2nd Yellow Cobra Guppy Dead!

I have a 20 gallon peaceful freshwater community tank. Last week I found our yellow cobra guppy dead suddenly. I did not see any issues with the other fish. Friday I added 3 new guppies, one was a yellow cobra guppy. I found that one dead this am. I thought maybe someone doesn't like yellow guppies?

When the first died this is how it was stocked: 3 guppies, one female betta, 6 neon tetras, 1 mystery , 1-4 crs. Planted tank. Thu guppy had a whole in its tail when I found him.

When the 2nd died: 5 guppies, 1 female betta, 11 neon tetras, 1 mystery snail, 5 amano shrimp, 1-4 crs, 1 African dwarf frog. The ADF was dead this morning also and wasn't acting well yesterday. The rest of the fish looked fine including the now dead guppy. Its tail was tattered this am and something is wrong with the betta this am.

PH 7.4 AM 0 NO2 0 NO3 5PPM

editing to add these photos.

 

My guess would be that it's the betta, but what are your water parameters?

 

I posted h20 params. Ph: 7.4, amm.: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate. I forgot to take to look at the temperature and I'm on the road right now is there something else you were looking for?

 

I posted h20 params. Ph: 7.4, amm.: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate. I forgot to take to look at the temperature and I'm on the road right now is there something else you were looking for?

Sorry, I must have skipped over the ammonia. Can you post a picture of the tank?

 

Sorry, I must have skipped over the ammonia. Can you post a picture of the tank?

Np, I will soon. It will prob be about 1 hour (when I can get to my computer )

 

I don't know if this was the cause of the ADF's death, but they tend to do better in groups. Sorry for your loss.

 

Sorry, I must have skipped over the ammonia. Can you post a picture of the tank?

I have a google link for the photos.

They were all taken today. I took one of the tank as a whole. The betta definitely has a growth on her which I mistook to be something wrong with her coloring before. The guppy and the frog had only been in the tank for one full day.

I don't know if this was the cause of the ADF's death, but they tend to do better in groups. Sorry for your loss.

I did not know that :-/. I only had him for one day though.

I moved the betta into a 4.5 gallon bucket and dropped a Jungle brand fungus clear fizz tab in it. I feel so bad I didn't notice anything wrong before. Looking at her now I think she must have had the fungus on her top fin for a while.

Do I need to treat the 20 gallon for fungus also?

 

The betta has stress stripes (horizontal stripes) and clamped fins. I would do a 50 percent water change as well as a salt bath (10-15 minutes in a container of water with salt. It seems odd that it doesn't seem to be affecting a number of the fish. I would also do daily 25 percent water changes for about a week and see if it helps.

 

Guppies need hard water.
What is your GH reading?

 

The betta has stress stripes (horizontal stripes) and clamped fins. I would do a 50 percent water change as well as a salt bath (10-15 minutes in a container of water with salt. It seems odd that it doesn't seem to be affecting a number of the fish. I would also do daily 25 percent water changes for about a week and see if it helps.

She's always had stress stripes when anyone walks up to the tank. She didn't have them when I first walked up to remove her from the tank but she is definitely not feeling well. She's very mopey (usually active and checking out anything I'm doing) she didn't eat and was trying to hide from me. I've never done a salt bath. A little worried about messing it up. Thanks for your input!

Oh, I also thought it might be only affecting her due to her stressing from the new tank mates.

Guppies need hard water.
What is your GH reading?

Unfortunately, I don't have a test for that. I do add a little bit of salt though because the petsmart water test often shows low alkalinity.

 

She's always had stress stripes when anyone walks up to the tank. She didn't have them when I first walked up to remove her from the tank but she is definitely not feeling well. She's very mopey (usually active and checking out anything I'm doing) she didn't eat and was trying to hide from me. I've never done a salt bath. A little worried about messing it up. Thanks for your input!

Oh, I also thought it might be only affecting her due to her stressing from the new tank mates.

Clamped fins tends to indicate a water quality issue.

 

 

That looks like Columnaris. At this point, I would treat the entire tank with salt (non-iodine) to be safe at a ration of 1tbs for every gallon of water (can be adjusted).

 

is that safe for the plants, shrimp, and snail too?

 

is that safe for the plants, shrimp, and snail too?

What type of snails?

 

Unfortunately, I don't have a test for that. I do add a little bit of salt though because the petsmart water test often shows low alkalinity.

Adding aquarium salt will not raise the water hardness (GH).

If you are on a municipal water supply, you should be able to see water quality reports.

Follow Katie13's advice and do a water change.

 

mystery snail.

 

Columnaris Symptoms And Treatment

 

Adding aquarium salt will not raise the water hardness (GH).

If you are on a municipal water supply, you should be able to see water quality reports.

Follow Katie13's advice and do a water change.

Okay, I found this, "Charlotte’s tap water in 2016 averaged 30 parts per million of trace minerals, so it is considered “soft” water. In 2016, Charlotte Water averaged 8.5 mg/L sulfate and 3.8 mg/L sodium in drinking water leaving the treatment plants." So I do need to boost the GH. This one guppy had only been in there one day along with 2 others that are still living. the previous 3 guppies I've had for a few months, I think 5 or 6 months now.

 

If the betta has caught columnaris, then it's pretty safe to say that the others died of columnaris as well. I'm not sure if ADFs can get columnaris but it would explain a lot as one of the most common strains of columnaris kills will little or no symptoms. Since guppies are highly inbred then they could have been more susceptible to it than the betta, who has at least hung on for now. As for the softness, guppies ideally need medium-hard to hard water, but I think they can survive in soft water, although it would be hard for them to truly thrive. It'd be like keeping them in a 65f tank. Did you acclimate them properly, as that would also explain the death of the ADF?

 

What I found with my guppies was that the stronger ones were able to deal with the soft water, while two of others could not.
They both died within 2 weeks of each other.
I have used Seachem Replenish to boost the GH.
I now use Seachem Equilibrium, since my tanks have plants in them.

 

What I found with my guppies was that the stronger ones were able to deal with the soft water, while two of others could not.
They both died within 2 weeks of each other.
I have used Seachem Replenish to boost the GH.
I now use Seachem Equilibrium, since my tanks have plants in them.

Hmm, I'd be a bit careful about using man-made products, since they have a bad rep as well as the fact that there are many natural methods to safely 'mess' with your parameters to make them more suitable for your fish.

 

If the betta has caught columnaris, then it's pretty safe to say that the others died of columnaris as well. I'm not sure if ADFs can get columnaris but it would explain a lot as one of the most common strains of columnaris kills will little or no symptoms. Since guppies are highly inbred then they could have been more susceptible to it than the betta, who has at least hung on for now. As for the softness, guppies ideally need medium-hard to hard water, but I think they can survive in soft water, although it would be hard for them to truly thrive. It'd be like keeping them in a 65f tank. Did you acclimate them properly, as that would also explain the death of the ADF?

I hope I can save the betta. I thought she had died b4 I had her bucket ready. She was on her side not moving. But she is still kicking! God Save Our Betta!

 

I hope I can save the betta. I thought she had died b4 I had her bucket ready. She was on her side not moving. But she is still kicking! God Save Our Betta!

Indeed. Good luck, and send the betta my regards!

 

I dosed the 20 gallon with Jungal fungus clear tabs and the nearby male betta tank (just in case). Ill let you guys know how it goes.

As for th ADF, the lady at the lfs said their adf's from the past month had been dying with fuzzy growth on their legs, which is exactly what I found on mine. Sounds like his death timing was a coincidence and unrelated to the guppies and betta.

 

I dosed the 20 gallon with Jungal fungus clear tabs and the nearby male betta tank (just in case). Ill let you guys know how it goes.

As for th ADF, the lady at the lfs said their adf's from the past month had been dying with fuzzy growth on their legs, which is exactly what I found on mine. Sounds like his death timing was a coincidence and unrelated to the guppies and betta.

Columnaris detected!
That explains everything. Most stores use a single filter system, so disease will spread. This confirms it more than anything else so far.

 

Adding aquarium salt will not raise the water hardness (GH).

If you are on a municipal water supply, you should be able to see water quality reports.

Follow Katie13's advice and do a water change.

As I understand it, salt is apart of GH but it includes other minerals as well.

I Havnt found much about providing the right GH for guppies. Should I add some coral reef salt in the same dosage as freshwater aquarium salt?

 

As I understand it, salt is apart of GH but it includes other minerals as well.

I Havnt found much about providing the right GH for guppies. Should I add some coral reef salt in the same dosage as freshwater aquarium salt?

It's actually more to do with calcium and magnesium. Aquarium salt is sodium. If you want to raise gH then you should look at epsom salts (more specifically magnesium sulfate) and calcium sulfate. Here's a quote I found:

'Epson salts are primarily magnesium sulfate. You can get food grade gypsum (calcium sulfate) from a home brewing store. Both the these add sulfates of coarse. Calcium Chloride is also available from similar sources but also adds chloride ions. Calcium Carbonate is argonite, chalk, and several other products but it will also increase carbonate hardness (KH).' From this I'd say calcium carbonate is the safest but it's up to you.

For now though, you should focus on the columnaris.

 

It's actually more to do with calcium and magnesium. Aquarium salt is sodium. If you want to raise gH then you should look at epsom salts (more specifically magnesium sulfate) and calcium sulfate. Here's a quote I found:

'Epson salts are primarily magnesium sulfate. You can get food grade gypsum (calcium sulfate) from a home brewing store. Both the these add sulfates of coarse. Calcium Chloride is also available from similar sources but also adds chloride ions. Calcium Carbonate is argonite, chalk, and several other products but it will also increase carbonate hardness (KH).' From this I'd say calcium carbonate is the safest but it's up to you.

For now though, you should focus on the columnaris.

Yeah, I'm not going to mess with anything else until I'm done treating them. I kinda forgot about this but... a while ago I added 1/32 tsp baking soda to the tank. At the time the PH was 6.5 and would drop a good amount between water changes. My male betta tank had dropped to 6.0. The baking soda brought both to 7.4. The 20 gallon has stayed there, the betta tank drops but not as much.

I planned on adding that amount per 2 gallons of H2O change but the large PH jump scared me so I left it at that.

 

Yeah, I'm not going to mess with anything else until I'm done treating them. I kinda forgot about this but... a while ago I added 1/32 tsp baking soda to the tank. At the time the PH was 6.5 and would drop a good amount between water changes. My male betta tank had dropped to 6.0. The baking soda brought both to 7.4. The 20 gallon has stayed there, the betta tank drops but not as much.

I planned on adding that amount per 2 gallons of H2O change but the large PH jump scared me so I left it at that.

Are you using tap water in wcs? Because if you are, there's something wrong with your tap water. I'm wondering how it gets that acidic. I've heard of 6.8pH water but never 6.5 or as low as 6.0. The fact that it varies quite wildly makes me think something is contaminating it. Tap water should not be that acidic.

 

Are you using tap water in wcs? Because if you are, there's something wrong with your tap water. I'm wondering how it gets that acidic. I've heard of 6.8pH water but never 6.5 or as low as 6.0. The fact that it varies quite wildly makes me think something is contaminating it. Tap water should not be that acidic.

I do use tap water. Soon after that though, I realized I had a cycling problem (I learned how to read the signs. I was doing weekly water changes but also had some ammonia and nitrite in the water (and yes my poor bettas fins were suffering) I was using a weekly bacteria which I now understand to be a bad choice? Sooo, I think it was the waste making it acidic.

Baby Girl survived the night but still isn't eating and very lethargic. I spotted nasty red streaking on 1 of the new guppies in the main tank (the tequila sunrise) pictures linked below.

 

I do use tap water. Soon after that though, I realized I had a cycling problem (I learned how to read the signs. I was doing weekly water changes but also had some ammonia and nitrite in the water (and yes my poor bettas fins were suffering) I was using a weekly bacteria which I now understand to be a bad choice? Sooo, I think it was the waste making it acidic.

Well, you had a non-functioning cycle for two reasons: 1. Using weekly garbage bacteria and 2. the acidic water slowing down the cycle (the bacteria prefer neutral or alkaline water and will stop working at 6.0pH). Ammonia is an alkaline and nitrite is a weak acid so they won't acidify the water. Your tap water is the only possible culprit, which means there's something contaminating it because it seems to be too acidic one water change and off the charts too acidic the next. If it changed your pH to 6.0 after just a standard change then it has to be 5.somethingpH. Does your water taste normal?

 

okay so I can't see the streaking, but this is bringing back some bad memories.

red streaks on a fish's fins or body usually indicates septicemia - very painful disease, I had a female betta (mama) catch it while fighting columnaris, she died within 12h after the streaking showed up (stayed home to keep watch on the columnaris). do you know how to treat for columnaris? it isn't a "add meds = nobody dies" situation, but it is possible to save a few.

 

okay so I can't see the streaking, but this is bringing back some bad memories.

red streaks on a fish's fins or body usually indicates septicemia - very painful disease, I had a female betta (mama) catch it while fighting columnaris, she died within 12h after the streaking showed up (stayed home to keep watch on the columnaris). do you know how to treat for columnaris? it isn't a "add meds = nobody dies" situation, but it is possible to save a few.

I had one of my guppies contract what I thought was VHS once. As far as I know it isn't treatable. But of course, there's more than one possibility for septicemia. Horrible disease.

After looking at the photos, there's nothing wrong with him. The red-pinkish streak is a normal feature on tequila sunsets . I should know, I have one.

Lovely tank and fish btw!

 

Just wanted to throw out a few things. Going forward don't add any more ADF's - they easily starve in community tanks, they can accidentally nip fins, and they need shallow tanks so they can get to the top for air, they're not great swimmers and in bigger tanks they can drown. Also, the neons and your betta are temperature incompatible - neons need low 70's and bettas need 78-80.

 

The female betta died

After looking at the photos, there's nothing wrong with him. The red-pinkish streak is a normal feature on tequila sunsets . I should know, I have one.

okay, good Everyone in the main tank is looking good then. I'm really thinking the frog had columnaris and gave it to my betta. She was very curious about. I learned the hard way that I absolutely need to quarantine.

As for the water, I was testing it b4 and after H2o changes the 6.0 was right b4 a wc. I didn't test his tank b4 adding the antibiotics this week and since the water's blue... Ill have to wait till it clears. That is weird stuff though.

Just wanted to throw out a few things. Going forward don't add any more ADF's - they easily starve in community tanks, they can accidentally nip fins, and they need shallow tanks so they can get to the top for air, they're not great swimmers and in bigger tanks they can drown. Also, the neons and your betta are temperature incompatible - neons need low 70's and bettas need 78-80.

Interesting, I read a lot of mixed views on the neon tetras, what about other tetras? My water temp is 78. I won't get a frog, they are adorable though and there's info saying they are easy to keep etc etc. It seems the pet shops are unreliable

okay so I can't see the streaking, but this is bringing back some bad memories.

red streaks on a fish's fins or body usually indicates septicemia - very painful disease, I had a female betta (mama) catch it while fighting columnaris, she died within 12h after the streaking showed up (stayed home to keep watch on the columnaris). do you know how to treat for columnaris? it isn't a "add meds = nobody dies" situation, but it is possible to save a few.

I added Jungal fungus clear fizz tabs and separated my betta who showed obvious signs of it. She didn't make it

 

My condolences for the betta.

As for the neons, they should be fine as long as they are acclimated properly. Emphasis on properly because a fish as sensitive as a neon tetra is hard to properly acclimate if you're not used to doing it. With all due respect, I'm not sure what you're talking about Racing1113 as many people keep neons and bettas together with no problems. This is legitimately the first time I've heard someone suggest not keeping neons and bettas together because of temperature.

 

I've heard about neon's sensitivity. I was happy that 11 out of 12 made the adjustment. I bought them in 2 batches, 1 from the first batch died just after but I've had those ones for quite a while now.

 

My condolences for the betta.

As for the neons, they should be fine as long as they are acclimated properly. Emphasis on properly because a fish as sensitive as a neon tetra is hard to properly acclimate if you're not used to doing it. With all due respect, I'm not sure what you're talking about Racing1113 as many people keep neons and bettas together with no problems. This is legitimately the first time I've heard someone suggest not keeping neons and bettas together because of temperature.

Maybe you should do some research. Neons like cooler waters, 71-74. Bettas need 78-80. Many people keep a lot of fish together that really aren't meant to live together. That doesn't make them right. Can neons live in higher temps? Yes. But it will shorten their lifespan. It's a difference of surviving and thriving.

There's a good comment by chromedome52 towards the end.

Neon Tetras Tank and Temp

Interesting, I read a lot of mixed views on the neon tetras, what about other tetras? My water temp is 78. I won't get a frog, they are adorable though and there's info saying they are easy to keep etc etc. It seems the pet shops are unreliable

ADF's CAN be easy to keep, but usually in a species only tank. They're slow eaters, have poor eyesight, and aren't great swimmers so they can be easily outcompeted in a community tank. I had 4 in a 10 gallon, it was a pretty fun tank. Unless you're getting another betta, a temp of 73-74 would be perfect for the neons and the guppies.

 

You probably should be using an antibiotic at this point.