240 Gallon Co2 Needed Help

[yoboyjuice]

I have 240 gallon tank I want to add co2 to. How do I pick a system? Where do I find cheap and effective co2 tank, regulator, defused/reactor, bubble counter,solenoid etc.

There’s just too many options online. I see 100s of results on amazon and other websites.

I want to be able to control the ph and co2 and I want a large tank I only have to refill every couple months so probably 10-20 lbs. I just need a starting point

I don’t want diy I want high quality but affordable.

My budget is absolute max 500$ but I’d prefer cheaper.

Also what it’s the best way to diffuse it?

Do I use a diffuser or reactor? Do I inject it into the return pump?

Anyone with co2 in a large tank how do you do it?

Any suggestions are appreciated,
Thank you,
Austin

coralbandit Drummindot
jojomo91
@stanleyc
Dave125g
aniroc
mohican

I know some of you have/had big tanks, any ideas

 

[coralbandit]

I bought my tank re conditioned with new certs from my welding supply for around $70.
I don't run co2 now but do have one of the best regs made IMO.

Not cheap but it is digitally controlled so no varience and no end of tank dump.
I use Istas mix max reactor in my sump to introduce the co2..

 

[Dave125g]

Your gonna want a reactor. Your also gonna want a regulator with that can be plugged into a timer.
I use the large instamax mixer. I really need 2 for my tank. And my tank is half your size. The whole system cost me about 170.00 bucks. Not cheap, but after that it only cost me 10 bucks every 3 weeks for a refill. Totally worth it.
Sorry, yea I got everything from ebay.

 

[aniroc]

I purchased my CO2 system from Greenleafaquarium. I spent over $700. My tank is 180 gallon and I inject via atomic diffusers into return hoses of both canister filters that service that tank. The system has a dual manifold, each with it's own needle valve and bubble counter.
I don't care about pH fluctuation but I have a drop checker.

A reactor is more efficient indeed. But CO2 itself is cheap. Injecting it safely and accurately is expensive. A 10lb cylinder last me over 6 months and costs $30 (canadian).

 

[Wraithen]

I purchased my CO2 system from Greenleafaquarium. I spent over $700. My tank is 180 gallon and I inject via atomic diffusers into return hoses of both canister filters that service that tank. The system has a dual manifold, each with it's own needle valve and bubble counter.
I don't care about pH fluctuation but I have a drop checker.

A reactor is more efficient indeed. But CO2 itself is cheap. Injecting it safely and accurately is expensive. A 10lb cylinder last me over 6 months and costs $30 (canadian).

Dont think ive heard of using a diffuser inline with the canister. How do you like it? I'm planning on injecting my 180 as well.

 

[yoboyjuice]

I can get a tank for around 100 or less and diffusers are like 40 I have hosing. How much more is it for a reactor and are there any good regulators for 300 or less

 

[aniroc]

Dont think ive heard of using a diffuser inline with the canister. How do you like it? I'm planning on injecting my 180 as well.

I use Atomic CO2 Diffuser-inline-12/16mm. This size fits the return hose of the Eheim classic 600 (2217). Other canisters models might need a different size, such as 16/22mm. If the return hose is not rubbery (like in Fluval), you risk water leak and this type of diffuser is not suitable.
To install it, somewhere along the way, you need to cut the hose and use the diffuser as a link. Tight fitting is essential. The diffuser itself is like a cylinder tube. CO2 comes from outside and is forced to pass the ceramic material into the inner space where the tank water flows, bringing very fine bubbles of CO2 along, straight into the tank.

Do I like it? Not really....It tends to clog with dirt and algae and you need a special acidic solution to clean it, you cannot touch it in any way. It also needs a high pressure (around 40 psi) to work so the regulator must be able to deliver it. Everything along the line should withstand that pressure: special airline and sturdy bubble counter (I had the bubble counter top detached several times and you can't just glue it with silicone)....I used it for more than 5 years now. Every time you detach it from the hose, you risk a leak when you re-install it. Sometimes you need to shorten the hose's ends for a better fit.
However, it is efficient and I can easily overdose if I am not careful. In fact, I did overdose several times but did not lose a soul...

 

[coralbandit]

I used a $75 Milwaulkee for a couple years without issue.
If you plan on splitting the co2 do not scrimp on the needle valves.

 

[Dave125g]

A drop checker is good, but here's the thing. A drop checker can't tell you what your CO2 level is, it only lets you know if your over dosing. Get an accuret digital ph meter, and a kh tester. That way you know if your under dosing.

Sorry for the back to back posts, but for some reason it wouldn't let me upload this chart.

 

[aniroc]

The chart is flawed and it has limitations. Two main issues: it assumes that all the acidity in the tank is due to Carbonic acid (CO2 in water). Also that the only buffer in the tank is carbonate/bicarbonate (KH), again....not entirely true

 

[Dave125g]

The chart is flawed and it has limitations. Two main issues: it assumes that all the acidity in the tank is due to Carbonic acid (CO2 in water). Also that the only buffer in the tank is carbonate/bicarbonate (KH), again....not entirely true

Very true but it's still better then just guessing.

 

[yoboyjuice]

I used the info you guys provided and and shared it with my dad. Between the 2 of us we picked the parts we thought would work best on Amazon and heres what we got. Its not to late to cancel so fI any one has bad experiences with these products or know of a good alternative we're all ears.

We decided to buy a canister filter as it was on sale for 70$. We bought a
"Cascade CCF3UL Canister Filter, 100 Gallon, 265gph" I'll try to link to each product.


We currently have a UV Light that has an intake and outtake in the sump. Our plan in to remove the pump to that. We will have the intake of the UV Light go in the sump. Then the Outtake will connect to the intake of the canister filter. The pump in the canister is what will be sucking air through the UV light.
Next we will put a break in the output of the canister filter and put an inline CO2 Reactor. This will have the out put hose of the canister filter go into it, then the hose will continue to go up into the top tank. Hopefully I worded that correctly.
Here is the model we picked called "Gulfstream Tropical AGU00529 Ista Max Mix Co2 Reactor for Aquarium, Large"
Link:

The CO2 Tank We chose is a 5 Lbs Aluminum tank called "Zebra DNA Luxfer L6X Aluminum CO2 Tanks with CGA320 on/off Valve (Natural, 5 LB)"
Link:
We are worried a 10 Lbs tank won't fit in the stand. If we decide to set up another aquarium then we will likely upgrade to a 10 lbs or if we just decide to. at the welding store it costs 20$ to fill a 5lbs and 26$ to fill a 10lbs but they won't always have 10lbs ready to exchange as they don't have as many.

For the Regulator this is the part I'm most concerned about. we picked "Fzone CO2 Regulator Aquarium Big Dual Gauge Display with Bubble Counter and Check Valve w/Solenoid 110V Fits Standard US Tanks Easy to Adjust CO2 Level Comes w/Tools"
Link:
This product is only 63$ so I am very skeptical but all the reviews are good. However there are not too many reviews. I think It might just be a new product but I'm not sure. If anyone has any ideas for one around 150$ or less I might buy that instead.
This regulator comes with a solenoid, bubble counter, and Check valve but I want to buy a better/extra check valve as well. any ideas?
We also bought 16 ft of Aquarek Co2 proof tubing
Link:
We also bought an "Eldon James C10-8BN Automotive Black Nylon Reduction Coupler, 5/8" Hose Barb to 1/2" Hose Barb (Pack of 10)"
Link:

Finally We bought a "Milwaukee pH Controller" for 125$
Link:
The ideas here is that the solenoid Will be plugged in with the lights so it is only turn on when the light are on. Additionally it will be plugged into the Ph controller so as the Ph drops the Co2 will turn off an when the Ph rises the Co2 will turn on, but only if the lights are on.
The Ph controller is a bit pricey but my dad wants to try it out. I think he wants to have Discus eventually and being able to keep a stable low Ph could be good.

Review: water goes in UV light, then canister filter, then is injected with Co2 with inline reactor and is pumped into top tank.
Co2 from tank is regulated so it can only release if lights are on, and Ph is not too low.


My biggest concern is the regulator. There are just too many options and this one seems high quality and low cost, but I'm worried its too good to be true. Any thoughts on anything? Do not feel bad leaving Long or short posts, I will read all ideas and concerns,
Also thank you Dave125g aniroc coralbandit and Wraithen for the ideas.
Heres a link to my current thread on the tank Question - Breeding And Raising Rams And My 240g Tank

and heres a link to me setting up the tank and all my other equipment
240 Gallon Planted Freshwater Tank Build

If you have any questions for me, please ask away.
Sorry my post is so long, I just want to be thorough and make sure I don't miss anything.
Thank you for any suggestions,
Austin

 

[Wraithen]

I don't know for sure, but I suspect your reactor will not be able to handle the amount of co2 you will need to inject. I would do a homemade reactor unless you're planning on basically turning that new canister into a giant reactor.

 

[yoboyjuice]

Wraithen
The canister would just be for the pump and add more filtration. The reactor would be placed after the canister so would not be affected by it. Are you saying I should put it before so the co2 goes int the canister?
Also what part would fail? I’m not doubting In any way I just don’t understand? The water would just flow through too fast?

 

[coralbandit]

The controller was a great idea .
I failed to mention I used one .
Eliminates many problems .

 

[yoboyjuice]

coralbandit Do you remember what brand you used and where you bought it?

 

[coralbandit]

I used a Milwaukee also .
I got mine in a 120 gallon giveaway where a gentleman and his wife were retiring and he just wanted someone to take his tank and all his equipment so they could travel to Florida every winter .
I had to go to NJ [with a 16 foot trailer in tow] , but he handed me a folder with all the receipts and manuals for EVERYTHING he had bought. It added up to aprox ;$12 ,000.00 !
No Joke !

 

[yoboyjuice]

That’s very lucky. 12k of aquarium supplies would be nice

 

[Wraithen]

Wraithen
The canister would just be for the pump and add more filtration. The reactor would be placed after the canister so would not be affected by it. Are you saying I should put it before so the co2 goes int the canister?
Also what part would fail? I’m not doubting In any way I just don’t understand? The water would just flow through too fast?

I would keep the reactor after the canister. Nothing would cause anything to fail, but Ive heard that those reactors aren't so great for tanks over 100g. Its just that they aren't big enough to completely dissolve the co2 so you end up with bubbles coming out of your outflow. You can make a huge reactor for very little money out of pvc. Its all about contact time with reactors.

 

[jojomo91]

I was tagged in this thread so I'll share my setup. I have a 20lb cylinder which was about $100. I use the
GLA GRO-1 Aquarium CO2 Regulator which I believe was $200. I also use the GLA 80mm atomic diffuser which was $50. Got a drop checker from Amazon for around $35.

 

[aniroc]

I believe that pH controller is an expensive toy. Regardless of what you see in the pictures, discus fish and plants don't mix well. One reason is the temperature. Discus need high temperature while most plants can tolerate up to 80F. Discus are very sensitive fish, not much about pH but for water hardness (GH), nitrates and phosphates. They need pristine water conditions and close monitoring. Ideally- no substrate until they reach a certain size.

Other than that, I agree with above post: the reactor is too small for the size of the tank. It can't keep up with the amount of CO2 you need to dissolve to have an impact in a tank that large. For example, in my 180 gallon I inject a total of 6 bubbles per second.

 

[Dave125g]

At 8 bps I'm under dosed in the125. My reactor can't handle any more then that. I am going to get a co2 line splitter another power head and another reactor. Currently the power head and reactor are in the tank, but when I double it I'm gonna run it externally.

 

[Wraithen]

At 8 bps I'm under dosed in the125. My reactor can't handle any more then that. I am going to get a co2 line splitter another power head and another reactor. Currently the power head and reactor are in the tank, but when I double it I'm gonna run it externally.

I can't find your thread anymore nor remember what regulator you're using. I'm about to build my own regulator and this type of idea is in the back of my mind. What you will need to do is get a manifold and another needle valve. This way you should be able to evenly split the pressure reliably.

 

[Dave125g]

I can't find your thread anymore nor remember what regulator you're using. I'm about to build my own regulator and this type of idea is in the back of my mind. What you will need to do is get a manifold and another needle valve. This way you should be able to evenly split the pressure reliably.

Thanks I was gonna wait until I get a 5 pound cylinder to split it up to 2 different reactors. My current paintball cylinder only lasts 3 weeks.

 

[yoboyjuice]

You guys were right, the reactor was too small. Any ideas on a larger reactor or how to make a large one?
Thanks,
Austin

 

[Dave125g]

You guys were right, the reactor was too small. Any ideas on a larger reactor or how to make a large one?
Thanks,
Austin

There's quite a few DIY reactors on Youtube. You could also go through a power head then right to your canister.

 

[yoboyjuice]

Dave125g so I put the in line diffuser before the canister filter? Is there any risk to doing this? I was worried a co2 bubble might form in the canister or something.

 

[Dave125g]

Dave125g so I put the in line diffuser before the canister filter? Is there any risk to doing this? I was worried a co2 bubble might form in the canister or something.

That's how you do it. Right into the canister input hose. A gas pocket build up can happen if you have too many BPS running.

 

[Wraithen]

You guys were right, the reactor was too small. Any ideas on a larger reactor or how to make a large one?
Thanks,
Austin

You could do a rex griggs reactor 2 to 3 foot tall. I'm going to be building one with clear pvc and a speece cone concept at the top. I don't think a cerges type build would move enough co2 for you. Ive seen pics of a rex griggs reactor build that dwarfed a 20 lb co2 tank.

 

[Dave125g]

You could do a rex griggs reactor 2 to 3 foot tall. I'm going to be building one with clear pvc and a speece cone concept at the top. I don't think a cerges type build would move enough co2 for you. Ive seen pics of a rex griggs reactor build that dwarfed a 20 lb co2 tank.

Nice. I gotta totally revamp my system. The large instamax is just not enough for a 125 gallon. I may just double it and set it up externally.

 

[RSababady]

I inject CO2 into my 125g tank. I will share some of things that I have learn't.

1. Don't control pH unless you are also measuring your CO2 level. I literally killed half my fish by suffocating them with CO2. The mistake I made was that I had my CO2 system connected to a computer controller that I use in my (very tech) tank with a pH sensor. So the system kept pumping CO2 into the tank trying to bring down the pH....... unfortunately the CO2 saturation level in the water went up and the fish suffocated
2. CO2 is required for plant growth. i.e. you need CO2 pumped into your tank when your plants are photosynthesising. Pumping CO2 into the tank when the lights are off during the night will only raise the CO2 saturation level of the water (which will bring the pH level down)
3. I have a home-made diffuser made out of an online water filter like
   . It is brilliant! I clean it once a year
4. I also wrote a post that you may find useful - it addresses the manner in way in which you identify when to have your tank refilled.

Hope you find this useful.

 

[yoboyjuice]

Wraithen I'm now looking at the rex griggs reactor and it seems interesting. I love reading info online about fish related things so I'll probably read everything there is to know about rex griggs reactors only to build the most basic one. It definitely seems like the best option so far but I haven't had a chance to look at RSababady 's diffuser.
Also RSababady about the Ph thing I have it set up so it won't increase co2 output just limit it. What I mean is the CO2 is limited first by the regulator. no matter how high the ph goes, the co2 won't release faster that whatever bubbles per second its set to. second the co2 is plugged into the light timer so again, even if the ph is really high, the co2 won't turn on unless the lights are on. Do you see any problems with this? I don't have any experience with pressurized co2 so there's a good chance I'm doing something wrong, but I figured I'd but as many limiting factors/precautions to prevent overdoing Co2.

Thank you guys for your help,
also Dave125g thank you,
Austin

 

[RSababady]

What I mean is the CO2 is limited first by the regulator. no matter how high the ph goes, the co2 won't release faster that whatever bubbles per second its set to.

That was my setup. Unfortunately, it is not a question of the CO2 flow rate, but how long one has the CO2 pumping into the tank and since my KH level had changed, the pH level became very high, so the CO2 was pumping full time
The one thing that you have done that is far smarter than my previous setup is that you have connected the system up to the light timer. That will limit the total CO2 saturation in the water, however I would strongly recommend to monitor the CO2 level. I wasn't doing that and therefore my CO2 concentration went up and I didn't read the signs properly.........

There is something known as the CO2 / O2 split - i.e. the layer of water in the tank with high CO2 (the bottom of the tank where CO2 accumulates) and high O2 at the top of the tank. ... apparently they don't mix unless there is high water flow. So the bottom dwellers die off first .....

The other thing to keep in account is the amount of surface water agitation. The higher the agitation, the more CO2 that will leave the water into the atmosphere........ so if you are pumping CO2 into a tank and have an air stone or a lot of surface agitation at the same time....you are waisting your time!

I hope this is useful

 

[Dave125g]

Mine is set up to the light timer as well. I have a digital PH meter I use. Once you get a good idea of the BPS you need to get the desired CO2 level, all you really need is to set your bubble counter correctly and your good to go. I still check my PH on occasion, but I no longer need to check it twice a day now.

 

[Wraithen]

Honestly in a 240 a bubble counter will be useless. A flowmeter will help if you can find one that measures on the super low end, but its not needed. You're going to have a steady stream of air coming out. Probably near 15 or more bps. Just go by what your drop checker says while you dial things up. Or monitor ph drop.

All of this is assuming you get a big enough reactor going. You may want to get a hold of tom barr and ask where he gets his speece cones from. He calls them something else though.

 

[yoboyjuice]

Wraithen wow I was just typing to ask about the bubble counter. It seems useless for my size tank already and I’m only dosin 1/2 of what I’m planning on doing. My tap is naturally 8.6 or higher and before co2 I got it down to 8 maybe. Now with co2 I’ve set it to keep my ph around 7 but usually stays between 7.1 and 7.3 so I suspect the reactor isn’t even big enough to drop it 1 ph. Eventually I want enough to drop it to 6.5 or even 6.
Also the buffer in the tank, the drift wood is losing effect slowly so my ph in tank will naturally be 8.5 and I’ll be able to use co2 to drop is 2 whole ph if I wanted. I am monitoring my ph and it’s never going too low. I know that’s not all that matters, you need to measure co2, gh, kh and I bought test kits for that but since I’m putting so little in I’m going off ph to determine how much is actually getting put in.
RSababady I thought surface agitation was good to let o2 into the water or something. I have a ton of surface area and surface agitation. Is that a bad thing?
I figured it would be better to have higher agitation and just dose a little more co2 to compensate that way I’ll have high co2 and o2. I’m still new at this so I’m probably missing something.

I’m still looking into the best way to build or buy a reactor. I just want one that I won’t have to replace later so I want to make it right.

Thank you all for your help I honestly would have such a hard time without your guys’ help

 

[Wraithen]

Wraithen wow I was just typing to ask about the bubble counter. It seems useless for my size tank already and I’m only dosin 1/2 of what I’m planning on doing. My tap is naturally 8.6 or higher and before co2 I got it down to 8 maybe. Now with co2 I’ve set it to keep my ph around 7 but usually stays between 7.1 and 7.3 so I suspect the reactor isn’t even big enough to drop it 1 ph. Eventually I want enough to drop it to 6.5 or even 6.
Also the buffer in the tank, the drift wood is losing effect slowly so my ph in tank will naturally be 8.5 and I’ll be able to use co2 to drop is 2 whole ph if I wanted. I am monitoring my ph and it’s never going too low. I know that’s not all that matters, you need to measure co2, gh, kh and I bought test kits for that but since I’m putting so little in I’m going off ph to determine how much is actually getting put in.
RSababady I thought surface agitation was good to let o2 into the water or something. I have a ton of surface area and surface agitation. Is that a bad thing?
I figured it would be better to have higher agitation and just dose a little more co2 to compensate that way I’ll have high co2 and o2. I’m still new at this so I’m probably missing something.

I’m still looking into the best way to build or buy a reactor. I just want one that I won’t have to replace later so I want to make it right.

Thank you all for your help I honestly would have such a hard time without your guys’ help

You don't want a ph drop more than 1.2. You should also stop messing with your ph. It gets complicated tracking no co2 ph vs co2 ph if you alter it. If you lose track you can gas your fish.

You're going to have to build your reactor. The people at barr report can help you decide final dimensions.

IRT surface agitation, it will bleed off some co2. Most people tend to minimize it during the day and increase it at night. Its up to you to decide, but ive read that oxygenated water stays higher and carbonic acid water tends to stay in the lower half.

Please keep us posted on this project as there are a few of us with huge tanks that you are paving the way for.

 

[fa4960]

Please keep us posted on this project as there are a few of us with huge tanks that you are paving the way for.

I second that.

I have put the following Cerges reactor on my list for future DYI projects:

 

[Dave125g]

Honestly in a 240 a bubble counter will be useless. A flowmeter will help if you can find one that measures on the super low end, but its not needed. You're going to have a steady stream of air coming out. Probably near 15 or more bps. Just go by what your drop checker says while you dial things up. Or monitor ph drop.

All of this is assuming you get a big enough reactor going. You may want to get a hold of tom barr and ask where he gets his speece cones from. He calls them something else though.

Good point. I'm at 8 BPS in the 125. It was tough to count that fast in 1 second. Bubbles per minute may be better here.
I just monitor PH drop it's best that way.

 

[jojomo91]

Honestly in a 240 a bubble counter will be useless. A flowmeter will help if you can find one that measures on the super low end, but its not needed. You're going to have a steady stream of air coming out. Probably near 15 or more bps. Just go by what your drop checker says while you dial things up. Or monitor ph drop.

All of this is assuming you get a big enough reactor going. You may want to get a hold of tom barr and ask where he gets his speece cones from. He calls them something else though.

I use a bubble counter in my 210 as mentioned above. Easy to take a glance and see if my rate is where I want it. Yes it's fast but its manageable.

 

[Wraithen]

I use a bubble counter in my 210 as mentioned above. Easy to take a glance and see if my rate is where I want it. Yes it's fast but its manageable.

How do you tell the difference between 15 bps and 18, especially at a glance?!

 

[jojomo91]

How do you tell the difference between 15 bps and 18, especially at a glance?!

I don't have it that high. I make sure my drop checker is green and that's at around 10 a second for me.

 

[KinderScout]

The regulator looks like a relatively cheap Chinese import - and It has a 110/240 volt solenoid. I bought similar to start - the solenoid failed after 5 months (luckily it failed shut) - it could also hum a fair bit as the voltage is high. I switched to a German made regulator from CO2Art for about 100 quid - it is easier to regulate, has a good reputation and has a low voltage solenoid so is quieter. I'd stay with what you have as some swear by them but research a better regulator now in case you need to get one in a hurry!

 

[Wraithen]

The regulator looks like a relatively cheap Chinese import - and It has a 110/240 volt solenoid. I bought similar to start - the solenoid failed after 5 months (luckily it failed shut) - it could also hum a fair bit as the voltage is high. I switched to a German made regulator from CO2Art for about 100 quid - it is easier to regulate, has a good reputation and has a low voltage solenoid so is quieter. I'd stay with what you have as some swear by them but research a better regulator now in case you need to get one in a hurry!

The clippard mouse uses less than .67 I believe. It is much more suited to our 8 hour open life cycle.

 

[KinderScout]

The clippard mouse uses less than .67 I believe. It is much more suited to our 8 hour open life cycle.

Ta - I'll look at those - what do you mean by an '8 hour open cycle' ? 8 hours open over 24?? We run ours about 18hrs per day to keep things stable - or have I missed the point?

 

[Wraithen]

Ta - I'll look at those - what do you mean by an '8 hour open cycle' ? 8 hours open over 24?? We run ours about 18hrs per day to keep things stable - or have I missed the point?

I meant since most of us use co2 for 8 hours. 18 hours is even more taxing on a solenoid. Its using electricity to hold that valve open that entire time. We use normally closed solenoids because that way they fail safe. Rather have no co2 than dead fish. Which brings up a nagging question...

What do you mean you run 18 hours a day to keep things stable? Your plants aren't using the co2 when the lights are off. That would keep co2 increasing until the water is saturated. If that is too high, you could be gassing fish.

 

[Dave125g]

Ta - I'll look at those - what do you mean by an '8 hour open cycle' ? 8 hours open over 24?? We run ours about 18hrs per day to keep things stable - or have I missed the point?

Your plant lights are on that long? The CO2 should be on 2 hours before the lights go on and off 1 hour before the lights go off. Otherwise CO2 levels will be unstable. Perhaps even deadly.

 

[KinderScout]

Lights come on at 5pm off at 3am - CO2 on at 5am and off at midnight. However the tank is in a room by a bay window and did get direct sunlight from sunrise until 11am - we cover the tank on that side now as had algae problems but the room still gets light during the day. We have assiduously kept an eye on CO2 levels - they don't go above about 30ppm they do lower for the morning as an airstone is on overnight. Drop checker checked too to make sure is green. The low voltage solenoid is lasting better than the 240v we had before which also failed shut. Don't worry - we have happy fish and shrimp. We do adjust the on-time for CO2 throughout the year too to account for shorter days.