2nd Guppy now dead with huge hole in her side?

Discussion in 'Guppy' started by LindaMS, Jul 22, 2015.

  1. LindaMSValued MemberMember

    Hi again
    I expect you are all getting sick of me! I am now tearing down the tank, boiled the lava rock, going to boil the gravel and figure out from here best way to clean the filter out.
    My second girl died overnight and was the only fish in the tank. I havent even seen any of the tiny snails recently. She had a huge hole in her side near the gills and that has worried me more, can any internal parasite do that?

    I have driftwood in there with a plant that I dumped in salt water and would like to know how to save it/clean it if possible. I also had babytears growing in the tank can that be disinfected and saved?

    My new fish arrived and I had to put them in a 30+ litre tank that I added quickstart and stress zyme to to as I had no other choice. Water reading were good this morning so far, I will do it daily, all fish are still looking normal except one platy that went and hid up inside the filter area and seemed a bit sluggish on arrival after the 24 hour journey from Bundaberg to Katoomba.

    I am worried sick about this tank and if there is something really horrible that will be hard to get rid of.

    Help with the plants and what to do with them and the filter to disinfect would be great. Also anyone know why she would have a hole?

  2. Et tuValued MemberMember

    The hole might have been decay,or from a bacterial/viral infection, they can leave damaged tissue. Bleach, is what I would use. Empty the tank,fill with cool water, add regular bleach not the splashless or perfumed kind..Clorox concentrated bleach states on the bottle that it kills viruses & germs.
    Use the dilution ratio listed on the bottle,( I would double it) soak all items that you are going to re use right in the tank.Toss out all filter media, set the filter up on the bleach/water tank and let it run for 30 or so minutes.Be sure to wipe the bleach water on the outside of the tank.

    When done soaking rinse,rinse,rinse. A final soak in cool water with a lot of dechlorinator. it's winter where you live hope you can do this inside like the tub/shower area. Wish you luck.

  3. LindaMSValued MemberMember

    Hi Et tu

    Winter here too, sadly I do not use bleach at home I use another antibacterial cleaner that contains lactic acid so need to get some .

    Will the fish decay that much in less than 7 hours?

    I also read something where a woman aquarist did a test of her aquarium water + 50% bleach and under the microscope some stuff still living!! She said it is not the answer to all things and that in pre 1980 books bleach was used for cleaning and was never considered to be a steriliser.

    She said salt kills more?? So bleach and salt??? maybe? I also have a professional steamer that would shoot boiling point steam onto aquarium if that also helps. At the moment I have all filter parts in super hot salt water. Thrown away the media, boiling the noodles and have done the rock. I intend to boil my gravel (it was new for this tank) to hopefully cook the escargot...I hope they don't have eggs that can survive that??

    What about my driftwood and plants? I read someone say to keep them in tapwater for a week and the chlorine will kill off anything - is that true?


  4. BluestreakflWell Known MemberMember

    Could have been Hemmoragic Septicemia. Basically a lesion that can be caused by some kind of blockage, or infection, that basically explodes.

  5. LindaMSValued MemberMember

    I just read up on the Hemmoragic Septicemia it is a virulent virus and does not even die if frozen but is sensitive to heat and bleach. The girl who died today also had reddish streaks on her body. I think you may be onto something as this can also cause lesions and the sort of behaviour they were manifesting. Cold water can assist it and my girls had a night when the water dropped to 19 centigrade through a power outage.

    The really bad part for aquarium owners is the fact that survivors are life long carriers...so a never ending issue. You can really only start again. It can also survive up to a week in dry state.

    I am boiling everything I can and bleaching the rest, I am then going to dry everything and not use it for over a week.

    Keeping my eyes on that quarantine tank and might start running my cycling tank very hot!
  6. Bijou88Well Known MemberMember

    To add, make sure you don't use things like the gravel vac/net that was used in the other tank on your qt without sanitizing, best to be overly cautious. I think using your steamer is a good idea, maybe bleach first and then use the steam as a rinse to make sure everything is very dead. I'm sorry about your girl :(

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Fish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum mobile app
  7. LindaMSValued MemberMember

    Have already doused the vac and the net so hopefully whatever it was is not tough enough to withstand everything I have thrown at it.

    Took my water back to Petbarn today for testing (they will replace your fish if the water is ok). Mine was fine, I think I have gone through half my API test kit in a week...

    They replaced my guppies with two new girls but I am keeping them in their own QT tank until I see what happens this time. I only took them as my new male and one female from a different source were not meant to be on their own. Hopefully if these are ok my boy will have his three ladies, but I am not holding my breath. If these are ill and my other QT tank is fine I will never buy from Petbarn again.

    I am feeding the planted 90 litre tank with fishfood to try to cycle it but it has only been going 6 days, the two QTs were done with API Quickstart and I am monitoring water everyday. Should I change water everyday in those?

    I guess if I come through this trial by fire I will be a lot more savvy in future.
  8. Bijou88Well Known MemberMember

    I would only change the water in the qt (quickstart) tanks if the ammonia or nitrites get above 1ppm, as long as they're lower than that I would just leave it and let it do it's thing. Hope everything works out for you and all your new fish buddies stay healthy.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Fish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum mobile app
  9. LindaMSValued MemberMember

    I think I will have a nervous breakdown before I get this all straightened out. I just found one of my new Pacific Blue Eyes being eaten by one of the Bristlenose catfish - I had no idea they were predators! The Blue eyes were bright and happy this afternoon, none looked sick at all so this must have been an attack.

    Also one of the Platys (who are all much larger than the other fish) is bullying another small fish - a long finned white cloud. I can add another tank and move the little guys out tomorrow when I can buy another heater.

    All because I had two sick guppies and discovered that I had too many fish ordered for the 40 litre tank...
  10. BluestreakflWell Known MemberMember

    The BN Plecos are generally not aggressive towards other fish. This can however happen if either a fish is sickly and resting on the bottom, OR if the pleco isn't getting enough protein/meat in its diet. BN Plecos can't live on algae wafers, they need a combo of Algae wafers, sinking catfish pellets (primarily made of shrimp), and fresh veggies. They will also enjoy occasional bloodworms and similar meaty treats.

    Sent from my iPhone using Fish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum
  11. Sarcasm IncludedWell Known MemberMember

    I am sorry for your loss,
    I reviewed your past posts and can say that you weren't dealing with viral scepticemia, or even bacterial scepticemia. Columnaris was the most likely cause from the symptoms shown. Additionally, the spot showing after the death of the guppy is not a suprise, since the bacteria attacks the skin under the scales. Pimafix and Melafix are only good for very mild exteranal bacteria infections and would do nothing to stop columnaris.

    As for sanatizing the tank, you need to scrub the biofilm off in a bkeach solution in order to kill all bacteria. Frequently, people think that just applying the solution will kill, but some bacteria can survive without direct exposure.
    BN plecos can not take down a healthy blue eye, so I would pay close attention to the fish in the tank as well as the water conditions. Blue eyes are sensitive to poor water conditions and nitrate levels of 40-50 for long periods promote illness in them.
    I wish you the best with the rest of your fish keeping. Junebug and claireputput are both very experienced and knowledgable individuals and I recommend that when they make a suggestion that it is one to consider heavily.
  12. LindaMSValued MemberMember

    I originally thought columnaris too, it seems to be a real issue getting a correct ID on these problems. Others told me Ich, so I upped the tank temp. That didn't work and I started to go off the columnaris idea because they did not seem to have the typical fungus look that all the photos of that show. Also the pale patch that became a slight sore appeared just above the gill on both fish.

    Then came the stringy wormy thing and swollen vents on both. I read up on every fish disease extensively, especially scientific papers as opposed to forum advice and nothing really fitted, in fact the internal parasite like fluke or septecemia seemed to come closer.

    In a Centre for Disease Control paper I read this:
    ... municipal water utilitiesattempt to maintain a chlorine residual in the distribution system to discourage microbiological growth.Though chlorine in its various forms is a proven disinfectant, it has been shown to be less effectiveagainst biofilm bacteria.1448 Higher levels of chlorine for longer contact times are necessary toeliminate biofilms.

    As I said I have cleaned out the tank and boiled what I could. The driftwood and plants are soaking in tapwater while I figure out what to do about them (probably throw them away). I am drying everything out and intend to fill with a bleach solution followed by a salt solution and leave both these soaking overnight. I read someone suggested running the filter with the bleach solution in to clean that too. I have thrown away the filter wool and boiled the noodles.

    If whatever it was survives my war on bugs then it will probably rise up to kill us all...

    I truly appreciate all and everyones input here. I hope my questioning nature is not taken as ignoring advice, I am just someone who really likes to have the absolute proof, and that is probably not possible with fish.

    This morning one of the long fin whiteclouds was also dead but floating and not eaten by the Bristlenose. As they have only been in the tank 36 hours and I am monitoring the water twice a day, vaccuming up dirt, and doing a 20% water change each day. I found a slight rise in ammonia to low levels after the first night and have added an ACE tablet to ensure that doesn't happen again.

    So far others seem ok right now and the two girl replacements from Petbarn are ok too after 24 hours.

    The multitank fish were trucked overnight from Bundaberg in North Queensland to Katoomba in NSW so I count myself lucky there are not more dead.

    I have noticed that one of the Pacific Blue eyes seems very aggressive to other fish and is chasing them, in particular the little guppy girl and guppy male. It rams them if it can, so perhaps this has contributed to the two small fish deaths?

    I think one of my new guppys is in labour too, so I have set up a breeding box on the side of the QT tank. I thin it may be too stressful to move her so I am just hoping to save some fry from being eaten and get them into it if they arrive.

    I feel like I have done nothing else for three days!!! I have become a total fish bore in less than a week...

    I have added some photos of my makeshift QT tanks and new 'victims'. I really do not want to lose any more so if anyone spots anything I need to do urgently let me know.

    BTW the blind in down in the laundry and only a little sun getting to tanks in morning. Both tanks have heater, filter and air. Plastic floating plant to help babies if I do not spot them quickly.

    I have added a picture of attila - the pacific blue eye who I believe may be a male? Also my two new guppy replacements and the female and male guppy in the mixed tank. I am keen to know the colours of them for sure if anyone knows. Is it red snakeskin, or mosaic and how does one tell? I assume yellow snakeskin or mosaic. My male is black, but I thought my girl was going to be yellow but she has irridescent blue on her sides sometimes - can anyone advise me of her colour?







    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2018
  13. gypsy32Valued MemberMember


    I also get my fish from livefish.com.au i have them shipped all the way down here to the bottom of Victoria in gippsland, i have made 6 different orders with them over the last 7 months & only 2 fish arrived dead, they were the ghost knives, i guess they were just too fragile to make the trip, all the other fish are still going strong now, i wont buy my fish from anywhere else

    We had a petbarn open in Morwell, i went in to have a look then just turned around & walked out.

    The good thing with livefish is if anything arrives dead or not quite right they will either give you a new one or a refund

    I also have a pacific blue eye, not sure of its sex yet its still too young, i hope its a male as they have the beautiful fins, their eyes are an amazing shade of bright blue aren't they?

    For the first 2-3 days my blue eye did seem to be a bully but that all settled down, i guess he was just sorting out the pecking order

    I am not much help with your guppies, i even have trouble telling males from females, i can only tell the difference when the females are preggers, i have about 15 guppies in total so there is always babies swimming around but they do get eaten, i am wondering if its my ghost shrimp eating them

    I would just continue with your daily water changes to keep things balanced in your tank, in regards to the stuff that your bleaching make sure they are thoroughly rinsed then i would leave them to dry completely, not alot of aquatic parasites can survive out of water so if you let the item dry for a few days you should be safe to reuse it, normally i would suggest to let it sit in the sun for a few days but just like it is here there is no sun..lol

    Sent from my SM-T113 using Fish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum mobile app
  14. Sarcasm IncludedWell Known MemberMember

    I am at work so I can't really look at the photos till I get home, as my phone doesn't like to look at expanded photos from fishlore for some reason. I hope to replace this piece soon with a better phone. Back on topic, the blue eye is a male and I suggest you get at least 6 with most females. Signifer males are aggressive in that they are always displaying. When there are no other rainbows for them to challenge, they will find someone else to "fight" over. The displaying and bumping that they do is all show and doesn't hurt anyone. They tend to loose color and health goes down when kept out of the company of other signifers. With their short lifespans you will want to start breeding ASAP anyway. Signifers are not hard to breed but the females only lay a single egg a day, the size of which will shock you. For good stock, you might ask on rainbow-fish.org and Adrian might chime in with local breeders. If you can get some from him, it is worth the price.

    I will be back a little later but my break is over.
  15. LindaMSValued MemberMember

    OK Panic stations!!!!!

    Last night, tested the water for the 2nd time (did do a 5Litre water change earlier on the 35 ish litre old tank and found I had an ammonia reading of 0.5 from API test. So I quickly did another 5 litre water change and added some stress zyme to the water.

    Tested again and it was still the same :( went to bed despondent and expecting everything to be dead or dying by morning. They are still here, so did another test and it is still exactly the same, am doing another 5 litre change in about 10 mins.

    I do not understand why the reading is not going down. Zero Nitrate and Nitrite. Could it be a false reading because I have ACE tabs in the water? I am so worried and do not want to kill any more of my new fish. And there is no sign of disease or spots or fungus or anything at the moment - 3 days into my QT that will have to be in this small tank until my 90 litre comes up to speed. I am keeping the bottom clean with a vacuum once a day. Not feeding too much, if anything worried I am not feeding enough for them all. Guppies and Platys seem to be too fast on the food for anyone else.

    Am I doing the right thing? No fish with red gills so I am hoping it is a false positive if that is possible?

    I really like the Pacific Blue eyes, their eyes are amazing and if I get through this (never mind my fish!) I will add 5 more females for him. Can't believe I just said that... I am in Australia so Rainbowfish may not be a possibility? Unless they also have Aussies on the board?

    Pregnant guppies, Red one is hanging nose down a lot and hugging her hiding spot behind the heater since last night. Yellow is also hovering near top of tank and sometimes in the floading fake weed. Red still wanted to eat this morning, yellow not interested. I hope it is labour...

    They look healthy otherwise and water tested good last night. Have yet to do that tank this morning.

    Can guppies give birth to some fry and then stop to continue later? If so them maybe the yellow girl is too full from snacking on fry while I slept.

  16. Et tuValued MemberMember

    I would stop feeding them for a few days, they won't die from starvation. Also I would up the water changes to 10 - 15 liters at a time a few times a day. Try to relax, stress is not good for anyone.
  17. Sarcasm IncludedWell Known MemberMember

    I would say for you to go out and catch some yourself but you have the Queensland variant. Fasting them is a good idea, and won't hurt them at all.
    Getting all females would be good for more eggs, but you miss out on the challenge displays if you don't have a second male. I love blue eyes and I have 6 species that I breed, signifer is one of my favorite.
    The first guppy is a blonde(I have a pair of these) after that I can't give you much info on color variants of guppies. My daughters are more into guppies, I'm a rainbowhead.
    The only thing I notice about the QT tanks to be concerned about is that they are on a kitchen counter. When your fish become more important than your appliances, it is an early sign of mts. I am sorry, it is a horribly contagious disease that is spread a lot here at fishlore.
    The ammonia reading is most likely a false reading but give it 24 hours and check it again, no change and I would ignore it.
  18. LindaMSValued MemberMember

    OK I will do that, I am assuming I should leave the filter alone as it is a new tank?

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