29 Gallon Tank Fish-In-Cycle Update - Page 2

mattgirl
Member
I know it is hard but even when adding bottled bacteria or in this case a seeded sponge it still takes time, patience and water changes when doing a fish in cycle. Having some ammonia in the source water does add one more thing. Water changes will be adding some to the tank. It takes time for the bacteria to clear it out.

I could be very wrong but I am wondering if maybe it takes time for the bacteria on the seeded sponge to get used to the parameters of our water. As I said earlier, give it time to work. When I move a sponge from one tank to another I get an instant cycle but the bacteria on that sponge has been grown in my water.

This tank has only been running for a week. No matter what we do or add it takes time for a tank to cycle and if fish are in that tank it also takes water changes to protect them.
 
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R3licx
Member
mattgirl said:
I know it is hard but even when adding bottled bacteria or in this case a seeded sponge it still takes time, patience and water changes when doing a fish in cycle. Having some ammonia in the source water does add one more thing. Water changes will be adding some to the tank. It takes time for the bacteria to clear it out.

I could be very wrong but I am wondering if maybe it takes time for the bacteria on the seeded sponge to get used to the parameters of our water. As I said earlier, give it time to work. When I move a sponge from one tank to another I get an instant cycle but the bacteria on that sponge has been grown in my water.

This tank has only been running for a week. No matter what we do or add it takes time for a tank to cycle and if fish are in that tank it also takes water changes to protect them.
[/QUOTE

I know im just frustrated with the water situation. I accept that the cycle takes time. I just dont wanna see any of the fish die is all.
mattgirl said:
I know it is hard but even when adding bottled bacteria or in this case a seeded sponge it still takes time, patience and water changes when doing a fish in cycle. Having some ammonia in the source water does add one more thing. Water changes will be adding some to the tank. It takes time for the bacteria to clear it out.

I could be very wrong but I am wondering if maybe it takes time for the bacteria on the seeded sponge to get used to the parameters of our water. As I said earlier, give it time to work. When I move a sponge from one tank to another I get an instant cycle but the bacteria on that sponge has been grown in my water.

This tank has only been running for a week. No matter what we do or add it takes time for a tank to cycle and if fish are in that tank it also takes water changes to protect them.
know im just frustrated with the water situation. I accept that the cycle takes time. I just dont wanna see any of the fish die is all.
 
mattgirl
Member
R3licx said:
know im just frustrated with the water situation. I accept that the cycle takes time. I just dont wanna see any of the fish die is all.
I do understand. Water changes and Prime with each one should keep your water pets safe.
 
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R3licx
Member
Todays update, i am looking at buying another bio filter from angelsplus tomorrow. Water is much clearer today
 
mattgirl
Member
R3licx said:
Todays update, i am looking at buying another bio filter from angelsplus tomorrow. Water is much clearer today
You can of course do that but you may want to give it a bit more time. The other member I am working with is seeing some forward progress this morning. I am beginning to think the bacteria on these sponges needs time to get acclimated to the parameters of our water. Once they do they get to work.

Seeing you water getting clearer tells you there is some forward progress. It looks like your ammonia is holding and not going any higher. Is that .25 or .50? In your case you can do water changes as needed to keep the ammonia down. In her case she has ammonia in her source water so water changes won't lower it in the tank.
 
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R3licx
Member
mattgirl said:
You can of course do that but you may want to give it a bit more time. The other member I am working with is seeing some forward progress this morning. I am beginning to think the bacteria on these sponges needs time to get acclimated to the parameters of our water. Once they do they get to work.

Seeing you water getting clearer tells you there is some forward progress. It looks like your ammonia is holding and not going any higher. Is that .25 or .50? In your case you can do water changes as needed to keep the ammonia down. In her case she has ammonia in her source water so water changes won't lower it in the tank.
I have not seen the ammonia spike past 1ppm. I was just thinking of getting another because i wasn't sure if the bio-load was to much for one sponge. I can wait a few more days an see what its like at the middle of the week.
 
mattgirl
Member
R3licx said:
I have not seen the ammonia spike past 1ppm. I was just thinking of getting another because i wasn't sure if the bio-load was to much for one sponge. I can wait a few more days an see what its like at the middle of the week.
Once we have both ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria in our tanks it replicates quickly. As long as you continue running both your original filter and the new sponge filter it should be enough filtration for this tanks bio-load. If the angelsplus sponge is going to do what it is supposed to do you should start seeing some good forward progress by the middle of the week.

If you aren't you may want to look into Fritz-Zyme Turbo Start 700 Freshwater. I have been reading some very good words about it. You may want to read up on it and see if it is something you would want to try instead of buying another seeded sponge. If you aren't already doing so you may want to check out this thread Does bacteria in a bottle really work this fast? | Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Forum | 495208
 
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R3licx
Member
Toodays update - Onto the next water change
 
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R3licx
Member
Meet Doctor Gracie, shes now on the case ! Also todays update.
 
  • Thread Starter
R3licx
Member
mattgirl said:
Once we have both ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria in our tanks it replicates quickly. As long as you continue running both your original filter and the new sponge filter it should be enough filtration for this tanks bio-load. If the angelsplus sponge is going to do what it is supposed to do you should start seeing some good forward progress by the middle of the week.

If you aren't you may want to look into Fritz-Zyme Turbo Start 700 Freshwater. I have been reading some very good words about it. You may want to read up on it and see if it is something you would want to try instead of buying another seeded sponge. If you aren't already doing so you may want to check out this thread Does bacteria in a bottle really work this fast? | Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Forum | 495208
So some st5range things happening.

I changed out my substraite for black sand and instantly saw more activity in some of my Critters. My Power Filter that came with the tank seems to need a replacement carbon fiter. My question is do i need the carbon filter when i have the sponge filter ?. In about a week an half the filter became so gunky an gross it was shutting the filter off today. I have sense taken it out an kept the power on to keep the water moving.

Could this be why its taking longer to see any kind of change with the water ?
 
mattgirl
Member
R3licx said:
So some st5range things happening.

I changed out my substraite for black sand and instantly saw more activity in some of my Critters. My Power Filter that came with the tank seems to need a replacement carbon fiter. My question is do i need the carbon filter when i have the sponge filter ?. In about a week an half the filter became so gunky an gross it was shutting the filter off today. I have sense taken it out an kept the power on to keep the water moving.

Could this be why its taking longer to see any kind of change with the water ?
You don't need the carbon filter. They do tend to clog up as the carbon breaks down. Like many folks, I haven't run carbon in my filters for many years. It isn't necessary. The ONLY time I recommend it is if medication needs to be removed or the tank has an unpleasant odor.

Changing out the substrate during the cycling process may have set it back since the bacteria we are growing is growing on everything in our tank.
 
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R3licx
Member
mattgirl said:
You don't need the carbon filter. They do tend to clog up as the carbon breaks down. Like many folks, I haven't run carbon in my filters for many years. It isn't necessary. The ONLY time I recommend it is if medication needs to be removed or the tank has an unpleasant odor.

Changing out the substrate during the cycling process may have set it back since the bacteria we are growing is growing on everything in our tank.
Everything besides the substrate is in the tank. The ammonia is down from the last few days an is at 0.25. i understand it might have set it back.

whats the point of the Carbon filter ? it said it should last 3 - 4 weeks an it lasted just under 2.
 
mattgirl
Member
R3licx said:
Everything besides the substrate is in the tank. The ammonia is down from the last few days an is at 0.25. i understand it might have set it back.
I was just giving a reason as to why its taking longer to see any kind of change with the water.

whats the point of the Carbon filter ? it said it should last 3 - 4 weeks an it lasted just under 2.
As far as I am concerned there is no point to running a carbon filter except for the reasons I posted. Maybe I am just not the trusting kind when it comes to spending hard earned money but the only reason I can see for it to be there is carbon breaks down and clogs cartridges. Most HOB and other filters come with cartridges that have carbon in them. The sooner it clogs up the sooner we will have to buy more to replace the clogged one.

The sooner we move on from these expensive cartridges the more money we will have to spend on other things for our tanks. If your power filter needs filter media look into adding a piece of sponge in place of the carbon filter.
 
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R3licx
Member
mattgirl said:
I was just giving a reason as to why its taking longer to see any kind of change with the water.


As far as I am concerned there is no point to running a carbon filter except for the reasons I posted. Maybe I am just not the trusting kind when it comes to spending hard earned money but the only reason I can see for it to be there is carbon breaks down and clogs cartridges. Most HOB and other filters come with cartridges that have carbon in them. The sooner it clogs up the sooner we will have to buy more to replace the clogged one.

The sooner we move on from these expensive cartridges the more money we will have to spend on other things for our tanks. If your power filter needs filter media look into adding a piece of sponge in place of the carbon filter.
When i cleans all of the gravel substrate so much stuff was inside it. i was able to clean all that out of the tank. is it possible to have to much filtration in a tank ? i somehow think the carbon filter an the sponge filter where acting against themselfs. I could be wrong
 
mattgirl
Member
R3licx said:
When i cleans all of the gravel substrate so much stuff was inside it. i was able to clean all that out of the tank. is it possible to have to much filtration in a tank ? i somehow think the carbon filter an the sponge filter where acting against themselfs. I could be wrong
I don't believe it is possible to have too much filtration. Too much water movement is possible if it is affecting the fish but never too much filtration. They wouldn't have been working against each other. Each will be a place for bacteria to grow. If you are using and having to replace the carbon filter, if that is the only media in the power filter then it isn't helping hold bacteria. You are tossing the bacteria each time your replace the carbon filter.

While cycling this tank you may want to just vacuum part of the gravel with each water change. We want to give the bacteria plenty of time to get firmly attached.
 
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R3licx
Member
Todays update - Ammonia is still at 0.25 - 0.50 ppm. Things are looking good as nothing is spiking so far.
 
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R3licx
Member
Update - 0.25 - 0.50 ammonia

No changes.
 
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R3licx
Member
Todays update

Water is still holding at a 0.25-0.50 ammonia. No Nitrites to be seen an no nitrates.

Sad news today. One of the Thai Micro crabs passed away at night. Hes was one of the smaller ones an i saw his body under the little bridge we have. The fish tried to eat him but was able to get him out of there. Sad day in the tank. down to i think 3 micro crabs out of the 6 i got. ( the other 2 small ones have not been seen sense they where put in. They where really smalls. )
 
mattgirl
Member
R3licx said:
Todays update

Water is still holding at a 0.25-0.50 ammonia. No Nitrites to be seen an no nitrates.

Sad news today. One of the Thai Micro crabs passed away at night. Hes was one of the smaller ones an i saw his body under the little bridge we have. The fish tried to eat him but was able to get him out of there. Sad day in the tank. down to i think 3 micro crabs out of the 6 i got. ( the other 2 small ones have not been seen sense they where put in. They where really smalls. )
I am not concerned about no nitrites. You did see some at one point. Have you changed any water since you added the angelsplus sponge? If not then I would have expected some nitrates by now if the bacteria on it was viable. Are you shaking bottle number 2 really really well and then shaking the test tube for a full minute after adding drops from both bottles. We want to be sure we break up the sediment in the bottom of bottle #2.

See if shaking your ammonia testing solution bottles will make a difference in your ammonia readings. It has for some folks.

I am sorry you lost one of your little guys .
 
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R3licx
Member
mattgirl said:
I am not concerned about no nitrites. You did see some at one point. Have you changed any water since you added the angelsplus sponge? If not then I would have expected some nitrates by now if the bacteria on it was viable. Are you shaking bottle number 2 really really well and then shaking the test tube for a full minute after adding drops from both bottles. We want to be sure we break up the sediment in the bottom of bottle #2.

See if shaking your ammonia testing solution bottles will make a difference in your ammonia readings. It has for some folks.

I am sorry you lost one of your little guys .
I did a 50% water change twice after having the sponge installed. Im also questioning the API Master test kit as i put in a " Seachem Ammonia Alert " in the tank and im well within safe levels. And yes i have a count down on my phone for 1 minute. I can retest the Nitrates if you want.
 
mattgirl
Member
R3licx said:
I did a 50% water change twice after having the sponge installed. Im also questioning the API Master test kit as i put in a " Seachem Ammonia Alert " in the tank and im well within safe levels. And yes i have a count down on my phone for 1 minute. I can retest the Nitrates if you want.
The thing is, the liquid test picks up both ammonium and ammonia. The alert only detects ammonia. If you are running the test correctly there is no need to run it again. It is very possible the water changes are keeping the nitrate level down to undetectable levels.
 
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R3licx
Member
Todays update, Ammonia is at 0.50ppm will be doing a water change ether tonight or tomorrow. its been atlest 4 days sense i did a water change.

A Few days ago i added 2 mollys to the tank. And now i think i have a baby swimming around in the tank. Little Black Tadpol looking like thing. Yay ?
 
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R3licx
Member
Todays update

Ammonia - 0.25ppm
Did a water change of 25% Water is still clear as crystal.
 
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R3licx
Member
Sorry about missing yesterdays update.

Yesterday the Ammonia was 0.1ppm. And today it is 0.1ppm. Tonight i will be doing another water change. No sign of Nitrites or Nitrates.
 
mattgirl
Member
R3licx said:
Sorry about missing yesterdays update.

Yesterday the Ammonia was 0.1ppm. And today it is 0.1ppm. Tonight i will be doing another water change. No sign of Nitrites or Nitrates.
Not a problem If it is 1ppm do the water change. If it is actually 0.1ppm skip the water change. since you added the seeded sponge I wouldn't be concerned about no nitrites. You may be keeping the nitrates so low the test can't detect them.
 
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R3licx
Member
mattgirl said:
Not a problem If it is 1ppm do the water change. If it is actually 0.1ppm skip the water change. since you added the seeded sponge I wouldn't be concerned about no nitrites. You may be keeping the nitrates so low the test can't detect them.
It seems as though the ammonia is never getting above 1 ppm even if left over night. Nitrites an Nitrates have been both 0 sense the start of all this. Would you say we are on the right path? the fish seem to be just fine. No signs of stress or anything just happily swiming an eatting.
 
mattgirl
Member
R3licx said:
It seems as though the ammonia is never getting above 1 ppm even if left over night. Nitrites an Nitrates have been both 0 sense the start of all this. Would you say we are on the right path? the fish seem to be just fine. No signs of stress or anything just happily swiming an eatting.
Refresh my memory. Is your pH staying up to or over 7? If it is then I would have to say it is just a matter of waiting, watching and water changes as needed.
 
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R3licx
Member
mattgirl said:
Refresh my memory. Is your pH staying up to or over 7? If it is then I would have to say it is just a matter of waiting, watching and water changes as needed.
yes ph has remained at 7
 
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R3licx
Member
Hello friends !

Good news, the tank has now reached 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and 1 Nitrates. Seems like everything is good. This thread il update periodically. Or if i start another tank eventually.

mattgirl Thank you for all the help an info
 
mattgirl
Member
R3licx said:
Hello friends !

Good news, the tank has now reached 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and 1 Nitrates. Seems like everything is good. This thread il update periodically. Or if i start another tank eventually.

mattgirl Thank you for all the help an info
Wonderful news. Thank you for all the updates along the way and 'specially this one. I love reading happy endings.
 
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R3licx
Member
Update !!!

Ok so, after doing some research i decided to bite the bullet and and spend some money on a new active sponge filter from Angelspus. Why ? because i fet as tho one active sponge was not gonna be enough so i wanted another :D. Also more surface agitation from the bubbles. Anyways.

This sponge was quite different. In the Video that Angelsplus put out about there active filters, they said the filter will come with " Gunky " water. Which the first filter did not. The water was clear and the filter almost looked new with nothing inside the sponge. Fast forward to today this is the total opposite. The bag containing the sponge had a brownish murky water in it with the sponge actually having stuff inside it. I am wondering if i had gotten sent the first time a none active sponge ( Hence why it took so long to see any results. ) I did contact Angelsplus back a few days after getting the first filter to see if there was something i missed but they acted as tho i had done something wrong. ( i dont see how you can mess up putting a sponge filter in a tank but hey what ever ). It is what it is but if you decide to get a sponge filter with them, make sure to contact them an be assertive if the product isnt matching what they describe.


End of update.

Also sidenote, the fish just finished eating so i know the substrate has stuff on it :p
 
mattgirl
Member
Thank you for the update. It might be a good idea for folks to take a photo of the filter they receive before opening the bag. If the water in the bag looks like nothing but clear water maybe the folks there at angelsplus would be inclined to see why it is. It does sound like you might have gotten a dud with the first one.
 
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R3licx
Member
Sad news today.

The last few days I've been finding bits an pieces of shrimp in the tank. And this morning i found 2 full dead shrimp. I checked my levels an my Ammonia and Nitrites where booming. Ph was also dropped from 7 to 6. No Nitrates. After observation the Panda Molies have gone on a rampage with the shrimp. I am facing a few options.

1. Euthanize to save the rest of the shrimp population. ( i am not comfortable with this )
2. Try to see if the pet store will take them back after the return time frame.
3. Let it happen. ( i am also not comfortable with this )

The tank has also gotten very cloudy over night, i did what i could an spent the last 2 hours doing a water change. Id say maybe 60% - 65% to the tank. Waiting 5 mins in-between taking water out to get any thing on the sand substrate. I took out all the décor an put them in a bag with some water. At the end of that i put them back in with the same water. I also "cleaned " the sponge filters by using the aquarium water an squeezing the sponges in the bucket to let all the gunk out. First sponge was completely brown water. Second one didn't need it.

I am honestly alittle depressed. Everything was going so well. Water changes every 3 days. Not over feeding. I had some really beautiful red / yellow / blue shrimp and almost all of them are gone :(

Lets hope for better days.
 
mattgirl
Member
I am so sorry to hear this. It seems some fish just aren't good tank mates for shrimp. That does seem to be the case here.

What do you mean by saying the Ammonia and Nitrites where booming? To be perfectly honest I would have expected you to be seeing both at zero by now specially after adding the seeded sponges.

I'm not sure I would have cleaned the sponges just yet but too late for that. We really need to leave the bacteria undisturbed while it is trying to get well established. Normally the cloudy in cloudy water can't be changed away. We really have to let it run its course. Eventually it will clear up.
 
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R3licx
Member
mattgirl said:
I am so sorry to hear this. It seems some fish just aren't good tank mates for shrimp. That does seem to be the case here.

What do you mean by saying the Ammonia and Nitrites where booming? To be perfectly honest I would have expected you to be seeing both at zero by now specially after adding the seeded sponges.

I'm not sure I would have cleaned the sponges just yet but too late for that. We really need to leave the bacteria undisturbed while it is trying to get well established. Normally the cloudy in cloudy water can't be changed away. We really have to let it run its course. Eventually it will clear up.
Ammonia was i wanna say 4.0ppm
Nitrites where 1.0ppm
Nitrates where 0ppm

The first sponge was getting clogged with gunk. I didn't really know what to do but i read you should clean it that way :(

One of my decorations where holding alot of old pellets an stuff inside the lip of them. so i removed that. It seems the corrys where pushing the algie pellets under it.
 
Betta'sAnonymous
Member
R3licx said:
Ammonia was i wanna say 4.0ppm
Nitrites where 1.0ppm
Nitrates where 0ppm

The first sponge was getting clogged with gunk. I didn't really know what to do but i read you should clean it that way :(

One of my decorations where holding alot of old pellets an stuff inside the lip of them. so i removed that. It seems the corrys where pushing the algie pellets under it.
That does happen. Just had to take care of a similar situation with driftwood doing the same type of thing. As far as what to do about the mollies, that is your decision. I find they tend to be grade A jerks in my experiences with them. If you want shrimp, maybe wait til you have more stuff grown for them to hide, like maybe ground-cover stuff?
 
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R3licx
Member
Betta'sAnonymous said:
That does happen. Just had to take care of a similar situation with driftwood doing the same type of thing. As far as what to do about the mollies, that is your decision. I find they tend to be grade A jerks in my experiences with them. If you want shrimp, maybe wait til you have more stuff grown for them to hide, like maybe ground-cover stuff?
I have only fake plants an drift wood in there. i just redistributed all of the stuff so theres maybe more places to hide. Before i had all the stuff on one side to keep an open feeding area. I have a feeling thats where the smaller shrimp where getting picked off.
 
mattgirl
Member
R3licx said:
Ammonia was i wanna say 4.0ppm
Nitrites where 1.0ppm
Nitrates where 0ppm

The first sponge was getting clogged with gunk. I didn't really know what to do but i read you should clean it that way :(

One of my decorations where holding alot of old pellets an stuff inside the lip of them. so i removed that. It seems the corrys where pushing the algie pellets under it.
This is how sponge filters are cleaned but until the tank is fully cycled it is better not to clean them unless it is absolutely necessary. Unless you are way overfeeding the tank I can't imagine these 2 sponge filters will have needed cleaning yet. If a lot of food is building up on them cut way back on the amount of food you are putting in the tank.

I really wouldn't get any more shrimp until we finally get this tank stabilized. They don't do well at all when there is ammonia and/or nitrites in the tank.

The mollies can be real brats and could have been killing the shrimp or may have been taking advantage of dead or dying shrimp.

You may need to also cut way back on the food you are feeding the corys. If it is building up in the bottom they are being fed too much.

Hopefully the big water change got the ammonia down to much safer levels. Is it possible you are getting false readings with your tests? I was talking to a young lady just this morning about the ammonia readings in her tanks. There should have been no ammonia in her tanks but the test was telling her it was there. She purchased a new ammonia test and discovered there was none there.
 
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R3licx
Member
mattgirl said:
This is how sponge filters are cleaned but until the tank is fully cycled it is better not to clean them unless it is absolutely necessary. Unless you are way overfeeding the tank I can't imagine these 2 sponge filters will have needed cleaning yet. If a lot of food is building up on them cut way back on the amount of food you are putting in the tank.

I really wouldn't get any more shrimp until we finally get this tank stabilized. They don't do well at all when there is ammonia and/or nitrites in the tank.

The mollies can be real brats and could have been killing the shrimp or may have been taking advantage of dead or dying shrimp.

You may need to also cut way back on the food you are feeding the corys. If it is building up in the bottom they are being fed too much.

Hopefully the big water change got the ammonia down to much safer levels. Is it possible you are getting false readings with your tests? I was talking to a young lady just this morning about the ammonia readings in her tanks. There should have been no ammonia in her tanks but the test was telling her it was there. She purchased a new ammonia test and discovered there was none there.
Im not sure, i purchased a feeding dish for that exact reason with the corys. This way it is contained. I will be honest. In the Morning i would drop 2 pellets in. and at night 1 pellet. In the middle of the day i would put in some fish flakes. I wasn't seeing any left after 5 - 10 mins so i figured everything was ok. Perhaps i was over feeding. Im not sure how much to be feeding the tank tbh. Most of the time the shrimp that are in there are always on the sponge picking at stuff.

As for the false reedings. Ive been thinking the whole test kit has been off sense the start. But idk. il test again in the morning and hopefully things are back on track. One can hope
 
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R3licx
Member
I wanted to wait a day before posting. seems the big water change has calmed things down. No more shirmp deaths. Also the new feeding dish has kept the sand from being littered with food. Will update again if things change.
 
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R3licx
Member
Ive made the decision a few days ago to take out 2 mollies. While a very hard decision to make it had to be done. There are still 5 Mollies in the tank which i do not want to go through the same decision i made for the other too.

On a brighter note, ive added 3 plants to the tank along with some small tetra to replace the 2 mollies. The only fish that will be added to the tank from here on out will be the Black Skirt tetra. I like Mollies collors an really wanted them to work out but they are too dirty for my liking.

Also the shrimp are surviving, ive added some more hidey holes for them an the new plants seem to be doing the trick to hide them, the ammonia lvls in the tank are back to where they should be.
 
mattgirl
Member
Sometimes we have to make the hard decisions and then follow through with them when something isn't working out in our tanks. Back when I had mollies one had to be removed. This little guy was a holy terror to all the other fish but even more so to my elderly columbian tetra. I insist on my tanks being peaceful. This one was disrupting the peace.
 
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R3licx
Member
mattgirl said:
Sometimes we have to make the hard decisions and then follow through with them when something isn't working out in our tanks. Back when I had mollies one had to be removed. This little guy was a holy terror to all the other fish but even more so to my elderly columbian tetra. I insist on my tanks being peaceful. This one was disrupting the peace.
im not gonna lie... i still feel horrible for doing it. but i did it as quickly as possible. i couldnt bring my self to do it to the others.
 

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