3 Siamese Algae Eater Do Not Move And Stay In Bottom

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by VIARPE, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. VIARPENew MemberMember

    Hello, I've been fishkeeping for 4 years now.
    I have 2 tanks and currently have a problem I can't figure out in one.
    I'll start with my specs:
    -4 Crossocheilus Siamensis (Siamese Algae eater), 2 of 11 cm, 2 of 5 cm.
    -4 Thayeria Boehlkei (Penguin Tetra)
    - Planorbis sp and trumpet snails in low numbers
    -Heavily Planted: lots of anubias, some hygrophila polysperma, some java fern.
    - Driftwood since it started: same piece of driftwood.
    - Gravel substrate
    - No CO2
    - Avg Temperature 26ºC
    -NH3 and NO2: 0
    -NO3: usually 100mgl before waterchange, 50gml after waterchange. It's tough to get it lower since out of the tap its 25mgl.
    -PH: I don't remember, havent checked in years since I can't change it, but I remember it was fine... like 7. I'd rather keep it stable rather than try to force it and be unstable.

    I went on a little vacation, leaving the house alone for 2 and a half days. This morning, after returning, I go to check this tank to find the my 2 big Siamese Algae Eaters in the bottom, barely moving. One of them is sided and only breathes, the only moves ocasionally only to stop resting in some anubia roots, without moving much. I can't find one of the smaller SAEs that I have. All penguin tetras are behaving normally. I haven't added anything to the aquarium since like 2 years ago.
    Manteinance is regular and normal, nothing has changed.
    What could be the issue? I just did a partial water change to get the NO3 to 50mgl (monday is water change day). I added an ir bubbler to get more oxigen in the water in case that helps.
    I added SERA Toxivec just in case.
    Sometimes we do the water changes with SERA Aquatan, sometimes without.
    Any help will be welcome, I'm desperate.
    Thank you and greetings from Chile.

  2. VIARPENew MemberMember

    Oh, more info I just remembered:
    The filter was working fine before and after the return. It's an internal filter for 120 L, Fluval. However, 2 or 3 weeks ago it stopped working for a week due to snails blocking the motor. It has been working for at least 2 weeks now.
  3. VIARPENew MemberMember

    edit 2: oh, and most water changes are done with purified water for human drinking. This one:   since I thought it was more pure than tap water. At least its softer since snails have gotten very white and their population has decreased since I started that practice 1 or 2 years ago.
  4. VIARPENew MemberMember

    edit3: On reddit a user recomended to check their gills in case it was chloramine posoning: they are fine.
    Also, I found the missing small one. After the things I just did, 3 of the 4 SAEs have started behaving more normally, like, sometimes resting above leaves or flat rocks, and sometimes swimming really fast from one point to another. Now it's just the one that was at the bottom at first that still is sided and barely breathing.
  5. VIARPENew MemberMember

    edit 4: the still-sick SAE is a Crossocheilus Langei
  6. Dragones5150918Well Known MemberMember

    I'm a little confused. So going to as a bunch of questions.

    You said 57L tank, what shape? Octagon? Rectangle? Footprint of the tank does matter in fish keeping.

    If I understood right, 50mgl converted to American pmm is the exact same number, your running with 50ppm nitrate, you got super high nitrates in the tank.

    Please check the PH. Water changes during the seasons in our taps. When it rains and flooding occurs, mineral amounts drop, which can effect the PH.

    Do you have a Alkaline (KH) and Hardness (GH) test avaible to you? If not, does your local fish store have it? I suggest to test those and post it, so we have a better idea on the make up of your water.

    As for the SAE, is there any other symptoms?
  7. VIARPENew MemberMember

    It's a parallelepiped, 88x30x25 cm or so.
    Tap water is 25 mgl NO3 so I now use Nestle Pure Life alongside it to help it lower. I even have a No-nitrates product. Still have trouble to lower them...
    Here it barely rains and it doesn't flood. In Chile we get the water straight out of the mountains. I'll measure pH again though.
    I do have a kH and gH test. They are really high. I haven't measured them as of late. Before I started using Nestle Pure life which has a gH of 0,5 if I remember right, it was 20°gH lol... Water is really hard here.
    I checked other symptoms and they were dropsy symptoms. Scales up, reddish anus, fat belly, reddish belly on the downside. I isolated it in a hospital tank and treated with SERA Backtopur tablets: heated water and heavily oxigenated. It died overnight. My LFS sold me a tablet from an open box, they said the box originally had lots of them and they sold them separate since you only use one tablet per treatment and the original package had lots and was really expensive. That sounded fair but I'm guessing it was out of date and it killed my SAE since it had blood in its eyes in the morning, and even when it was really up the last day I could see it surviving a little more. Don't know...
    Thank you for your reply.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  8. tommywantfishyWell Known MemberMember

    Never had a prob with 30ppm nitrates. I also plant heavily. Plants will eat the nitrates up and will balance your aquarium much more than a nitrate lowering chemical. Throw some Anacharis in there. It is cheap and can be floated or planted. Propagation is easy. Cut and replant....or just let it float. Should bring your numbers down naturally. Naturally is cheaper, prettier, and easier. Gl!

    Purigen is epic in addition to the aforementioned measures.
  9. Dragones5150918Well Known MemberMember

    Hmmmm. I fully understand why you use filtered water. As long as your KH does not go below 5°KH and your GH does not go below 6°GH at water change, you should be good. I caution you though, that if any of the parameters drop to rapidly (PH, KH, GH, and nitrate), you can create a shock to the system. I'm assuming this could be the root cause to the problem of dropsy manifesting. In other words, if your tank has been running at 20°GH, and you did a 50% water change with less then 1°GH, you just dropped your tank to 11°GH to rapidly, which cause osmotic issues (the mineral absorption from the water), and allows bacterial and fungal infections to set in. Same with dropping nitrates to fast.

    I'm not sure if you can get the same products, but Nitra-Zorb and De*Nitrate can be purchased, and will help drop the nitrates in your tank at a slow steady pace. I believe both can be recharged and used several times before you need to purchase new product. As suggested, fast growing floating plants also help. I personally have Hornwart floating in my tank, and have to cut it back every few weeks so my rooted plants can get light. There is also sludge removers, but I caution the use of them, especially in planted tanks. I used one product because I has high nitrate from my tap during a drout here, and I could not get my tank below 20ppm and had bad algy and datoms problem. I used Aqua-Veteo Remediation as directed for the first dose, and with in a few days my nitrate went from 40ppm to 0 and stayed there for a month, stunning half my plants. Lost most of my Hornwart, java moss stopped growing, bacopa lost its leaves and stopped growing, and lost all my wistetia and I had to buy new. My java fern lost several leaves as well. So caution is advised when using sludge removers.

    So I think the root cause of your SAE issues is your fight against the nitrates. I'm not sure what bacteria your fighting with the dropsy though.
  10. VIARPENew MemberMember

    Thank you for your answers.
    I'll check on those GH and KH levels on the bottled water!
    I currently have a de-nitrate from API I think running in the filter!

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