20g tank, AquaClear 30 filter - Why Are My Neon Tetras Dying?

20g tank, AquaClear 30 filter
78 degrees F
A-0, Ni-0, Na-0, pH-7.6 (just tested)

As of 1:00 PM today I had:
7 Neon Tetra
2 Honey G
1 Highfin Platy
1 MM Platy

8 hours later only 4 Tetras remain living.
All the other fish seem fine.

Anyone know what could be going wrong for the Tetras?

 

Hello!

Has the tank cycled? Unless you tested your water right after you did a larger water change (and your tap has no nitrates), you *shouldn't* have 0 across the board.

And any external observations of the tetras before death?

 

Did they disappear or did you find the bodies? Any obvious marks on the fish or erratic behavior?

 

Did they disappear or did you find the bodies? Any obvious marks on the fish or erratic behavior?

2 disappeared.
1 suddenly died right in front of me but then disappeared.
I didn't notice any marks on him while he was dying.

Hello!

Has the tank cycled? Unless you tested your water right after you did a larger water change (and your tap has no nitrates), you *shouldn't* have 0 across the board.

And any external observations of the tetras before death?

Yes, the tank has been cycled for about a week.
I've had 0 across the board all week.

 

2 disappeared.
1 suddenly died right in front of me but then disappeared.
I didn't notice any marks on him while he was dying.

that's a lot of fish for only 1 week into the cycle! Did you use any booster bacteria?

Neon tetras are also generally sensitive to water quality more than other fish. Them dying might be an indicator of a hidden substance on the water. The fish disappearing however, is probably the other fish eating them when they are dead.

 

Have you tested your water? Are they nippin each other. Any angelfish or larger tetras in with them. There could be so many reasons. For your sake I do hope you find the right answers. Best of luck?

I have to stay away from those lobstas. Now one’s on my hat!

 

that's a lot of fish for only 1 week into the cycle! Did you use any booster bacteria?

Neon tetras are also generally sensitive to water quality more than other fish. Them dying might be an indicator of a hidden substance on the water. The fish disappearing however, is probably the other fish eating them when they are dead.

I used TSS and Prime
I'm guessing I added too many fish too soon :-/

 

I think so, it’s fine, but for now all you can do is let it cycle out maybe killing some of your fish. Or you could return all of the fish, cycle it properly, then bring them back.

Don’t worry about it, you should’ve seen the disaster of my first tank

 

Hi, keep doing plenty of water changes. Try 3 times 30% water changes starting today with an hour in-between.

Then 50% each day, perhaps more if fish are showing signs of stress.

Dilute down any harmful substances.

Water changes are fish's best friend. Remember to use something to neutralise chlorine and chloramine.

 

Yes, the tank has been cycled for about a week.
I've had 0 across the board all week.

I think your test results are wrong. How are you testing? You won't have 0 across the board in a cycled tank. And definitely not in a tank that has been only running for a week.


You should not be doing any water changes for 7 days minimum after adding TSS. If you have already done, you need to restart the process. I think your tank is still un-cycled and has high levels of ammonia and or nitrites. It's just that your current testing methodology is not detecting it correctly.

 

Neon tetras should be at a maximum temp of 75F.. just throwing that out there.. Not saying that's the reason their dying, but could factor in due to stress.. neons are extremely sensitive fish

 

I think your test results are wrong. How are you testing? You won't have 0 across the board in a cycled tank. And definitely not in a tank that has been only running for a week.


You should not be doing any water changes for 7 days minimum after adding TSS. If you have already done, you need to restart the process. I think your tank is still un-cycled and has high levels of ammonia and or nitrites. It's just that your current testing methodology is not detecting it correctly.

I’m using the API Master Test Kit
I thought I was doing it right (I followed the directions very carefully each time)

 

Ok first off neons are known to die off when first bought. Neons are also not good as first fish because of the die off. Yes his reading could be right. My tanks are zeros across and my tap is also zeros across. Everybody’s water is different. So to the op this happens fish die. Now how are the other fish? You added tss so follow its instructions. Please don’t do those 30% water changes. Not knowing what your source water conditions are. How old is the tank?

 

When nitrogen cycle is established the final stage is nitrites are converted to Nitrates. And those Nitrates don’t just evaporate. They need to be either taken out by the one who maintains the tank in the form of partial water changes or removed by other means. But 100% can not be removed by pwc of course. And if you are only doing a weekly water change just before the water change they will be usually in 20s or 30s or higher.

Another way to remove Nitrates are through plants. Again not 100%. So any fully cycled plan oughta have at least 5PPM Nitrates. And a tank that only started Cycling 7days ago if shows 0Nitrate means the cycle has not even started fully and the last stage is not started yet (the stage where nitrites are converted to Nitrates). That also means you would have high ammonia or nitrites at that time. Hence the request to retest. Hope you understand now.

 

Ok first off neons are known to die off when first bought. Neons are also not good as first fish because of the die off. Yes his reading could be right. My tanks are zeros across and my tap is also zeros across. Everybody’s water is different. So to the op this happens fish die. Now how are the other fish? You added tss so follow its instructions. Please don’t do those 30% water changes. Not knowing what your source water conditions are. How old is the tank?

The Honey Gs seem perfectly fine.
The Highfin Platy seems ok.
The MM Platy seems iffy.

The tank is 2 1/2 weeks old

When nitrogen cycle is established the final stage is nitrites are converted to Nitrates. And those Nitrates don’t just evaporate. They need to be either taken out by the one who maintains the tank in the form of partial water changes or removed by other means. But 100% can not be removed by pwc of course. And if you are only doing a weekly water change just before the water change they will be usually in 20s or 30s or higher.

Another way to remove Nitrates are through plants. Again not 100%. So any fully cycled plan oughta have at least 5PPM Nitrates. And a tank that only started Cycling 7days ago if shows 0Nitrate means the cycle has not even started fully and the last stage is not started yet (the stage where nitrites are converted to Nitrates). That also means you would have high ammonia or nitrites at that time. Hence the request to retest. Hope you understand now.

That makes sense. I just tested again and got A-0, Ni-0, Na-0, pH 7.6
Either I'm missing something on the instructions or ??

 

is this a new test kit or has it been sitting around awhile. I would definitely invest in a better testing system if you're still getting a row of 0's.

 

is this a new test kit or has it been sitting around awhile. I would definitely invest in a better testing system if you're still getting a row of 0's.

It's a brand new API Freshwater Master Test Kit

 

Hmmph! well that sucks. Hopefully you're just reading the instructions wrong so you don't have to by a new test kit. If it's new enough you could try returning it.

 

What was the ph of the store water for the neons? How new are they and how did you acclimated them to your water?

 

I'm 99% sure you would have an ammonia reading by now, especially with platys in your tank.

 

I'm sorry I need to clarify, has the tank been cycled for 2 1/2 weeks when you say 2 1/2 old, or you just started it FRESH 2 1/2 weeks ago

 

I think 2 1/2 weeks running 1 week cycled. Hey he’s new. Op now read how to do a fish in cycle.

 

Yes, the tank has been cycled for about a week.
I've had 0 across the board all week.

I'm sorry I need to clarify, has the tank been cycled for 2 1/2 weeks when you say 2 1/2 old, or you just started it FRESH 2 1/2 weeks ago

I hope putting these posts right next to each other clears things up Travis.

 

I hope putting these posts right next to each other clears things up Travis.

Must have missed it, thanks.

 

I'm sorry I need to clarify, has the tank been cycled for 2 1/2 weeks when you say 2 1/2 old, or you just started it FRESH 2 1/2 weeks ago

The tank has been cycled for about a week

What was the ph of the store water for the neons? How new are they and how did you acclimated them to your water?

I didn't test the store's pH.
1 neon died instantly going into the tank.
2 died the next day.
I acclimated them by putting the store bag into my tank's water for 20 minutes and I put TSS in the water before I put them in.

 

I'm thinking you might have had ph shock along with other things. My lfs kept his neons in ro water and I had to use his water to initially set up the tank. I had to acclimate them to hard water over months.

 

Still doesn't explain how can all 0 reading possible. Did you really really shake the Nitrate test? Like add 10 drops of Solution-1 then upside down mix for 30 seconds, while shaking the other solution2 bottle violently for at least a 30 seconds. Then add 10 drops of solution 2 and then shake the mixed concoction violently for another minute? Also all other tests, you should shake violently for 5-10seconds. And results should be read only after 5minutes.

 

Still doesn't explain how can all 0 reading possible. Did you really really shake the Nitrate test? Like add 10 drops of Solution-1 then upside down mix for 30 seconds, while shaking the other solution2 bottle violently for at least a 30 seconds. Then add 10 drops of solution 2 and then shake the mixed concoction violently for another minute? Also all other tests, you should shake violently for 5-10seconds. And results should be read only after 5minutes.

Yep. All that I believe.

 

I would say try to return the test kit. I'm 99.99999% sure that there are ammonia levels. The average is probably higher I just don't have enough room. It you still get 0 return.

 

Wow Ronj thank you I have shook the second bottle but never violently. I’ve never had a nitrate reading it’s always been 0 till yesterday. Yes I do have nitrates in my tank.

 

HI there. So if you use Seachem Prime and TSS+ too close together, then the bacteria won’t work. In fact using TSS+ and most dechlorinators will have the same issue. You must use them at least 24 hours apart for the bacteria to work.

You filled your tank, added fish, then added TSS+. If you did this all the same day, then this is where your problem started.

You said that you have been doing lots of water changes. This would be why your ammonia is low and possibly why you aren’t seeing nitrates.

My guess is that the water changes are keeping your water parameters down. But that you are not cycled.

What I would do is this. Don’t do any more water changes for the next 5 days. Instead just add Seachem Prime as a water treatment to protect your fish. You will add the full tank dose each day. That will be 2ml per day. You are using it as a detoxifier instead of dechlorinator. It is similar to how it works with a fish-in cycle. So it is perfectly safe to add it everyday. If you want to add a bottled bacteria during the 5 days, you certainly can. I don’t recommend TSS+ for this. Seachem Stability or API QuickStart would work better in this instance. Again totally up to you. If you want to wait the 5 days to decide if you are cycled first, that is perfectly acceptable too.

During this time, check your parameters every 24 hours. After 5 days you will know if your tank is cycled or not. You will either have ammonia, which will indicate no cycle at all, or you will have nitrates which will indicate that you are cycled.

As far as acclimation goes. You need to be sure to extend your acclimation process from now on. Neon tetras are in particular sensitive to tank conditions, so the longer acclimation the better. Do a YouTube search on drip acclimating. I personally acclimate my new stocking for 3-4 hours minimum, to prevent any sort of shock and death. pH isn’t the only issue, the amount of total dissolved solids can be an issue too. So a long slow acclimation period is better for that reason also.

Hope this has helped some. Good luck!

 

HI there. So if you use Seachem Prime and TSS+ too close together, then the bacteria won’t work. In fact using TSS+ and most dechlorinators will have the same issue. You must use them at least 24 hours apart for the bacteria to work.

You filled your tank, added fish, then added TSS+. If you did this all the same day, then this is where your problem started.

You said that you have been doing lots of water changes. This would be why your ammonia is low and possibly why you aren’t seeing nitrates.

My guess is that the water changes are keeping your water parameters down. But that you are not cycled.

What I would do is this. Don’t do any more water changes for the next 5 days. Instead just add Seachem Prime as a water treatment to protect your fish. You will add the full tank dose each day. That will be 2ml per day. You are using it as a detoxifier instead of dechlorinator. It is similar to how it works with a fish-in cycle. So it is perfectly safe to add it everyday. If you want to add a bottled bacteria during the 5 days, you certainly can. I don’t recommend TSS+ for this. Seachem Stability or API QuickStart would work better in this instance. Again totally up to you. If you want to wait the 5 days to decide if you are cycled first, that is perfectly acceptable too.

During this time, check your parameters every 24 hours. After 5 days you will know if your tank is cycled or not. You will either have ammonia, which will indicate no cycle at all, or you will have nitrates which will indicate that you are cycled.

As far as acclimation goes. You need to be sure to extend your acclimation process from now on. Neon tetras are in particular sensitive to tank conditions, so the longer acclimation the better. Do a YouTube search on drip acclimating. I personally acclimate my new stocking for 3-4 hours minimum, to prevent any sort of shock and death. pH isn’t the only issue, the amount of total dissolved solids can be an issue too. So a long slow acclimation period is better for that reason also.

Hope this has helped some. Good luck!

Thank you so much!
I just added 2ml of Prime, and I will do that for the next 5 days.
I also have TopFin ReadiStart. Should I add 20ml of that each day too? If yes, do I add it at the same time as Prime?

 

Thank you so much!
I just added 2ml of Prime, and I will do that for the next 5 days.
I also have TopFin ReadiStart. Should I add 20ml of that each day too? If yes, do I add it at the same time as Prime?

Yep. Add whatever the amount that bottle says. You can add the bacteria the same time as Prime. Tetra Safe Start is the only one you have to wait with.

 

have you tested your water for metals, neon tetras and other tetras are very sensitive to metal, if any of your tanks decor still had their stickers on them, the adhesive will poison them, also, how did you clean your tank before you set it up, any sodiums, or solvents, soaps, oils or acids can be the culprit, its best to clean your tank with only water and hydrogen peroxide, and only use a new cloth to clean it.

 

I left a sticker on one of my plants and I guess that may be the hidden reason they died now that you mention it. So, yes I agree.

 

I left a sticker on one of my plants and I guess that may be the hidden reason they died now that you mention it. So, yes I agree.

I doubt that one sticker would have killed all of your fish. It is more likely that they needed a longer acclimation period. If your tank water had some sort of poison from the sticker, all of your fish would have died, not just some of them.

Most dechlorinators do neutralize heavy metals, btw. So that usually isn’t an issue at all.

 

I left a sticker on one of my plants and I guess that may be the hidden reason they died now that you mention it. So, yes I agree.

one sticker, and only one sticker would not have been enough to kill all of your tetras, unless they were pecking at it and in my experience; that sticker would be hidden in the substrata.... so I'm assuming there is more to it than a single sticker, many stickers is a problem but one shouldn't be a problem, it would probably increase stress but not outright death.

does your water have any color hew when viewed from above?
what type of sub straight are you using?
and what type of mechanical filter and chem filter mediums are you using?
how often do yo preform maintenance?
and do you have any photos of your tetras so we can check for desiese/viruses/parasites?

 

Little confusion here op didn’t say he had sticker in tank. That was sacks.

 

Little confusion here op didn’t say he had sticker in tank. That was sacks.

ah, didnt catch that, thanks

 

Little confusion here op didn’t say he had sticker in tank. That was sacks.

ah, didnt catch that, thanks

Gahhhh I didn’t catch it either..