, nitrite-.5-1.0 and nitrates 20+ I have never done a fishless cycle just moved media from old tanks and done water changes as necessary to control for ammonia spikes. I’m just looking for suggestions for next step for her thanks.

Not sure of Gh/KH-attached photos because I’m having a hard time reading the nitrite/trate

 

First of all - If your friend has 4ppm ammonia from the tap there is no need to dose pure ammonia.
That level of ammonia from the tap is concerning. The tank will go through an ammonia spike with every water change.

I'd like a second test on the tap just to be absolutely certain.

Regarding the fishless cycle - the test results are looking great.
0ppm ammonia means that its all converted to nitrite.
0.25ppm nitrite means that it almost all converted to nitrate.
Dark nitrate (regardless of what shade of orange/red) confirms the first 2 tests and things are progressing as they should.

The big question is: how fast can this tank reduce all ammonia and nitrite down to 0ppm?

Ideally we want to see this happen in 24 hours.

Now consider this: If you do a 50% water change, how high does that raise the ammonia in the tank? And then....how fast will all of the ammonia and nitrite drop to 0ppm?

The answer to those questions will help us determine the next steps.

If the ammonia from the tap is truly 4ppm then I would also consider heavily planting this tank and doing frequent small water changes (20-25% at a time)
The plants will help control the ammonia and the small water changes will mitigate the amount of ammonia going into the tank.

 

I had her retest the ammonia several times. Test some distilled water and test the hose spigot and I think she even got a new test kit at one point to make sure.

I’ll have her do a 50% water change and see how the ammonia and nitrites go.

she normally doses prime with water change should I have her not do that this time? She’s on city water.

 

I had her retest the ammonia several times. Test some distilled water and test the hose spigot and I think she even got a new test kit at one point to make sure.

I’ll have her do a 50% water change and see how the ammonia and nitrites go.

Initially that will probably drop the nitrite to an undetectable level. But lets see how much ammonia rises at 50%.

If we set a goal of having less that 1ppm of ammonia in the tank after the water change then that will help us figure out how much water to change in the future.

 

Initially that will probably drop the nitrite to an undetectable level. But lets see how much ammonia rises at 50%.

If we set a goal of having less that 1ppm of ammonia in the tank after the water change then that will help us figure out how much water to change in the future.

Ok so 50% water change, no prime just for testing purposes and recheck after 24 hours?

 

Ok so 50% water change, no prime just for testing purposes and recheck after 24 hours?

Well you need to use Prime to dechlorinate the water.

Prime wont eliminate the ammonia. It will only convert it to ammonium....it will still cycle.

But the chlorine will kill the cycle.
So definitely please use Prime.

But yes...test ammonia right after the water change and see how high the water change raised the ammonia level.

Then check again in 24 hours.

 

She did 50% water change and 24 hours later ammonia is 1.0 nitrite is still .25 and nitrate is still 20ish. Forgot to have her test it right after water change. Her tap also has 5ppm nitrate.

 

So it appears that the nitrite is converting more efficiently than the ammonia.

We really need to know that ammonia value right after the 50% water change to know where we started.

But at any rate....if after 24 hours the ammonia has dropped to 1ppm then that means that there was a whole lot more to begin with and a 50% water change is too much.

We want to be below 1ppm ammonia right after the water change. 0.5ppm would be ideal.

If you can figure out how much water you can change and afterwards the ammonia is below 1ppm....then detoxify that ammonia with Prime and all of that ammonia converts in 24 hours or less...you should be ok.

 

So it appears that the nitrite is converting more efficiently than the ammonia.

We really need to know that ammonia value right after the 50% water change to know where we started.

But at any rate....if after 24 hours the ammonia has dropped to 1ppm then that means that there was a whole lot more to begin with and a 50% water change is too much.

We want to be below 1ppm ammonia right after the water change. 0.5ppm would be ideal.

If you can figure out how much water you can change and afterwards the ammonia is below 1ppm....then detoxify that ammonia with Prime and all of that ammonia converts in 24 hours or less...you should be ok.

Ok, and you are saying still not to add any ammonia still even though it’s fishless? I understand the tap is high, but I’m having a hard time understanding why as it works it’s way back to zero we wouldn’t be adding.

 

Ok, and you are saying still not to add any ammonia still even though it’s fishless? I understand the tap is high, but I’m having a hard time understanding why as it works it’s way back to zero we wouldn’t be adding.

Because I think this tank is cycled.

I really do. The nitrite level is a dead giveaway.

It's only 32g so its not likely that this tank is going to be overstocked and overfed. So im not worried about the fish and the food producing more than 1ppm ammonia in 24 hours. The biggest obstacle that we have to account for here is the tap water. (And then nitrate control)

To test my theory...and since the last ammonia test showed the level at 1ppm...wait 24 hours from the time that test was taken and see if its not all converted.

Another reason to not dose pure ammonia is because of all of the nitrate it will create. You can't just dilute it with water changes with ammonia heavy tap water. You will just create more nitrate.

I would consider lots of plants to prevent algae and to help control ammonia and nitrate.

Small controlled water changes will be the best way to dose ammonia and control nitrate in this tank.

The nitrate level will eventually equalize and reach a point where it cannot be lowered without assistance from plants or chemical filtration.

 

Ok thank you so much for explaining…this makes sense to me now. I have always used old media to do my tanks so this was new to me. I told her about the plants for her nitrates and not to over feed since she can’t do big water changes. It will be a platy tank.

 

So immediately after a 40% water change and prime ammonia was 1.0 nitrite 0 nitrates were 20 (down from 40). After 24 hours she had the same readings and then today 48 hours later she was ammonia 0-0.25 no nitrite and 20 nitrate.

 

Sounds like the tank is very close to being cycled, but still has a little way to go.

She needs to do another water change (I would experiment with 30%) as soon as the ammonia is reading zero to prevent the ammonia converting bacteria from dying back.

 

My opinion, this tank, because of the tap water is going to be difficult.

Something to think about. RO water or collected rainwater and just topping off initially, then adding ammendments as needed to the water for GH and KH. The cycle or plants can only do so much, with the tap water there's gonna be a period after a water change the tank isn't safe and I don't trust Prime to handle it either depending on the pH and where that is. Just saying that's a lot of ammonia out of the tap....

 

My opinion, this tank, because of the tap water is going to be difficult.

Something to think about. RO water or collected rainwater and just topping off initially, then adding ammendments as needed to the water for GH and KH. The cycle or plants can only do so much, with the tap water there's gonna be a period after a water change the tank isn't safe and I don't trust Prime to handle it either depending on the pH and where that is. Just saying that's a lot of ammonia out of the tap....

Completely agree.
But if RO water isn't an option...the water changes need to be small. That's vital.